property trouble/ownership

jaapbond

Hi everybody,

I am in a very strange position and I hope someone here can help ... I will go to my solicitor tomorrow to ask for help but curious about opinions here ...
My wife and I bought our cottage on 2.5 acres in rural Cork 21 years ago and we have made it our home for our family and had three kids.
Today out of the blue we got a phone call from our neighbour to say he is buying a piece of our land of a farmer down the road. Now this is not exactly a bit down the garden we never get to but the entry to our driveway and the first 30 yards of it ...
We have never had any idea or reason to believe that this was not part of our property but checking on landregistry.ie there is a bit belonging to the farmer.
The map we have from our estate agent 21 years ago made no mention of it and neither have we heard anyone of our other neighbours mention it (they lived there at least 15 years before us ... the farmers has not been on the land or made use of it for the last 21 years since we have been there , has not even been there to visit us , we only know him from the friendly wave when we drive past or a hello when moving his cows ...
We are in absolute shock that the new neighbour would buy an integral part of our property without mentioning this to us, they have been there for about a year and we would say we thought we have a good relationship ...
I have been googling about adverse possesion and it seems we would fall into this category but now question if that would be too late if they are already in the process of the sale ...
Please help, in shock here and don't know what to do ...

landofthetree

I think its against forum rules for people to give an opinion.

Best wait to hear what your solicitor says.

diggerdigger

jaapbond wrote: »

Hi everybody,

I am in a very strange position and I hope someone here can help ... I will go to my solicitor tomorrow to ask for help but curious about opinions here ...
My wife and I bought our cottage on 2.5 acres in rural Cork 21 years ago and we have made it our home for our family and had three kids.
Today out of the blue we got a phone call from our neighbour to say he is buying a piece of our land of a farmer down the road. Now this is not exactly a bit down the garden we never get to but the entry to our driveway and the first 30 yards of it ...
We have never had any idea or reason to believe that this was not part of our property but checking on landregistry.ie there is a bit belonging to the farmer.
The map we have from our estate agent 21 years ago made no mention of it and neither have we heard anyone of our other neighbours mention it (they lived there at least 15 years before us ... the farmers has not been on the land or made use of it for the last 21 years since we have been there , has not even been there to visit us , we only know him from the friendly wave when we drive past or a hello when moving his cows ...
We are in absolute shock that the new neighbour would buy an integral part of our property without mentioning this to us, they have been there for about a year and we would say we thought we have a good relationship ...
I have been googling about adverse possesion and it seems we would fall into this category but now question if that would be too late if they are already in the process of the sale ...
Please help, in shock here and don't know what to do ...

I would not talk to anyone but your solicitor.

Not legal advice, but *definitely* don't go around telling neighbours that you thought it was yours. Adverse possession may require you to have intended to take possession. Solicitor all the way. Keep your mouth shut till you get proper advice.

jaapbond

Thank you, will go to solicitor first thing, no sleep will be had tonight though.
Did not think people would be capable of doing stuff like this ...

10-10-20

Once resolved, please feedback here all-of-the-same as the situation is intriguing and would be worth documenting.

jaapbond

Will do ... Would love to hear anybody else their thoughts ... won't be going to bed soon ... absolutely fuming ...

the_syco

jaapbond wrote: »

We have never had any idea or reason to believe that this was not part of our property but checking on landregistry.ie there is a bit belonging to the farmer.

Check with your solicitor if this is a new thing, or has he always had that land?

cameramonkey

jaapbond wrote: »

Hi everybody,

I am in a very strange position and I hope someone here can help ... I will go to my solicitor tomorrow to ask for help but curious about opinions here ...
My wife and I bought our cottage on 2.5 acres in rural Cork 21 years ago and we have made it our home for our family and had three kids.
Today out of the blue we got a phone call from our neighbour to say he is buying a piece of our land of a farmer down the road. Now this is not exactly a bit down the garden we never get to but the entry to our driveway and the first 30 yards of it ...
We have never had any idea or reason to believe that this was not part of our property but checking on landregistry.ie there is a bit belonging to the farmer.
The map we have from our estate agent 21 years ago made no mention of it and neither have we heard anyone of our other neighbours mention it (they lived there at least 15 years before us ... the farmers has not been on the land or made use of it for the last 21 years since we have been there , has not even been there to visit us , we only know him from the friendly wave when we drive past or a hello when moving his cows ...
We are in absolute shock that the new neighbour would buy an integral part of our property without mentioning this to us, they have been there for about a year and we would say we thought we have a good relationship ...
I have been googling about adverse possesion and it seems we would fall into this category but now question if that would be too late if they are already in the process of the sale ...
Please help, in shock here and don't know what to do ...

