John Rogan ( MK Ultra Charles Manson)

Cheerful Spring2

Joe Rogan had an author on yesterday.  The book researched for twenty years and only came out recently. One of the best episodes i have listened to in 10 years. It's a long podcast near three hours, but it flows like a movie. 

His research uncovered new info, Charles Manson was a MK ultra CIA operative,  Jack Ruby (JFK event) psychiatrist involved in the CIA/ MK ultra mind control experiments. Robert Kennedy ( MK ultra)

He deliberated and revealed he discovering many new documents exposing Vincent bugliosi as a con man and swindler, who got corrupted by the higher ups. The stories about Vincent buglioi are incredible and some of it is shocking about his personal life.

Annd9

Took a chance and bought the book in Dublin airport last summer , fantastic read . It's called Chaos for anyone who doesn't listen to the podcast .

The Nal

Bugliosi was no angel clearly. The Helter Skelter stuff was a nice bow on the case for the jury but he was correct in his investigations.

Tom O'Neill though is a total laughing stock.

Cheerful Spring2

The Nal wrote: »

Bugliosi was no angel clearly. The Helter Skelter stuff was a nice bow on the case for the jury but he was correct in his investigations.

Tom O'Neill though is a total laughing stock.

You never let me down I was waiting for your comment, trashing the author!

Beat the **** out of his wife, he was an abuser. Court documents show that.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

You never let me down I was waiting for your comment, trashing the author!

Beat the **** out of his wife, he was an abuser. Court documents show that.

No they don't. It was his alleged mistress anyway. He was married to his wife for 60 years.

Theres also the allegation he was stalking the milkman who allegedly knocked up his wife. Bugliosi claims it was because he stole money from the house so he had him followed.

These came up when Bugliosi was running for DA. Brought up by his opponents campaign. Nothing that hasnt been written about for years by "free Charles Manson" fanboys.

For O'Neills book to have any credibility and for him to make money more importantly, he needs to discredit Bugliosi. Some of the claims O'Neill makes about the case are straight up lies and some are laughable.

Bugliosi. Tried 104 jury cases, only lost 1. Great prosecutor. Also wrote the best book about on the JFK assassination. You wouldn't like it. Full of provable fact and stuff.

All O'Neill is doing is rehashing old stories that have been knocking about for years. Another fraud. Have a read below. Its all years old. Apart from the MK ultra CIA operative stuff which is just very silly.

http://wvw.mansonblog.com/pdf/BUG_FILE.pdf

Cheerful Spring2

The Nal wrote: »

No they don't. It was his alleged mistress anyway. He was married to his wife for 60 years.

Theres also the allegation he was stalking the milkman who allegedly knocked up his wife. Bugliosi claims it was because he stole money from the house so he had him followed.

These came up when Bugliosi was running for DA. Brought up by his opponents campaign. Nothing that hasnt been written about for years by "free Charles Manson" fanboys.

For O'Neills book to have any credibility and for him to make money more importantly, he needs to discredit Bugliosi. Some of the claims O'Neill makes about the case are straight up lies and some are laughable.

Bugliosi. Tried 104 jury cases, only lost 1. Great prosecutor. Also wrote the best book about on the JFK assassination. You wouldn't like it. Full of provable fact and stuff.

All O'Neill is doing is rehashing old stories that have been knocking about for years. Another fraud. Have a read below. Its all years old. Apart from the MK ultra CIA operative stuff which is just very silly.

http://wvw.mansonblog.com/pdf/BUG_FILE.pdf

Twisting of facts you participate in. The court depositions showed mad Vincent thought the milkman had a relationship with his wife and was pursuing him to do a paternity test.
Yes he beat up the mistress bad. Your world believe abusers would never lay a hand on their partner?. A man who beats woman is lifelong abuser.

Rest of your post, your viewpoint. Vincent is a con man though.

Cheerful Spring2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

It's historical fact CIA (LSD mind control) experiments happened in the 60s. Victims were citizens.


quote
The scope of Project MKUltra was broad, with research undertaken at more than 80 institutions, including colleges and universities, hospitals, prisons, and pharmaceutical companies.[18] The CIA operated using front organizations, although sometimes top officials at these institutions were aware of the CIA's involvement.[1

What Charles Manson known for wild parties, LSD drugs, and murder, mind control of his followers.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Twisting of facts you participate in. The court depositions showed mad Vincent thought the milkman had a relationship with his wife and was pursuing him to do a paternity test.

