Three refarming Band1 for 4G ?

smuggler.ie

Few weeks ago received sms from Three about maintenance works planned in area and potential service disruption. It was set for two dates: 15-17 Mar and 5-7 Apr.

Since whatever they did on my local mast, i have discovered new cell available with sector ID that i never seen before. Managed to get my router to hook-up to it and it gives me good 4G/4G+ cover and decent speeds. Looking deeper it appear to serve on Band1 which again was not listed on that mast before for LTE

<rsrq>-9dB</rsrq>
<rsrp>-96dBm</rsrp>
<rssi>-77dBm</rssi>
<sinr>20dB</sinr>
<rscp></rscp>
<ecio></ecio>
<mode>7</mode>
<ulbandwidth>15MHz</ulbandwidth>
<dlbandwidth>15MHz</dlbandwidth>
<txpower>PPusch:14dBm PPucch:-7dBm PSrs:0dBm PPrach:1dBm</txpower>
<ul_mcs>mcsUpCarrier1:22</ul_mcs>
<dl_mcs>mcsDownCarrier1Code0:28 mcsDownCarrier1Code1:28 </dl_mcs>
<earfcn>DL:525 UL:18525</earfcn>
<rrc_status>1</rrc_status>
<band>1</band>

Is this new in ROI or is it common and does it mean they preparing for VoLTE ?

smuggler.ie

@22:10

The Cush

Temporary liberalisation of the 2.1 GHz band for 4G services for a maximum period of 6 months as a temporary measure during the COVID-19 crisis.

https://www.comreg.ie/publication-download/s-i-no-122-of-2020-temporary-electronic-communications-services-licences

smuggler.ie

Is there chance that they will leave this as is? If not mistaking, UK refarming or had plans from 2018

The Cush

smuggler.ie wrote: »

Is there chance that they will leave this as is? If not mistaking, UK refarming or had plans from 2018

Not a chance, it'll be going to auction in due course together with the 700 MHz, 2300 MHz and 2600 MHz bands.

smuggler.ie

The Cush wrote: »

Not a chance, it'll be going to auction in due course together with the 700 MHz, 2300 MHz and 2600 MHz bands.

Any update to that?
Apparently B1 is still serving for 4G on the mast of my choice.

The Cush

smuggler.ie wrote: »

Any update to that?

Multi Band Spectrum Award - Response to Consultation and Decision - The 700 MHz Duplex, 2.1 GHz, 2.3 GHz and 2.6 GHz Bands, published 18th December 2020

ComReg envisages that the next steps in this process will be as follows:

a) Publication of a response to the previously held consultation, such response addressing outstanding and discrete matters relating to the draft information memorandum and the publication of the final Information Memorandum and final Draft Regulations;
b) The holding of a presentation to allow interested parties to further develop their understanding of the relevant award procedures, processes and tools;
c) The holding of a question and answer phase;
d) Publication of the licensing regulations under Wireless Telegraphy Acts (following obtaining the required consent of the Minister);
e) The submission of applications by interested parties;
f) The determination by ComReg of the applicants that qualify to become bidders and whether there is a need to hold a main stage / or assignment stage (i.e. an auction):
g) the holding of mock auction(s) with bidders;
h) notice to bidders on the start date of the Auction (assuming it is required);
i) the running of the Auction in accordance with the rules and procedures set out in the Information Memorandum (assuming it is required); and
j) the award of licences to winning bidders.

smuggler.ie wrote: »

Apparently B1 is still serving for 4G on the mast of my choice.

Further Temporary ECS licences and a renewal licence have been assigned to the three MNOs, Meteor, Three and Vodafone. These licences expire on 7 January 2021 and the renewal licences expire on 1 April 2021.


Decision published 18 September 2020
Regulation published 6 October 2020

The 2.1 GHz Band is one of two bands (the other being in the 900 MHz band (for UMTS)) currently used to provide 3G services. MNOs are likely to continue operating 3G services, before refarming the band to enable provision of 4G (as evidenced by the recent use of the bands for 4G services on a temporary basis) ... As part of the COVID-19 Temporary Spectrum Management Measures ..., ComReg decided to temporarily make the 2.1 GHz Band available on a liberalised basis.

smuggler.ie

Thanks
This somewhat great news , for me anyway.... till it last.