Is the land on your maps, the ones you got when you bought your house?

ittakestwo

jaapbond wrote: »

Hi everybody,

I am in a very strange position and I hope someone here can help ... I will go to my solicitor tomorrow to ask for help but curious about opinions here ...
My wife and I bought our cottage on 2.5 acres in rural Cork 21 years ago and we have made it our home for our family and had three kids.
Today out of the blue we got a phone call from our neighbour to say he is buying a piece of our land of a farmer down the road. Now this is not exactly a bit down the garden we never get to but the entry to our driveway and the first 30 yards of it ...
We have never had any idea or reason to believe that this was not part of our property but checking on landregistry.ie there is a bit belonging to the farmer.
The map we have from our estate agent 21 years ago made no mention of it and neither have we heard anyone of our other neighbours mention it (they lived there at least 15 years before us ... the farmers has not been on the land or made use of it for the last 21 years since we have been there , has not even been there to visit us , we only know him from the friendly wave when we drive past or a hello when moving his cows ...
We are in absolute shock that the new neighbour would buy an integral part of our property without mentioning this to us, they have been there for about a year and we would say we thought we have a good relationship ...
I have been googling about adverse possesion and it seems we would fall into this category but now question if that would be too late if they are already in the process of the sale ...
Please help, in shock here and don't know what to do ...

Trying to picture your situation. Is the land you're referring to only accessed from your land. Can the farmer who claims to own it get to the land without crossing your land? Can he get to it from the rest of his land or a public highway?

As mentioned above you have to get legal advice. Unfortunately for your situation adverse possession is extremely difficult to get if the title owner of the land is disputing it.

jaapbond

It is such a bizar situation, the bit of land is where you enter "our" property, it has entrance pillars, we still have the original estate agent brochure from 21 years on it and it is the first picture on it and it has very mature trees on that ... we parked our cars there when we went to see the house with the agent and said :"this is where your property starts ...
There is no other way onto the property, there is a wall on one side of the drive which is our current boundary with our neighbours who want to buy it and have our entrance driveway in their garden ... but the would obviously close it ...
The farmer has no other land around it and the nearest field he owns is at least a mile away ... he cannot use it to get to anywhere because beyond it is only our garden ... the only maps we ever had was an ancient one and it was drawn on with a very fat marker ... we never had any reason or indicator to doubt it was our driveway ...whenever I needed maps in the past I referred to county council planning maps and it makes no mention of this parcel other then that it belongs to our property ... never had a reason to check land registry.ie

Peregrinus

Is the farmer who is selling this land to your neighbour the same person who sold your property to you?

ittakestwo

jaapbond wrote: »

It is such a bizar situation, the bit of land is where you enter "our" property, it has entrance pillars, we still have the original estate agent brochure from 21 years on it and it is the first picture on it and it has very mature trees on that ... we parked our cars there when we went to see the house with the agent and said :"this is where your property starts ...
There is no other way onto the property, there is a wall on one side of the drive which is our current boundary with our neighbours who want to buy it and have our entrance driveway in their garden ... but the would obviously close it ...
The farmer has no other land around it and the nearest field he owns is at least a mile away ... he cannot use it to get to anywhere because beyond it is only our garden ... the only maps we ever had was an ancient one and it was drawn on with a very fat marker ... we never had any reason or indicator to doubt it was our driveway ...whenever I needed maps in the past I referred to county council planning maps and it makes no mention of this parcel other then that it belongs to our property ... never had a reason to check land registry.ie

Did the farmer use to own your property? Perhaps when he sold it on the maps were drawn wrong leaving him an unattended piece of left over land that your neighbours have spotted.

I would discourage your neighbours from buying it. Inform them that you always believed that is was part of your property and that you're seeking legal advice regarding it... not many people with continuing buying a property they got the heads up on that it was going to be a legal minefield.

TheChizler

What side of the property are the entrance pillars on? As in is it inside the rest of your boundary, do you have exclusive access to it? Or is it open to the road if you know what I mean. Has the farmer done anything with it since you bought your house?

