Technique for sowing Oats (Organic)

Earnshaw

Hi there - inexperience in the area of tillage/reseeding and in need of some advice. It's a requirement of a scheme i'm in to set oats. I can find out what rates I need to sow at easily, but the way to do it is not so clear to me.

I have a small plot of ground which I intend on setting an oats and peas combicrop as well as undersowing with grass seed plus clover.

The field is grazed down quite bare by cows and calves.

So as I have planned so far - the idea is to spread dung on it. I want to avoid ploughing - so hoping it will be feasible to disc harrow the field well (give it 2 runs), then drill my oats/peas combicrop mix and then broadcast the grass seed. Then roll it.

Does this sound right?

Keepgrowing

Earnshaw wrote: »

Hi there - inexperience in the area of tillage/reseeding and in need of some advice. It's a requirement of a scheme i'm in to set oats. I can find out what rates I need to sow at easily, but the way to do it is not so clear to me.

I have a small plot of ground which I intend on setting an oats and peas combicrop as well as undersowing with grass seed plus clover.

The field is grazed down quite bare by cows and calves.

So as I have planned so far - the idea is to spread dung on it. I want to avoid ploughing - so hoping it will be feasible to disc harrow the field well (give it 2 runs), then drill my oats/peas combicrop mix and then broadcast the grass seed. Then roll it.

Does this sound right?

That would work

Bass Reeves

I think the new grass seed will struggle in that environment. Old scarws after being rolled WI grow faster than new seed especially if you get dry weather after showing. If it was August before harvest I only sis oats and peas now harvest and sow new grass into stubble and keep grazed. It might even work with late July harvest. I presume you are whole cropping the oars and peas

Ideally you should be ploughing if undersowing. But I can understand you may not be able to.

tractorporn

Earnshaw wrote: »

Hi there - inexperience in the area of tillage/reseeding and in need of some advice. It's a requirement of a scheme i'm in to set oats. I can find out what rates I need to sow at easily, but the way to do it is not so clear to me.

I have a small plot of ground which I intend on setting an oats and peas combicrop as well as undersowing with grass seed plus clover.

The field is grazed down quite bare by cows and calves.

So as I have planned so far - the idea is to spread dung on it. I want to avoid ploughing - so hoping it will be feasible to disc harrow the field well (give it 2 runs), then drill my oats/peas combicrop mix and then broadcast the grass seed. Then roll it.

Does this sound right?

You will not get away without ploughing in an organic system.

Earnshaw

tractorporn wrote: »

You will not get away without ploughing in an organic system.

Ya, just new to organic and concerned about the impact of ploughing on soil health.

Maybe I have no choice but to plough though, as you say.

blue5000

I think you'll need to plough with skimmers to bury the old scraw properly. Another option might be grow a catch/fodder crop like kale the first year and undersow grass the second year with oats and peas.

tractorporn

Earnshaw wrote: »

Ya, just new to organic and concerned about the impact of ploughing on soil health.

Maybe I have no choice but to plough though, as you say.

You have to weigh up the impact of ploughing on the soil against the next crop being smothered with weeds, especially red shank, and failing.

Earnshaw

tractorporn wrote: »

You have to weigh up the impact of ploughing on the soil against the next crop being smothered with weeds, especially red shank, and failing.

Ya I'm only putting the oats in to satisfy the criteria for the organic scheme. So it's worth weighing up this.

Birdnuts

tractorporn wrote: »

You have to weigh up the impact of ploughing on the soil against the next crop being smothered with weeds, especially red shank, and failing.

Oats produce a substance that naturally suppresses weed growth

tractorporn

Birdnuts wrote: »

Oats produce a substance that naturally suppresses weed growth

I'm sorry but you must have never grown oats organically if you believe that to be true. I lost 2 acres of husky oats last year to red shank which spread in from a headland. I had to bale it for silage before it came ripe or Flavhans would have rejected it.

tractorporn

Earnshaw wrote: »

Ya I'm only putting the oats in to satisfy the criteria for the organic scheme. So it's worth weighing up this.

You have satisfied the criteria you were accepted into the scheme, it's up to you what you do with your land now. The marking scheme was literally only for scheme acceptance there is nowhere in the T's & C's where it says that arable crops must be sown year on year! It's not like the wild bird cover measure. Did the Trust not make that clear to you?

Birdnuts

tractorporn wrote: »

I'm sorry but you must have never grown oats organically if you believe that to be true. I lost 2 acres of husky oats last year to red shank which spread in from a headland. I had to bale it for silage before it came ripe or Flavhans would have rejected it.

I said "suppresses" not "eliminates" - and yes I have grown oats in near organic setups. The phrase i was looking for earlier was "allelopathy" which is the suppression of many weeds seed germanation by oats

https://www.sare.org/Learning-Center/Books/Managing-Cover-Crops-Profitably-3rd-Edition/Text-Version/Nonlegume-Cover-Crops/Oats

"Quick to germinate, oats are a great smother crop that outcompetes weeds and also provides allelopathic residue that can hinder germination of many weeds—and some crops (see below)—for a few weeks"

Bass Reeves

Oats also had the advantage that it can be repeatedly grazed over a summer. This is carried out in Australia and the states.

tractorporn

Birdnuts wrote: »

I said "suppresses" not "eliminates" - and yes I have grown oats in near organic setups. The phrase i was looking for earlier was "allelopathy" which is the suppression of many weeds seed germanation by oats

https://www.sare.org/Learning-Center/Books/Managing-Cover-Crops-Profitably-3rd-Edition/Text-Version/Nonlegume-Cover-Crops/Oats

"Quick to germinate, oats are a great smother crop that outcompetes weeds and also provides allelopathic residue that can hinder germination of many weeds—and some crops (see below)—for a few weeks"

Near organic is the same as almost pregnant it just isn't.

Oats do out compete and smother a lot of weeds but you will need to plough that ground first to bury the weed burden or the crop will not get a good enough of a start to be able to do that and yield will suffer as a consequence. Which was the OP's initial question.

tractorporn

tractorporn wrote: »

Near organic is the same as almost pregnant it just isn't.

Sorry I'm not having a go at you personally but I have a real problem with people who try and pass off their produce as organic. We have a girl in the local farmers market who claims that she is organic but when you ask to see her certification she rolls back and says she is pesticide free. If you want to say your organic pay your licence fee and adhere to the regs like the rest of us. Sorry for the rant it just really annoys me.

Birdnuts

tractorporn wrote: »

Sorry I'm not having a go at you personally but I have a real problem with people who try and pass off their produce as organic. We have a girl in the local farmers market who claims that she is organic but when you ask to see her certification she rolls back and says she is pesticide free. If you want to say your organic pay your licence fee and adhere to the regs like the rest of us. Sorry for the rant it just really annoys me.

I wasn't trying to pass it off as anything - the plot I mentioned was being grown as game cover and very succesfull it was too despite having no herbicides applied. Indeed it was some of the best baled wholecrop I ever produced