As i manage to "force" router(B525) to use B1 for upload and use B1, B3 and B20 for download CA it gives me most of it - with many working from home speeds dropped radically even during business hours.

ED E

smuggler.ie wrote: »

Thanks
This somewhat great news , for me anyway.... till it last.

As i manage to "force" router(B525) to use B1 for upload and use B1, B3 and B20 for download CA it gives me most of it - with many working from home speeds dropped radically even during business hours.

Realistically its permanent. Three host somewhere around 60% of the nation and have the financial ability and the business requirement to win some of it at auction. Even if the exact blocks they get change they'll be using B1 long term.


Seeing some really solid performance from them too. Checked along my commute recently, lowest test 77Mb and highest 160Mb. Built up area, during a pandemic with everyone on WFH loading those cells. Considering VF/eir are doing none of the legwork its quite impressive.

smuggler.ie

ED E wrote: »

Seeing some really solid performance from them too. Checked along my commute recently, lowest test 77Mb and highest 160Mb. Built up area, during a pandemic with everyone on WFH loading those cells. Considering VF/eir are doing none of the legwork its quite impressive.

No longer apply to me - 100 is tops on my best day, for last 3-4 months
If i have consistent 50-70 i call it v. good.

Signal stats are good, guess indicate moderate/heavy load on mast from other users that i have to share with
RSRQ: -7dB
RSRP: -90dBm
SINR: 20dB

Cork981

Edit: The below is wrong, they are using B3 (1800mhz) not B1 for 5G in a few locations.

Three are using B1 on a few rural cells for 5G. I’m wondering will they eventually stop broadcasting 3G on 2100mhz and use it for 4G and 5G only and keep 900mhz 3G for calls.

smuggler.ie

Cork981 wrote: »

Three are using B1 on a few rural cells for 5G.

Are they? Do you have any record of it or link with info?

Cork981

smuggler.ie wrote: »

Are they? Do you have any record of it or link with info?

Edit: My mistake it’s B3 not B1 they are using for 5G.

I haven’t seen it in my location (Just outside Cork City) but I assume it’s deployed on quiet 4G sites.

I’ve seen it here

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/luke-kehoe_5g-activity-6746086843193843712-88E5

And on an Ericsson blog a few months ago which I assumed it was a mistake - can’t find it right now.

ED E

Cork981 wrote: »

I’m wondering will they eventually stop broadcasting 3G on 2100mhz and use it for 4G and 5G only and keep 900mhz 3G for calls.

Yep, thats whats happening in the UK at the minute. Same spectrum, much more efficient use thereof. No brainer as long as the MNOs can afford the kit.



Cellmapper will show you *some* of the B1 sites deployed at the minute.

smuggler.ie

Whats the story with B28 , i see on cellmapper. eNB ID 3306(Three), as sample has all four listed

Cork981

smuggler.ie wrote: »

Whats the story with B28 , i see on cellmapper. eNB ID 3306, as sample has all four listed

As part of the temporary spectrum licence issued during the pandemic to increase capacity all 3 MNOs were giving 10mhz of 700mhz. It offers wide coverage but moderate capacity. It’s used in a few areas with 3CA.

Eir seem to use it much more than the other two.

It will be included in the multi band spectrum award this quarter but I can’t see much change in current setup.

smuggler.ie

Also, are these in use
B7 = 2600MHz
B8 = 900MHz
B32 = 1500MHz
B38 = 2600MHz
Would they be for 4G or 5G ?

Cork981

smuggler.ie wrote: »

Also, are these in use
B7 = 2600MHz
B8 = 900MHz
B32 = 1500MHz
B38 = 2600MHz
Would they be for 4G or 5G ?

In ROI the current bands in use are.

700mhz - 4G B28 (temporary allocation)
800mhz - 4G B20
900mhz - 3G B8 (most cellular voice calls are carried over this)
1800mhz - 4G/5G B3
2100mhz - 3G/4G B1
3600mhz - 5G NSA n78

The multiband spectrum award includes 700 MHz Duplex, 2.1 GHz, 2.3 GHz and 2.6 GHz Bands.