This is addressed in the link I posted that you didn't read obviously.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Yes he beat up the mistress bad.

Quite the accusation. Any proof?

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Your world believe abusers would never lay a hand on their partner?. A man who beats woman is lifelong abuser.

Idiotic post. Even by your idiotic standards. Doesn't even make sense.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Rest of your post, your viewpoint. Vincent is a con man though.

Not my viewpoint. One of the most successful prosecutors in American criminal history. Lost 1 case out of 104. These are facts. I know you hate them.

Author of the biggest selling true crime book in history - Helter Skelter. Author of the most detailed book about the JFK assassination- Reclaiming History. Author of one of the best true crime books of the 90s - Outrage. Author of one of the best true crime books of the 00s - The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder.

But you watched something quickly on youtube so you know everything.

Cheerful Spring2

The Nal wrote: »

This is addressed in the link I posted that you didn't read obviously.



Quite the accusation. Any proof?



Idiotic post. Even by your idiotic standards. Doesn't even make sense.



Not my viewpoint. One of the most successful prosecutors in American criminal history. Lost 1 case out of 104. These are facts. I know you hate them.

Author of the biggest selling true crime book in history - Helter Skelter. Author of the most detailed book about the JFK assassination- Reclaiming History. Author of one of the best true crime books of the 90s - Outrage. Author of one of the best true crime books of the 00s - The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder.

But you watched something quickly on youtube so you know everything.

Listen to the podcast, he reveals how he knows this. He has the files and documentation belonging to the courts on his website. You must not realise Vincent family can sue him for making false allegations?

Cheerful Spring2

Nal if you listen to the podcast. 

Vincent paid a civil suit settlement to the Milkman and his wife. About (12,000 dollars) a lot of money back then to keep quiet.. Mr O Neill says he has the documentation now showing that.

Vincent was stalking this poor milkman for three years. He never went to the police to have the Milkman arrested for this alleged 300 dollar theft. He lied to the public and media, what happened.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Nal if you listen to the podcast. 

Vincent paid a civil suit settlement to the Milkman and his wife. About (12,000 dollars) a lot of money back then to keep quiet.. Mr O Neill says he has the documentation now showing that.

Vincent was stalking this poor milkman for three years. He never went to the police to have the Milkman arrested for this alleged 300 dollar theft. He lied to the public and media, what happened.

"Mr O Neill says he has the documentation now showing that."

You havent bothered to read the link I posted. All in there. Newspaper clippings, court documents etc. Everything that O'Neill has claimed to have recently discovered. Its a 45-50 year old story.

But hes trying to make a few quid from gullible people. And he seems to be succeeding!

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

It's historical fact CIA (LSD mind control) experiments happened in the 60s. Victims were citizens.


quote
The scope of Project MKUltra was broad, with research undertaken at more than 80 institutions, including colleges and universities, hospitals, prisons, and pharmaceutical companies.[18] The CIA operated using front organizations, although sometimes top officials at these institutions were aware of the CIA's involvement.[1

What Charles Manson known for wild parties, LSD drugs, and murder, mind control of his followers.

Yes thank you Captain Obvious. This is well known publicly available information. Netflix even did a documentary about it. Wormwood. So what?

Cheerful Spring2

The Nal wrote: »

"Mr O Neill says he has the documentation now showing that."

You havent bothered to read the link I posted. All in there. Newspaper clippings, court documents etc. Everything that O'Neill has claimed to have recently discovered. Its a 45-50 year old story.

But hes trying to make a few quid from gullible people. And he seems to be succeeding!



Yes thank you Captain Obvious. This is well known publicly available information. Netflix even did a documentary about it. Wormwood. So what?

Vincent is not a good person. You read the details and you nevertheless making posts defending him? 
Mr O Neill may have secured fresh photocopies from the courts ( did you think of that?) He doesn’t claim he was there first to find this information!
 
By the way, Mr O Neill does admit "Helter Skelter" is a well written book and most of the info in the book accurate.. He believes it was written with the help of others though!

Vincent and Mr O Neill had disagreements when O Neill alleged Vincent covered up Manson connections to a CIA MK ultra program.  There relationship then spiralled out of control and Mr O Neill speaks about what happened next on the Podcast. 

Mr O Neill book about the 60s  Charles Mansion life, the manson cult and the murders carried out on orders from Manson. Vincent is just part of the story as you know because he wrote a book about it.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Vincent is just part of the story as you know because he wrote a book about it.

