Registering an EU car, after 10 months of using it here?

Uilleam an Draoi

Hi all!

I know this item has been discussed a few times, I've used the search function and there's a number of threads but many of them are quite old (4/8yrs) and I have a few concerns or doubts that I can't see on other threads so if you excuse me... I'll explain it and will appreciate any reply :-)

My partner & me came to Ireland in Apr 2019 - at that time, our plan was to stay for a year and "see how it goes..." (life changes, etc...). By June we came with my car via Ferry as a way of doing our "move" in between our old apartment and the new place here in Dublin (lots of stuff, it was cheaper to bring the car full rather than shipping a container...). Also, we thought it was a good idea to have it here so we could do some trips and explore the island. At that time, I thought about registering the car but with the "one year test" in mind we ended up saying "it'll be fine" and continued using/driving with it (it has all the papers and insurance up to date in the previous country).

Now, as we decided to stay for longer period (1-2 yrs more) I'm looking to get it registered. Thing is, there's a lot of info and I'm a bit lost - Covid doesn't help and with all the NCT's and offices closed till further notice, I need your help/advice on this.

I have a copy of the proof of purchase, original registration form, etc... the car is a 2012 VW and it has been with me since the very beginning - Can I use the ferry ticket from June 2019 or the rule of registering within 7 days of entering the car is still a thing? in that case, if I go to UK and back, does it count as exiting and re-entering? Do I need to translate all the papers before doing the NCT? proof of purchase / first registration, insurance...etc. Also, do I need to pay VRT ? can I apply for an exception as I transferred my residency?

I know it's a lot, but in the end... my question is: will I be able to register my car after 10 months of using it here or it'll be a total pain?


Thanks sooooo much!!

Belfast

Is the car left hand drive?

FAQs on Left hand drivevehicles
https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/VS_Information_Notes/Alternative_Cars_Fuels/FAQs%20on%20Left%20hand%20drive%20vehicles.pdf

left hand drive cars can be hard to insure in Ireland.
As far as I know it is too late for transfer of residency.

Duke O Smiley

Yeah, the 7 day rule is still very much a thing. There are penalties for every day and month that the car is in the country after 30 days unregistered, this is added to the VRT bill. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but you won’t be entitled to the exemption either, they look for extensive proof that you have been living and working in your home country (with the car) for at least six months previous.

Is the car UK registered?

Marcusm

When did you buy the car? For how long did you use it in the U.K. (verifies by insurance, parking permits etc) before coming here? Can you establish that you have transferred your residence here (finish with property in UK, rental or ownership, acquisition of property here, owned or rented, change of employment status etc). There is no bar to claiming a transfer of residence exemption as a result of delay. The VRT is entirely remitted so there is no penalty. The surrounding circumstances will be more closely scrutinised. You must obtain the TOR exception letter before approaching NCTS. Do you have a PPS card?

Uilleam an Draoi

Hi All!

Thanks for the replies - the car is Spanish (yeah, another layer of complexity I guess). I'm Ok with paying VRT (if the TOR is not an option)...but if it's a big bill (adding all the days past the 30days, etc...) then it'll be cheaper to send it back home.

I bought the car in 2012, brand new and it has been with me since then. Yes, we do have PPS and we've been working & living in Ireland for the past year all legally - It'll be a challenge then, and prob need to wait till the NCT's offices reopen to get this a bit more clear...


Thanks!

Marcusm

Uilleam an Draoi wrote: »

Hi All!

Thanks for the replies - the car is Spanish (yeah, another layer of complexity I guess). I'm Ok with paying VRT (if the TOR is not an option)...but if it's a big bill (adding all the days past the 30days, etc...) then it'll be cheaper to send it back home.

I bought the car in 2012, brand new and it has been with me since then. Yes, we do have PPS and we've been working & living in Ireland for the past year all legally - It'll be a challenge then, and prob need to wait till the NCT's offices reopen to get this a bit more clear...


Thanks!

There’s no reason for the TOR not to be available. It’s not uncommon for EU citizens to move to Ireland and be uncertain as to the period. Once you have identified that you will be staying for 12 months and are not govt employees (eg embassy staff) or students then you should reregister. The exemption eliminates the VRT and the fine us based on VRT hence nil. Go on Revenue.ie and get the info fo TOR application and put it together. It will be he first step in the process and you should apply soonest to establish your good faith.

L-M

I also would see no issue on the TOR because although you might have moved here, you did own the car beforehand.

The whole 6 months thing on the TOR is to stop people scamming the system, you've a genuine case to be fair.

If you do have to pay VRT it's really not going to be worth it. There could be a high NOX tax as well as VRT if it's diesel, plus it being left hand drive, I would just send it back home.

italodisco

L-M wrote: »

I also would see no issue on the TOR because although you might have moved here, you did own the car beforehand.

The whole 6 months thing on the TOR is to stop people scamming the system, you've a genuine case to be fair.

If you do have to pay VRT it's really not going to be worth it. There could be a high NOX tax as well as VRT if it's diesel, plus it being left hand drive, I would just send it back home.