A lower band will eventually be needed for 5G for good indoor coverage once more people adopt it.
I’d guess 700mhz will eventually be used for 5G.

At the moment it’s more valuable as 4G capacity.

ED E

EDIT: Didnt read the second page of the thread

700Mhz, old TV spectrum:

It has now been established that the 4 March 2020 is the date
by which DTT services are to be migrated from the 700MHz
Duplex in Ireland and the date from which the 700MHz Duplex
is to be available for the provision of ECS/WBB services.

Suggested use for C-Agg between B20 and B28

131 Carrier Aggregation of 2×10MHz of 700MHz spectrum, 2×10MHz of 800MHz spectrum, and
2×10MHz of 900MHz spectrum

Part of the COVID temp use:
https://www.comreg.ie/industry/radio-spectrum/spectrum-awards/covid-19-temporary-spectrum-management-measures/



Really would be painful to see those bands turned down. Smaller allocations than the primary licences but going from B20+B3+B28+B1 to just B20+B3 would be a big slowdown between final license and temp one in case there's a gap.

ED E

Cork981 wrote: »

Eir seem to use it much more than the other two.

Wonder if it was already included in their RAN gear or moreover their licensing from the vendor.

Cork981

ED E wrote: »

Wonder if it was already included in their RAN gear or moreover their licensing from the vendor.

Yeah Eir have already upgraded many sites with Huawei multiband gear (SingleRan) which made easy I guess to which on 700mhz.

They used have a website with the mast upgrade schedule by area but anti 5G nuts started showing up protesting

ED E

Ughhhh....


We can probably infer that B28 use means new kit I guess? In that case easy enough to find sites by a little bit of mapping. Especially if rooted and you can bandlock your device.

Cork981

I was a Vodafone customer for years but I think 3 have overtaken Vodafone in terms of network performance in many locations that have undergone a RAN rebuild. Which is about 650 of just over 2000 sites owned by 3.

Once/if 3 launch WiFi-calling and VoLTE and upgrade the remaining sites and dump the Samsung equipment it will overtake Vodafone and Eir in many areas.

Cork981

ED E wrote: »

Ughhhh....


We can probably infer that B28 use means new kit I guess? In that case easy enough to find sites by a little bit of mapping. Especially if rooted and you can bandlock your device.

Yeah Eir are making huge leaps this last year upgrading sites and building new ones.

They seem to be facing a lot of issues with planning permission for new sites. Looking at planning permissions they are constantly objected to by locals and refused by the local planning authority.

Lots of the objected sites are for new monopoles in small exchanges which give to access to 10Gb fibre backhaul but due to the nature of exchanges they are generally close if not in the centre of towns.

ED E

Total no brainer to use the exchanges where the topology suits it. They need more sites, they were way behind the rest. Exchanges are already UPS supported though they may double up there etc.


We're a great old country for objecting to things that would make our lives easier. UK ops have streetpoles everywhere doing fill in, a rare sight here.

Used to have SIMs on all three nets but work contract changed during 2020 so I'm now not on VF at all. Wasnt exactly impressed in Dublin when I was on them. Fine, but nothing great. Kinda reminded me of the latter days of Telefonica.

Cork981

smuggler.ie wrote: »

Are they? Do you have any record of it or link with info?

Looks like Three have actually started using 15mhz of B1 (2100mhz) for 5G.

smuggler.ie

Cork981 wrote: »

Looks like Three have actually started using 15mhz of B1 (2100mhz) for 5G.

How interesting... just 3 months ago adjacent cells on B1 were serving 4G
What speeds you get? How far they reach?

Cork981

smuggler.ie wrote: »

How interesting... just 3 months ago adjacent cells on B1 were serving 4G
What speeds you get? How far they reach?

I wonder if they are broadcasting 4G and 5G, unfortunately the iPhone field test menu doesn’t give much information at all. Three have 35mhz band1 available so it’s possible they gave 4G and 5G 15mhz each and left a 5mhz block for UMTS which is what Vodafone have done, 15mhz for LTE and 5mhz for UMTS. Most calls are carried over 900mhz UMTS anyway.