Bugliosi was the prosecutor in the Manson case. It was the longest trial in American criminal history. Thats why he is part of the story. The book is about the case.

Heres where he talks about Bugliosi. Didn't have the balls to do it when Bugliosi was alive.

There is no proof that Bugliosi beat that women or that it was his mistress. Just allegations during a very nasty race for LA district attorney. But you seem so sure?

How gullible are you?

Cheerful Spring2

The Nal wrote: »

Bugliosi was the prosecutor in the Manson case. It was the longest trial in American criminal history. Thats why he is part of the story. The book is about the case.

Did he lie about the CIA connection, involvement with Manson?

Cheerful Spring2

The Nal wrote: »

Bugliosi was the prosecutor in the Manson case. It was the longest trial in American criminal history. Thats why he is part of the story. The book is about the case.

Heres where he talks about Bugliosi. Didn't have the balls to do it when Bugliosi was alive.

There is no proof that Bugliosi beat that women or that it was his mistress. Just allegations during a very nasty race for LA district attorney. But you seem so sure?

How gullible are you?

Vincent paid the Milkman and his wife 12,000 dollars, to keep quiet about the 300 dollar theft the Milkman did?
Wrong Mr O Neill spoke with two policemen involved in the case, and they admit to him, they believe Vincent threatened her life to change the story. She later admitted to people thats what happened. Police saw him in the house, but they couldn't do anything when she changed her confession.
This woman went to the police station, the night he beat her up, they saw.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Did he lie about the CIA connection, involvement with Manson?

There is nothing to suggest that there was a CIA connection, involvement with Manson. Even O'Neill admits he can't link them. It barely qualifies as circumstantial evidence. Speculative shallow stuff. He just trying to earn a few quid after 20 years.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Vincent paid the Milkman and his wife 12,000 dollars, to keep quiet about the 300 dollar theft the Milkman did?
Wrong Mr O Neill spoke with two policemen involved in the case, and they admit to him, they believe Vincent threatened her life to change the story. She later admitted to people thats what happened. Police saw him in the house, but they couldn't do anything when she changed her confession.
This woman went to the police station, the night he beat her up, they saw.

Yep and despite the fact that she had been severely beaten and repeatedly punched in the face, the only injury she had was a small bruise above her eye. Odd one that.

Cheerful Spring2

The Nal wrote: »

There is nothing to suggest that there was a CIA connection, involvement with Manson. Even O'Neill admits he can't link them. It barely qualifies as circumstantial evidence. Speculative shallow stuff. He just trying to earn a few quid after 20 years.



Yep and despite the fact that she had been severely beaten and repeatedly punched in the face, the only injury she had was a small bruise above her eye. Odd one that.

The Lies coming out of you is amazing. He found plenty of documentation and files Manson was protected, and left off with serious crimes, before the Hollywood high profile killings started. He has documentation the CIA infiltrated the hippy community. He found Manson parole file and found Manson ( had a secret immunity from prosecution for previous murders) Sounds lot like Epstein to me. There lot more to this and have to watch the interview again to remember every detail.

Now you feeling sorry for an abuser of women

The Nal

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

The Lies coming out of you is amazing. He found plenty of documentation and files Manson was protected, and left off with serious crimes, before the Hollywood high profile killings started. He has documentation the CIA infiltrated the hippy community. He found Manson parole file and found Manson ( had a secret immunity from prosecution for previous murders) Sounds lot like Epstein to me. There lot more to this and have to watch the interview again to remember every detail.

Now you feeling sorry for an abuser of women

I'm not feeling sorry for him but its odd to me that you would believe every word that comes out of this guys mouth even though you've only just heard of him and despite the fact you admit yourself you don't even remember all the details.

Again, I've posted this. Court documents, newspaper articles from the time, letters from Bugliosi to the milkman etc. This is an old story

Explain how someone was beaten up and repeatedly punched in the face yet immediately after, had one small bruise?

And then linking this to Manson being a CIA operative or something. Charles Manson! Laughable stuff.

Cheerful Spring2

The Nal wrote: »

I'm not feeling sorry for him but its odd to me that you would believe every word that comes out of this guys mouth even though you've only just heard of him and despite the fact you admit yourself you don't even remember all the details.

Again, I've posted this. Court documents, newspaper articles from the time, letters from Bugliosi to the milkman etc. This is an old story

Explain how someone was beaten up and repeatedly punched in the face yet immediately after, had one small bruise?