You could sell it here no problem.

I had a left hand drive audi and I sold it in 2 days, must have had 60 messages about it, mostly polish lads.

A Polish lad bought it and drove it home, no idea if he did it legally though.

Sell it.

L-M

You can't legally sell a car in Ireland that's not registered in Ireland.

Just saying...

I also imagine it would command a better premium in Spain, it's not that old.

Uilleam an Draoi

Hi people!

Thanks so much Marcusm and L-M for the replies - I had a look at the TOR info a while back but I'll go throught it again (and apply if possible).

With all this thing, my only concern is when I'll be able to visit the NCT office to clarify the VRT, and overall costs. As you've said, if the bill goes above a point, I'll prob send the car back and look into something else :-)


Thanks again! Really appreciate

L-M

I just read here

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/reliefs-and-exemptions/transfer-of-residence.aspx

“ brought into the State within 12 months of the date of your transfer of residence”

I’m sure with Covid-19 there would be some le-way on the 12 months. You will be fine.

Uilleam an Draoi

Hi L-M

Correct, I saw that as well and thought "Oh...then I'm fine till mid-June" and also agree, most prob with the covid thing there's a bit of extra time.

Same as with my Spanish NCT, is due in May but with the situation over there...I got at least 1month extension so that'll give me some time to breath. Fingers crossed, first let's go for the TOR and go step by step

Thanks so much for the imput :-)

Marcusm

Uilleam an Draoi wrote: »

Hi L-M

Correct, I saw that as well and thought "Oh...then I'm fine till mid-June" and also agree, most prob with the covid thing there's a bit of extra time.

Same as with my Spanish NCT, is due in May but with the situation over there...I got at least 1month extension so that'll give me some time to breath. Fingers crossed, first let's go for the TOR and go step by step

Thanks so much for the imput :-)

The date of change of residence is not necessarily the date you arrived here but the date in which you changed your residence to here which will be from when you’ve decided to stay longer than 12 months. The ability to move cars over 12 months after the change is for people who leave cars abroad. Yours is already here and so it’s not relevant. Get the TOR form and the docs together to Submit to Revenue which is the necessary first step. NCTS is the second step.

CiniO

OP
To avail of VRT exemption for transfer of residence in short you have to:
- use the car in home country for at least 6 months before moving to Ireland - you did - before April 2019.
- bring the car to Ireland withing 12 months of becoming resident - you did in June 2019.

You probably should have applied for vrt exemption right after bringing it here in June 2019, but as Marcusm have said it's not a big deal as even applying now there shouldn't be any penalty. There's absolutely no need to do any tricks with ferry tickets, bringing car to and back from UK, etc...

Also I don't think you'll need any translations, but I might be wrong about it. Normally your original Spanish registration cert and invoice should be more than enough.

CiniO

italodisco wrote: »

You could sell it here no problem.

I had a left hand drive audi and I sold it in 2 days, must have had 60 messages about it, mostly polish lads.

A Polish lad bought it and drove it home, no idea if he did it legally though.

Sell it.

What do you mean by that?
That he wasn't allowed legally to buy it, or that he wasn't allowed legally to drive it ?

CiniO

L-M wrote: »

You can't legally sell a car in Ireland that's not registered in Ireland.

Are there any exact regulations stating that fact?

lawred2

L-M wrote: »

You can't legally sell a car in Ireland that's not registered in Ireland.

Just saying...

I also imagine it would command a better premium in Spain, it's not that old.

I'm not sure that's true.

horse7

I didn't think your insurance would cover you for that length of period driving in Ireland with Spanish insurance. Is it an EU thing.?

User1998

Nha he is right you can’t legally sell an unregistered vehicle in Ireland. Its tax evasion since your not paying VRT.

michellie

OP you will qualify for a VRT exemption. This will mean you wont have to pay anything. Contact your local revenue office to arrange that (most of revenue are working from home)

Have you applied for a PPS number yet? You will need that.

Hopefully if restrictions relax next month NCT centres will reopen in a few weeks.

If you don't want to go down the exemption route, you have to pay VRT+NOx+penalties from the day the car entered Ireland.

Marcusm

CiniO wrote: »

Are there any exact regulations stating that fact?

It's not a fact, it's a common misconception. The law precludes anyone other than a TAN Holder from possessing an unregistered vehiice (except within the time limits for registration and/or when benefitting from an exemption such as the temporary importation exemption and others) hence the common misconception that selling or buying such a car is unlawful. It is the possession of the car simpliciter which is unlawful.

Uilleam an Draoi

Hi All,

I submited a querie on the revenue website for the VRT exception (reason, TOR) as I was unable to find the TOR itself...I may give it another go along today and double check I did it correctly.

Got a message saying it'll take a bit to go through, so let's hope I get a response soon .

As stated before, I got my PPS in early May 2019 (within a week of arriving) - the car is a 1.2 90Cv so no big deal... think it's 119gr CO2 and 16.0 NOX value if I'm not wrong, I'll need to adjust the headlights but that's something prior to NCT and when my local garage re-opens should be a quick fix.

