No management ambitions

happywithlife

Being the time of year it is I find myself seeing a lot of post-grad/ management / leadership courses advertised at the moment
I've no ambition for management but often think I'm the only one? I love teaching. I love my subjects. The kids (most of the time lol)
Maybe because I'm in a smallish staff I feel maybe i should be more ambitious or something? I'm run off my feet doing lots of voluntary stuff and frankly its enough.
Is it the way teaching is gone that's it's expected after a few years teaching people move on to leadership roles ? Or are more people happy "just" teaching?
interested to see others' views

mirrorwall14

happywithlife wrote: »

Being the time of year it is I find myself seeing a lot of post-grad/ management / leadership courses advertised at the moment
I've no ambition for management but often think I'm the only one? I love teaching. I love my subjects. The kids (most of the time lol)
Maybe because I'm in a smallish staff I feel maybe i should be more ambitious or something? I'm run off my feet doing lots of voluntary stuff and frankly its enough.
Is it the way teaching is gone that's it's expected after a few years teaching people move on to leadership roles ? Or are more people happy "just" teaching?
interested to see others' views

I was leaning towards posts until I had my second. Now I’m far more realistic, I need to teach the 40 years as my husbands pension is crap. If I’m to do that and not burn out I am not touching posts or management with a barge pole. So nope, you are not alone!

lmullen

happywithlife wrote: »

Being the time of year it is I find myself seeing a lot of post-grad/ management / leadership courses advertised at the moment
I've no ambition for management but often think I'm the only one? I love teaching. I love my subjects. The kids (most of the time lol)
Maybe because I'm in a smallish staff I feel maybe i should be more ambitious or something? I'm run off my feet doing lots of voluntary stuff and frankly its enough.
Is it the way teaching is gone that's it's expected after a few years teaching people move on to leadership roles ? Or are more people happy "just" teaching?
interested to see others' views

I feel exactly the same - especially with 2 small ones at home! I enjoy teaching my subjects and get on well with most of my students! I'm happy in my classroom for now!

williaint

I was always far more interested in my subject area than "rising" to management but as a LPT with nearly 10 years experience, I am starting to think I may *have to* apply for posts in the future if I want to be able to afford a mortgage in the Dublin area.

I know people say oh well a B Post is only worth €70 net extra per fortnight but still when you're on a lower pay scale every little bit helps...especially when you're trying to borrow.

For a lot of people I don't think it's a race to the top, it's just a means to increase their salary and pay their mortgage!

Millem

No desire to go for a post. In my current school 12/13 years. Our conditions have been slowing eroding in that time.

2 young children with another one on the way. I can’t even see myself working full time for at least the next 6 years tbh. It doesn’t make financial sense anyway with the cost of childcare.
I do some other work bits on the side e.g. SEC work.

RealJohn

I was never that interested in management, but I felt like I had to apply for the raft of B posts that came up last year. When I was passed over in favour of younger, less experienced teachers with no management experience, in spite of the fact that I do have management experience in various settings (including education), I made the decision that I won’t be wasting my time with that again.

r93kaey5p2izun

I was not interested when I was teaching because I think the whole management and post structure of Irish schools is ludicrous and inefficient. The notion of non specialised positions with everyone being supposedly able to do any and all jobs is a farce. The system also fails to address the difference between the need for people to carry out specialist or technical roles in addition to their teaching, versus the need for managers and leaders. In my experience the result in recent years has largely been promotion of lots of leaders and managers, of varying quality and effectiveness, while the samenon promoted people are relied upon to carry out the vital specialist roles. It was another thing that turned me off continuing my career in teaching.

doc_17

happywithlife wrote: »

Being the time of year it is I find myself seeing a lot of post-grad/ management / leadership courses advertised at the moment
I've no ambition for management but often think I'm the only one? I love teaching. I love my subjects. The kids (most of the time lol)
Maybe because I'm in a smallish staff I feel maybe i should be more ambitious or something? I'm run off my feet doing lots of voluntary stuff and frankly its enough.
Is it the way teaching is gone that's it's expected after a few years teaching people move on to leadership roles ? Or are more people happy "just" teaching?
interested to see others' views

You’re not interested now but maybe you might be interested in the future? And if so you will be far better equipped to apply if you had qualification in it.

