Debenhams gone bust

Darc19

Interesting to see no posts about this yet.

Shows how uninteresting their stores were that no one seems to have noticed.

Sad time for their staff as there will not be many retail positions available for a while.

Elemonator

Lots of retail jobs going in the food sector and distribution. Hopefully they can go there.

topmanamillion

Debenhams/Roaches never really modernised in the same way say the likes of Dunnes went into exclusive fashion and homeware brands.

They seemed to be completely invested in the department store model and were mowed over by Brown Thomas at the higher end and Dunnes and Penny's at the mid to lower end.

They won't be missed by many outside of the 2000 people who've unfortunately lost their jobs.

Atlantic Dawn

I can't for the live of me see who will take over the leases, the shops they have are huge. Pension funds will need to bite the bullet and take a massive chop in rent for it to appeal to anyone.

Xertz

Debenhams was on very shaky ground long before COVID-19. It was almost inevitable that it was going to go sometime, but this has just pushed it into a crisis.

The parent company is £600 million in debt and owned by largely hedge funds. I can't see how anyone would be keen to invest in a company that has a brick and mortar department store business model in the current situation.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/09/debenhams-appoints-administrators-and-liquidates-irish-chain

It's very unfortunate for the staff and I hope they find employment elsewhere soon.

Also worth noting that the flagship city centre buildings in Cork and Dublin and I assume elsewhere are still owned by Roches. Debenhams was only the operator. So they may open again, but as something else.

I can't see anyone being in a rush to open a general mid-range department store and to be quite honest Debenhams was extremely bland. It survives in England on its brand name legacy but, it has no such legacy here.

L1011

Wanted to get a light raincoat in November last year. Arnotts had nothing useful at all.

Debenhams across the road did - good brand marked down >50% too.


But the major difference was that Arnotts was crowded - every bit of the shop was busy, there weren't seats to be had in the food concessions and so on. Debenhams was deathly quiet; no till queues or anything.

Tide went out on them fashion and trend wise; unfortunately for the staff many of whom will have been there decades since Roches.

Zaph

Darc19 wrote: »

Interesting to see no posts about this yet.

Shows how uninteresting their stores were that no one seems to have noticed.

Sad time for their staff as there will not be many retail positions available for a while.

I've seen posts in at least 3 regional forums, Work problems, the Coronavirus forum and no doubt there are others. There are people discussing it, just not in this forum.

Xertz

L1011 wrote: »

Tide went out on them fashion and trend wise; unfortunately for the staff many of whom will have been there decades since Roches.

To be honest, I'm not sure the tide ever came in for them in the first place. They've never really been very exciting, certainly not in the time that they were in the Irish market anyway. They always struck me as a store that maybe had its heyday in the 1950s-70s.

Roches always seemed to be a store that people had a great deal of nostalgia for and I know in Dublin and Cork a lot of people continued to call Debenhams Roches.

Steer55

It really is devastating for all the staff currently off due to Covid and tonight finding out their jobs are gone for good. Very very sad.

Caranica

The rip off Euro prices v Sterling had a lot to do with it. M&S regularly do 20% off promotions to counteract this. Debenhams did feck all!

Darc19

topmanamillion wrote: »

Debenhams/Roaches never really modernised in the same way say the likes of Dunnes went into exclusive fashion and homeware brands.

They seemed to be completely invested in the department store model and were mowed over by Brown Thomas at the higher end and Dunnes and Penny's at the mid to lower end.

They won't be missed by many outside of the 2000 people who've unfortunately lost their jobs.

I couldn't have said it better and you hit the nail on the head.

Darc19

Caranica wrote: »

The rip off Euro prices v Sterling had a lot to do with it. M&S regularly do 20% off promotions to counteract this. Debenhams did feck all!

£1 = €1.55 and they probably thought no one noticed 😂

Time

Xertz wrote: »

To be honest, I'm not sure the tide ever came in for them in the first place. They've never really been very exciting, certainly not in the time that they were in the Irish market anyway. They always struck me as a store that maybe had its heyday in the 1950s-70s.

Roches always seemed to be a store that people had a great deal of nostalgia for and I know in Dublin and Cork a lot of people continued to call Debenhams Roches.

Clerys was the same, people loved to talk about how they loved it, but they never shopped there so it went under.

igCorcaigh

Are vouchers still valid for online shopping?