For the insurance, I checked a few times and with the "green card" there's no trouble in driving around EU so I'm fully covered.


Thanks again for the comments & suggestions - really appreciate it!

Isambard

I'd say provided you can prove ownership abroad prior to permanently taking up residence, the date of Import will be the date you finally brought the car into the state, which the sound of it should be well within the past 12 months. If you were back and forth, then you can legitimately claim you hadn't decided to import the car until the last time you entered the State.

CiniO

horse7 wrote: »

I didn't think your insurance would cover you for that length of period driving in Ireland with Spanish insurance. Is it an EU thing.?

Yes.
All third party insurance policy issued in the EU are valid for the whole period of the policy all over EU. It's the EU-wide law.

And generally it works like that everywhere, except from Ireland and UK, where insurers use tricks like saying - if you're gone from Ireland for more than 3 months, then we don't consider you resident here anymore therefore we'll cancel your policy.
Unlawful IMO.

CiniO

Marcusm wrote: »

It's not a fact, it's a common misconception. The law precludes anyone other than a TAN Holder from possessing an unregistered vehiice (except within the time limits for registration and/or when benefitting from an exemption such as the temporary importation exemption and others) hence the common misconception that selling or buying such a car is unlawful. It is the possession of the car simpliciter which is unlawful.

Thanks.
I always though that as well, but no one ever confirmed it to me.


Would that mean that foreign person normally resident in their home country, when coming to Ireland for holidays, is actually entitled to sell his foreign registered car in Ireland ?

Uilleam an Draoi

Thanks Isambard

Let's see how it goes with the Revenue people... I'll post any updates & such here in case someone else is in the same situation, so we have new info here


Regards!

Isambard

CiniO wrote: »

Thanks.
I always though that as well, but no one ever confirmed it to me.


Would that mean that foreign person normally resident in their home country, when coming to Ireland for holidays, is actually entitled to sell his foreign registered car in Ireland ?

i can't see why not.

Marcusm

CiniO wrote: »

Thanks.
I always though that as well, but no one ever confirmed it to me.


Would that mean that foreign person normally resident in their home country, when coming to Ireland for holidays, is actually entitled to sell his foreign registered car in Ireland ?

I think such a foreign resident person would be in breach if the temporary exemption which they have benefited when they brought the car in for a temporary purpose and would have difficutly proving it was not their intent from the outset. That being said, Revenue would likely not care if the car was registered very close to the importation date.

Isambard

Marcusm wrote: »

I think such a foreign resident person would be in breach if the temporary exemption which they have benefited when they brought the car in for a temporary purpose and would have difficutly proving it was not their intent from the outset. That being said, Revenue would likely not care if the car was registered very close to the importation date.

i've sold a couple of cars the other way and delivered them to the UK. The sale wasn't complete until delivered and I can't see what difference it makes to anything. There was no criminal intent which surely is all that matters, just business.

Marcusm

Isambard wrote: »

i've sold a couple of cars the other way and delivered them to the UK. The sale wasn't complete until delivered and I can't see what difference it makes to anything. There was no criminal intent which surely is all that matters, just business.

Did I suggest anything criminal? The U.K. does not have an equivalent tax for secondhand cars and if the deal was done then for the only U.K. relevant tax (VAT), the supply was in Ireland. When importing a car to Ireland, a VRT liability arises on importation and is satisfied on registration. A temporary relief is available for a car here temporarily and intended to be re-exported. CiniO is, admirably, a person of precision which is why I answered his question as I did. In reality, once the VRT is paid by the new owner shortly after importation, no issue will arise. However, CiniO always wants to understand the theoretical position as well.

Uilleam an Draoi

Hi All,

Trying to submit all the docs & forms on the revenue at the moment, once I get a confirmation if they'll take it in Spanish or if I need to translate them.

I just thought one thing - the headlights will be no issue on NCT once I have them aligned for Ireland (halogen, but think they can be adjusted left/right & up/down...), but.... realised that I have the reverse light on the wrong side?¿ Will that be a fail on the NCT? do I need to swap my rear lights for UK-IRL ones?


Thanks

PatM65

Uilleam an Draoi wrote: »

Hi All,


I just thought one thing - the headlights will be no issue on NCT once I have them aligned for Ireland (halogen, but think they can be adjusted left/right & up/down...)

I genuinely hope you get everything sorted but a bit disappointed to see that you haven't sorted your headlights long before now. It must be a nuisance for anyone coming towards you.

Uilleam an Draoi

PatM65 wrote: »

I genuinely hope you get everything sorted but a bit disappointed to see that you haven't sorted your headlights long before now. It must be a nuisance for anyone coming towards you.

Hi PatM65,

At the begining it was something "temporary" so I avoided putting those stickers as it's a pain to remove them and now plans changed. But in my defense I'll say that I rarely drive at night and I have my lights set to the lowest setting possible, so I doubt it's a problem for oncoming traffic...



Thanks!