Did you take any advice when you purchased this, other than the estate agent's?

listermint

ittakestwo wrote: »

Did the farmer use to own your property? Perhaps when he sold it on the maps were drawn wrong leaving him an unattended piece of left over land that your neighbours have spotted.

I would discourage your neighbours from buying it. Inform them that you always believed that is was part of your property and that you're seeking legal advice regarding it... not many people with continuing buying a property they got the heads up on that it was going to be a legal minefield.

Dont do this, speak to your solicitor only.

jaapbond

I don't know how this farmer came to own the piece of land ... the family that lived in the cottage before us lived there for 30 years, we got to know them because they only moved down the road ... they never mentioned anything and used it as their driveway and nobody ever claimed it as theirs ...
The neighbours must have spotted it while looking at landregistry.ie ... and then approached the farmer ... In reality they cant do anything with it except for take away our driveway (can anyone be this nasty) and extend their garden (they have also got about 2.5 acres) I don't understand why the farmer did not ask if we were interested in buying it ...
Just wondering if it is too late now ...
Very frustrating ...

ittakestwo

jaapbond wrote: »

I don't know how this farmer came to own the piece of land ... the family that lived in the cottage before us lived there for 30 years, we got to know them because they only moved down the road ... they never mentioned anything and used it as their driveway and nobody ever claimed it as theirs ...
The neighbours must have spotted it while looking at landregistry.ie ... and then approached the farmer ... In reality they cant do anything with it except for take away our driveway (can anyone be this nasty) and extend their garden (they have also got about 2.5 acres) I don't understand why the farmer did not ask if we were interested in buying it ...
Just wondering if it is too late now ...
Very frustrating ...

Well they cant extend a garden over your driveway. If you have been driving over the land for 20+ years you have at least created a right of way over it even if you dont own it.

conndeal

It is possible that the neighbour (purchasing land) is in the same situation as yourself. The farmer may own part of their site and they may be trying to fix the situation by buying the land from the farmer. They are only there a year so cannot get adverse possession. It may be cheaper for the farmer (drawing maps etc) to sell him/her all the land rather than take out your part. If I was in that situation I would talk to the neighbour or farmer and try to buy my part of the land. I would talk to the solicitor first.

jaapbond

No ... there is a very clear line on the map where the wall in our garden is separating our properties ... My thinking at this stage is that a mistake was made maybe more the 60 years ago that left a bit of site in possession of the farmer but that neither the farmer nor the previous owner of our cottage was aware of ... it only came to light when the owner contacted the farmer offering to buy it ...
I think the farmer knows he can't do anything with it (It leads to nowhere but our house) but if he can get money for it, why not ... and the neighbour is trying to pull an incredible nasty fast one ...

So your new neighbour reckons you don't own part of your drive/entrance and wants to buy it from who they think does own it, and the seller is going along with it.

Who knows what they might want it for - chancing their arm to create an extra entrance to their site to possibly build another house on the 2.5 acres?

As above talk to no one other than a solicitor.

nuac

Mod
As already advised talk to your solicitor. Your solicitor will need to see the file on the purchase of the property, including requisitions on title and relevant surveys]

Addle

If there was an error when you purchased, your solicitor should have dealt with it then.
Likewise if there’s an error now, the purchasers solicitor will raise it as an issue.

jaapbond

It makes no sense for them to use that side of the house for an entrance for another site as if even that was the case it would make more sense to do it on the other side ...
There is a 6 ft high clear boundary wall between their and our property ... that I presume they would take down and move up taking in our driveway, making their garden bigger.

jaapbond

I did contact our solicitor and we are organising a engineer to come out but nobody can tell me how long it will take with the whole civic situation ... our solicitor never mentioned anything at the time ...
Not making excuses for him or her, but the layout of the property is such that no one would even question that it is part of our house ... the maps were very vague and not much digital computer mapping back then ...

cameramonkey

Was the land on your folio map when you bought it?
When was the land registry map updated last to include the disputed bit of land?

The land registry is not the ultimate arbiter of who owns land in Ireland. If you have been accessing the land for the for the last 20 years and as you say the farmer has not then you may have adverse position on your side.

All thees thing will be decided by your solicitor, make sure you have a good one that fully backs you.

the_syco

Deleted User wrote: »

Who knows what they might want it for - chancing their arm to create an extra entrance to their site to possibly build another house on the 2.5 acres?

TBH, depending on the price, buying the land and having trees planted there could pay for itself over time.