Atlantic Dawn

Time wrote: »

Clerys was the same, people loved to talk about how they loved it, but they never shopped there so it went under.

The redesign they did was incredibly poor in comparison to what Arnotts did, it was cheaply done and no premium experience at all.

Darc19

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Are vouchers still valid for online shopping?

No, they are bust and in liquidation. You are now an unsecured creditor.

Their irish online store is meant to be closed. Maybe try and order asap and see if the gift card is accepted

Caranica

sugarman wrote: »

Was also in a fairly run down part of the city surrounded by discount retailers and fast food restaurants. Boyer's was the same.

Had they been in a prime area on Grafton or Henry St they may very well have survived if they took the Brown or Arnotts modern approach and adapted.

There were 11 Debenhams in Ireland. It's not all about Henry Street/Ilac. Pretty sure the collapse was down to more than one store..and online had a lot to do with it. Once Parcel Motel and the rest came on, people copped fairly quickly that it was a LOT cheaper to shop on the UK site.

I remember life before Debenhams in Ireland-I never warmed to it as a shop or a brand- I wouldn’t have shopped for clothes there- most of their household stuff could be got in Arnotts or Home Store or more recently in House of Fraser (which is also in trouble I believe )Sad times for the staff but not unexpected considering they were reported as being in trouble financially anyway, like many of the well known high st. UK brands- I’d be expecting a few more to fall over coming months

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

I remember life before Debenhams in Ireland-I never warmed to it as a shop or a brand- I wouldn’t have shopped for clothes there- most of their household stuff could be got in Arnotts or Home Store or more recently in House of Fraser (which is also in trouble I believe )Sad times for the staff but not unexpected considering they were reported as being in trouble financially anyway, like many of the well known high st. UK brands- I’d be expecting a few more to fall over coming months

House of Fraser has been bought by Sports Direct and is leaving Ireland. The store was to be split between two different sides of the Weston family - Brown Thomas and Penneys - but everything is on hold now.

Atlantic Dawn

sugarman wrote: »

Was also in a fairly run down part of the city surrounded by discount retailers and fast food restaurants. Boyer's was the same.

Had they been in a prime area on Grafton or Henry St they may very well have survived if they took the Brown or Arnotts modern approach and adapted.

Yes I passed by Clerys a few weeks back before the lockdown, pretty much only the external walls are retained, the rest of the building is more or less gutted including the roof. The amount of money they are going to spend now making it in to the place to be will only be a success if there's a complete ethnic clensing of lifelong scummers hanging around the area, it's turned in to an absolute kip that wouldn't justify premium rent.

I remember hearing rumours that Apple or IKEA might take over part of it as tenants, oh how I laughed

L1011

L1011 wrote: »

House of Fraser has been bought by Sports Direct and is leaving Ireland. The store was to be split between two different sides of the Weston family - Brown Thomas and Penneys - but everything is on hold now.

The concept of owning or setting up a business which is dependent on 1000s of people daily jostling past each other has all of a sudden become laughable - up to now online shopping was the big challenge to bricks and mortar stores- it looks like we could be forced to social distance for some time and maybe annually for a few months- that’s not going to suit most retail models

Richard Hillman

I really don't see what could go into the Henry Street outlet. The only option really is for the floors to be segmented off and made into a mini shopping centre. Or a giant food hall.

I'm not sure about House of Fraser tbh. Pretty much all of the HOF Concessions are across the road at Arnotts. The Arnotts rents for concessions are pretty high but they provide more security. There may also be a case of HOF staying in Dundrum, as Penneys are now reluctant to move and Brown Thomas may be turned off moving BT2 there with the economy falling off a cliff.

It's also a massive loss to the newly refurbished Blackrock shopping centre.

Bikerman2019

Darc19 wrote: »

No, they are bust and in liquidation. You are now an unsecured creditor.

Their irish online store is meant to be closed. Maybe try and order asap and see if the gift card is accepted

It appears they are still good.


"A spokesperson for Debenhams said that vouchers and gift cards purchased in Irish stores were still valid and could be used on the store's website."

Quote from RTE.ie



If I were you, I would get online RIGHT NOW and spend your card, just in case.

L1011

HoF are gone; its the centre doing the deal to get the new tenants not them. They won't be staying.

Richard Hillman

L1011 wrote: »

HoF are gone; its the centre doing the deal to get the new tenants not them. They won't be staying.

