Right of travellers to terminate pack travel contracts

nino1

I was reading this guidance

https://dbei.gov.ie/en/News-And-Events/Department-News/2020/March/COVID-19-guidance-rights-termination-package-travel-contracts.html

and wondered if it relates to my circumstances.

We have booked a family holiday to Morocco with loveholiday.

I only paid €200 as the first deposit installment out of a total cost of around €3000.

I cancelled my visa card before the next €500 installment was taken out to bide some time and see how this plays out.
Given the above guidance am i entitled to break the contract?

Its cleary not going to happen now so why should i pay now in order to try to claim back money later in what is inevitably going to be a long drawn ojt process?

As they are a UK company does this Irish guidance make any difference?

What would be the likely consequence of me not paying any further anounts?

TIA

whomitconcerns

nino1 wrote: »

I was reading this guidance

https://dbei.gov.ie/en/News-And-Events/Department-News/2020/March/COVID-19-guidance-rights-termination-package-travel-contracts.html

and wondered if it relates to my circumstances.

We have booked a family holiday to Morocco with loveholiday.

I only paid €200 as the first deposit installment out of a total cost of around €3000.

I cancelled my visa card before the next €500 installment was taken out to bide some time and see how this plays out.
Given the above guidance am i entitled to break the contract?

Its cleary not going to happen now so why should i pay now in order to try to claim back money later in what is inevitably going to be a long drawn ojt process?

As they are a UK company does this Irish guidance make any difference?

What would be the likely consequence of me not paying any further anounts?

TIA

So you didn't engage with them, you just cancelled your card. Likely you will still be billed then as you presumably contracted for the charge so it will be levied to your account and you'll get a bill from your cc company.

Speak with the travel company first. You will have no claim for a charge back either if you haven't done that or at least made a concerted effort to try.

Dav010

When is the holiday booked for?

Batgurl

Dav010 wrote: »

When is the holiday booked for?

This is the most important thing. If they have cancelled the trip, you are legally due a refund (although will likely have to settle for a credit in the current situation). If you have just decided you don’t want to go or it’s not happening, then you are in breach of contract and legally they can pursue you for the balance.

nino1

Batgurl wrote: »

This is the most important thing. If they have cancelled the trip, you are legally due a refund (although will likely have to settle for a credit in the current situation). If you have just decided you don’t want to go or it’s not happening, then you are in breach of contract and legally they can pursue you for the balance.

Its booked for 25th of may.


Does that guidance not say that i am entitled to break the contract or an i completely misreading it?

"Section 18A(4) of the Package Holidays and Travel Trade Act 1995 gives travellers the right to terminate package travel contracts before the start of the package in the event of unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances occurring at the place of destination of the package or its immediate vicinity that significantly affect the performance of the package or the carriage of passengers to the package destination. Where package travel contracts are terminated in accordance with this right, travellers are not required to pay any fee for the termination of the contract and are entitled to a full refund of all payments made for the package not later than 14 days after the contract is terminated."

Batgurl

When is/was your balance due?

And did you book through the .ie site or the .co.uk site?

nino1

Batgurl wrote: »

When is/was your balance due?

And did you book through the .ie site or the .co.uk site?

The next portion of the balance was due a few weeks ago, probably the third payment due now also. 6 payments in total.
I just told them i lost my card and have not said i wouldnt be paying. Just trying to drag it out a bit until i
get a clearer picture of what might happen.
Booked on .ie site

whomitconcerns

nino1 wrote: »

The next portion of the balance was due a few weeks ago, probably the third payment due now also. 6 payments in total.
I just told them i lost my card and have not said i wouldnt be paying. Just trying to drag it out a bit until i
get a clearer picture of what might happen.
Booked on .ie site

As I said above, if this is what you have done, then you have not cancelled it and you owe them the rest of the money as per your contact. You can't break the terms and then retroactively say I want to cancel.

AFAIK 25th of may nothing is officially closed as of yet

Batgurl

By not paying the second instalment, you’ve breached your contract and so are entitled to nothing.

Loveholidays can, in fact, come after you for the balance. It remains to be seen whether they will or not. But if you cancelled your card, I believe in theory they can apply the debit to your new card the bank issues you.

paddy19

Batgurl wrote: »

By not paying the second instalment, you’ve breached your contract and so are entitled to nothing.

As of 15 April 2020, the confirmed cases in Morocco reached 2024, and the number of recoveries reached 229, with a total number of 127 deaths.

From Loveholidys T & C's

"Unavoidable and Extraordinary Circumstances

In these Terms and Conditions, where we refer to Unavoidable and Extraordinary Circumstances, it means a situation beyond the control of the party who invokes such a situation and the consequences of which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken."