And then linking this to Manson being a CIA operative or something. Charles Manson! Laughable stuff.

The Emotional torture can be worse than physical abuse. You provided no evidence she had only one bruise to her eye, and now you accuse her of making **** up?
Totally ignoring Vincent sweetheart deal. 
Where he stalked the Milkman and his wife for three years and told the media and the public, the guy robbed 300 dollars from the house. He'd pay them off to be quiet, since he knew the claims were false. Why would the Milkman be in his house anyway? The Man, mad.

Yes, you felt sorry for him, but that another story for another day. We try to stay on topic here.

Yes, the CIA was using LSD and hypnosis to have people carry out murders on command and get away with it.  Factual info. They were attempting to have people to do horrible crime and murders and then forget and wipe the memories later.  

O Neill found a CIA doctor ( Louis West)  former military officer- working for a medical clinic,  was at the same place and facility as Manson in 1968, and O Neill found the documentation he was someone heavily involved in the CIA- MK ultra experiments in the 60s. He denied involvement with the program when the allegations came out in the past about him and Manson. Now newly discovered documents show him, and the founder of MK ultra program (Sidney Gottlieb) worked together.

The Nal

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

The Emotional torture can be worse than physical abuse. You provided no evidence she had only one bruise to her eye, and now you accuse her of making **** up?

I provided no evidence? The evidence is in the document I posted. Which Ive mentioned several times. An actual police report. Real hard evidence. The evidence you ignored.

So explain to me, how does someone get punched repeatedly in the face and have a small bruise of their eye?

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »


Totally ignoring Vincent sweetheart deal. 
Where he stalked the Milkman and his wife for three years and told the media and the public, the guy robbed 300 dollars from the house. He'd pay them off to be quiet, since he knew the claims were false. Why would the Milkman be in his house anyway? The Man, mad.

In the 50s and 60s in America it wasn't uncommon for people to leave their doors unlocked and for milkmen to deliver right into the fridge. No big story there.

Or maybe he was banging Bugliosis Mrs. This doesnt prove Manson was a CIA operative.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »


Yes, the CIA was using LSD and hypnosis to have people carry out murders on command and get away with it.  Factual info. They were attempting to have people to do horrible crime and murders and then forget and wipe the memories later.  

Yes, we know this. Everyone knows this.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »


O Neill found a CIA doctor ( Louis West)  former military officer- working for a medical clinic,  was at the same place and facility as Manson in 1968, and O Neill found the documentation he was someone heavily involved in the CIA- MK ultra experiments in the 60s. He denied involvement with the program when the allegations came out in the past about him and Manson. Now newly discovered documents show him, and the founder of MK ultra program (Sidney Gottlieb) worked together.

The "facility" was the free medical clinic where people went to treat ODs, STDs etc. Manson may have been there. Is that it?

Even for a cash in conspiracy like this one, thats tenuous. Total waste of time.

Cheerful Spring2

The Nal wrote: »

I provided no evidence? The evidence is in the document I posted. Which Ive mentioned several times. An actual police report. Real hard evidence. The evidence you ignored.

So explain to me, how does someone get punched repeatedly in the face and have a small bruise of their eye?



In the 50s and 60s in America it wasn't uncommon for people to leave their doors unlocked and for milkmen to deliver right into the fridge. No big story there.

Or maybe he was banging Bugliosis Mrs. This doesnt prove Manson was a CIA operative.



Yes, we know this. Everyone knows this.



The "facility" was the free medical clinic where people went to treat ODs, STDs etc. Manson may have been there. Is that it?

Even for a cash in conspiracy like this one, thats tenuous. Total waste of time.

The Nal

donaghs

I’ve heard Tom ONeill on a few other podcasts since hearing him on Joe Rogan.

I don’t think it’s all conspiracy. The author admits himself it seems like he’s heading down conspiracy rabbit holes. The link with Manson’s parole officer, the health clinic, and CIA drug experiments are interesting.

He seems to avoid the obvious possibility about Bugliosi not making evidence available to the defence. That it wasn’t for conspiracy reason, but that he simply wanted to ensure he got the convictions he wanted.

I’d like to read more about what lead Manson to Sam Francisco in 1967. Was it really a parole
Officer who persuaded him to go there and “soak up the vibes”? But I guess I’ll have to actually buy some books and do some research to find out more.