I am aware of that. Dundrum will be hard pressed to get a new tenant though if Penneys are a no go and BT2 back out. As much as they want rid of HOF, they may be left with no other choice.

But like I said with Debenhams in Henry Street, they may segment the area out for smaller outlets. That would be at their own cost though.

Xertz

They're a major anchor store in Mahon Point in Cork too, pretty large store.

igCorcaigh

Xertz wrote: »

They're a major anchor store in Mahon Point in Cork too, pretty large store.

There seems to be mostly external outlets housed in the Patrick Street location. I wonder what happens them?

Will the rent on the building still be paid to the Roche family (if I'm correct that that is the situation)?

L1011

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I am aware of that. Dundrum will be hard pressed to get a new tenant though if Penneys are a no go and BT2 back out. As much as they want rid of HOF, they may be left with no other choice.

But like I said with Debenhams in Henry Street, they may segment the area out for smaller outlets. That would be at their own cost though.

Except its not Dundrum looking rid of HoF, its HoF looking rid of a loss making shop. They're gone.

Geuze

Retail rents are way too high here, they need to fall.

JP Liz V1

Caranica wrote: »

The rip off Euro prices v Sterling had a lot to do with it. M&S regularly do 20% off promotions to counteract this. Debenhams did feck all!

Their blue cross 70% sales never had 70% off but I will still miss Debenhams, big loss to Cork, city centre has many vacant buildings, less foot fall traffic and Mahon Point shopping centre biggest unit was Debenhams

Xertz

igCorcaigh wrote: »

There seems to be mostly external outlets housed in the Patrick Street location. I wonder what happens them?

Will the rent on the building still be paid to the Roche family (if I'm correct that that is the situation)?

You mean the make-up concessions and so on? They would be part of the Debenhams setup, so they'e all gone once the main doors close. It's the same in Henry Street in Dublin.

I could see Cork probably landing a large Zara in some of the Roches location in Patrick's Street though eventually. I can't see any retailers rushing in until the economy gets back on its feet though, unless they're offered extremely lucrative leases.

The landlords will have to get realistic about rents though as there isn't really going to be a huge demand for retail space for a while.

Richard Hillman

L1011 wrote: »

Except its not Dundrum looking rid of HoF, its HoF looking rid of a loss making shop. They're gone.

No, it was the centre looking to get rid of HOF. HOF/Sports Direct were trying to renegotiate the rents and it didn't go down well. The Centre were also very unhappy with HOF in terms of health and safety, hygiene, HOF moving from premium shopping to discount shopping and Sports Direct moving Sports gear into the shop (Lifestyle, JD etc were very unhappy).

I should note that I used to work there.

Apparently HOF Dundrum was profitable but I don't believe it. Anything that went though the tills belonged to the Concessions.

L1011

Richard Hillman wrote: »

No, it was the centre looking to get rid of HOF. HOF/Sports Direct were trying to renegotiate the rents and it didn't go down well. The Centre were also very unhappy with HOF in terms of health and safety, hygiene, HOF moving from premium shopping to discount shopping and Sports Direct moving Sports gear into the shop (Lifestyle, JD etc were very unhappy).

I should note that I used to work there.

Apparently HOF Dundrum was profitable but I don't believe it. Anything that went though the tills belonged to the Concessions.

Even if this is correct, it does not vaguely suggest HoF will stay there. They're gone.

Xertz

Xertz wrote: »

They're a major anchor store in Mahon Point in Cork too, pretty large store.

Malls/shopping centres all over the world are dying - I’d say a number of other businesses in that centre will now fold as there just won’t be the footfall to sustain them -sad times.

TheDriver

Debenhams was a goner long before this virus. Lot of stuff was overpriced. You could buy the same looking item in many of their different brands for different prices. Their stupid constant blue cross sales where everything was the same price as the week before.
Interestingly, they did a massive sale on Patricks weekend online, 30% off even sale stuff
Their clothes were gone expensive and bland.

Icsics

I’ll miss the constant sale on beauty, always got good deals & ‘free gifts’!

silver2020

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Their blue cross 70% sales never had 70% off but I will still miss Debenhams, big loss to Cork, city centre has many vacant buildings, less foot fall traffic and Mahon Point shopping centre biggest unit was Debenhams

You must have missed the words "Up to". I think they assumed all shoppers would bring their magnifying glass with them.

It was never a store I went into, either here or when I lived in the UK. Always came across as boring.