This may cover for example warfare, other serious security problems such as terrorism, significant risks to human health such as the outbreak of a serious disease at the travel destination,

In relation to Package bookings only, in addition to the cancellation rights set out above, you shall have the right to cancel your booking before the start of the Package without paying any cancellation charge in the event of unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances (which is described in paragraph 14 below) (“Unavoidable and Extraordinary Circumstances”)"

This is a not a business to business contract with a band of lawyers on both sides. This is a consumer to business contract and so the consumer is not expected to be a legal expert and follow all the nuances of contract law.

There is an obvious conflict between the terms of the contract and the Act.
The question is which is superior.

I would think the Act has priority over the contract.
In fact the act claims that priority.

Assuming the act applies, it specifically gives the traveller the right to terminate the package travel contract. The most obvious way to terminate a consumer contract is stop payment. It would be idiotic to continue to pay for a contract that is terminated.

I can't see any court holding that he should pay all the cost and then try to recover the costs from the supplier.

The courts at the end of the day apply a standard of reasonableness.

Irish law would seem to apply per Loveholiday T & Cs.:

23. Law and Jurisdiction

These Terms and Conditions are governed by English law and the courts of England and Wales have exclusive jurisdiction over any dispute or matter arising out of these Terms and Conditions (unless you live in Scotland, Republic of Ireland or Northern Ireland, in which case you can bring proceedings in your local court under Scottish, Republic of Ireland or Northern Irish law, as applicable.)

https://www.loveholidays.ie/about-us/terms-and-conditions-ie.html

Batgurl

That’s an awful lot of assumptions. Based on a lot of hypothesis.

My retort would be that consumers entering into contracts with businesses are expected to abide by the payment terms they explicitly agree to at time of entering.

OP should take the hit on the deposit and just hope they don’t chase him for the balances.

Peregrinus

Failing to make a payment when due is not "the most obvious way to cancel a contract", since people frequently fail to make payments when due for reasons that have nothing to do with cancellation. Indeed, in this case the OP has told them that he failed to make the payment because he lost his card, so even if they might have thought at one time that he failed to make the payment because he was cancelling the contract, they definitely don't think that now.

The most obvious way to cancel a contract is to speak or write to the other party, saying "I'm cancelling this contract".

As to the discrepancy between the terms of the Act and the terms of the contract, a few points.

1. The Act is a UK Act. An issue arises over whether it governs a contract with an Irish holidaymaker. You'd have to read the Act to find out. I haven't read the Act. The contract itself does acknowledge that it may be governed by Irish law rather than UK law when the holidaymaker is resident in Ireland, but it's unclear whether this is an option the Irish holidaymaker can invoke or not as he prefers, or whether it's always the case.

2. Assume that the Act does apply. It entitles the holidaymaker to cancel "in the event of unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances occurring at the place of destination of the package or its immediate vicinity that significantly affect the performance of the package or the carriage of passengers to the package destination". It seems to me that if the flights are still flying and the hotel is still open, you can't cancel in reliance on the Act.

3. However the contract seems to confer greater rights than the Act. It says you can "cancel your booking before the start of the Package without paying any cancellation charge in the event of unavoidable and extraordinary circumstances", and it specifically offers "significant risks to human health such as the outbreak of a serious disease at the travel destination" as an example of extraordinary circumstances. Given that there is CV-19 in Morocco, it's highly contagious, and the OP can't socially isolate in Morocco as easily or effectively as he can at home, I'd say that the contract terms do allow him to cancel.

4. If both the Act and the contract apply, Paddy19 suggests that the Act "trumps" the contract. I disagree; a contract can always give you better/more favourable terms than the Act requires; the Act just prescribed minimum standards. So even though the Act may not allow the OP to cancel on account of CV19, I think the contract does entitle him to, and he can rely on that.

5. However, until he cancels, he hasn't cancelled, and he hasn't cancelled yet, so payments are still accruing due. Without reading the contract it's not clear if cancellation entitles you to a return of payments already made (it probably does, but don't assume that) or absolves you from liablity for payments already due but still unpaid.

6. So cancel, OP. What are you waiting for? Cancel, and ask for a refund of the amount already paid. You may or may not get the refund but, even if you don't, at least you'll have cut your losses.

nino1

Thanks so much to all for the great advise. Really appreciate it.

Peregrinus wrote: »

.

6. So cancel, OP. What are you waiting for? Cancel, and ask for a refund of the amount already paid. You may or may not get the refund but, even if you don't, at least you'll have cut your losses.

I was just waiting until it was closer to the travel date as I thought that if I cancelled too early that they could say how do I know that it wont be resolved by the time of travel.

nino1

nino1 wrote: »

Thanks so much to all for the great advise. Really appreciate it.




I was just waiting until it was closer to the travel date as I thought that if I cancelled too early that they could say how do I know that it wont be resolved by the time of travel.

Would the timing of the cancellation potentially be an issue?
is it possible to cancel too early where it can be hard to predict what will happen a few weeks down the line. Ryanair are not officially cancelling flights until 2 weeks before.