So I suppose if that’s something you thing might happen you then maybe if it suits to do it next year then you should at least consider it. Maybe if a management post came up in the future that you thought would be a good fit for you and you wanted it you could be sorry you didn’t make yourself the most attractive candidate possible.

But if you really don’t want management then steer clear of them. Don’t put yourself through it. You sound busy enough.

TheDriver

doc_17 wrote: »

You’re not interested now but maybe you might be interested in the future? And if so you will be far better equipped to apply if you had qualification in it.

So I suppose if that’s something you thing might happen you then maybe if it suits to do it next year then you should at least consider it. Maybe if a management post came up in the future that you thought would be a good fit for you and you wanted it you could be sorry you didn’t make yourself the most attractive candidate possible.

But if you really don’t want management then steer clear of them. Don’t put yourself through it. You sound busy enough.

Management and leadership isn't for everyone. You don't have to aspire to be Principal or be a post holder. But if you have any interest in being part of the decision making process, then you need to be looking to be part of it and preparing.
I was always wanting to be part of the leadership team. I see others who don't and that's fine too, they're great practitioners in the classroom and the school in general. The only issue I have is those who give out about the management but never want to put themselves in those shoes. But they are few and far between.

doc_17

TheDriver wrote: »

Management and leadership isn't for everyone. You don't have to aspire to be Principal or be a post holder. But if you have any interest in being part of the decision making process, then you need to be looking to be part of it and preparing.
I was always wanting to be part of the leadership team. I see others who don't and that's fine too, they're great practitioners in the classroom and the school in general. The only issue I have is those who give out about the management but never want to put themselves in those shoes. But they are few and far between.

Some people just don’t want it though as you said. Sit in staff meetings and correct work and then ask the next week why something is now being done differently!

happywithlife

Thanks everyone. Interesting posts. First of all I'm glad not to be only one. I take on board the points about leadership in the future (but absolutely not upper management) I participate in enough voluntary committees that I'm happy to have input where I can and for now thats enough

Treppen

I've seen too many people shot down after showing their hand and putting in extra work to impress. It's gotten to the point now where it's backfired and positions are remaining unfilled because the goodwill is in short supply.

I'm of the view now that you'll be given the nod if you're wanted.

Might be different if you're in a small school though.

jayo76

As somebody who now has close on 20 years teaching in the one school I have to say I have no interest in even applying for a B post or an AP2 as they are called now. My satisfaction in my career I have to say lies totally in my interaction with students and my subject. I love the day to day interactions with students and the day that goes for me I will move on. I do give and will continue to give as long as I can hours of voluntary service in taking sports teams in school, debating teams and school trips. I do also recognise that for many of my colleagues they want the challenge of moving in to managerial roles or post holders and I commend and support them 100% for that. Others I see applying as they have to financially and I have to admit this is not a concern for me with a mortgage and family situation that is under control.

I must also say my opinions are also coloured by my experiences of my own school where Senior Management view Middle management or post holders merely as rubber stamping agents who have no real voice in decision making. I understand fully this is not the case in many many schools where there is a collaborative approach and post holders opinions are truely valued. We are all shaped by our own experiences though and mine is not this collaborative staff management approach. This is not a post to berate management as I fully recognise how difficult a job it is, I have had it said it to me many times I would make a great VP or Principal but as outlined above its not a job I would take on. However in our school staff, post holders and non post holders alike are denied any say in decision making. If I was in a different school would my attitude to applying for a post be different, quite possibly.

I do also feel the new system has made things much worse. In new posts granted last year two members of staff with over 25 years in the school each were passed over in favour of people with much less experience. In both cases the people passed over have taken on so many responsibilities in the school voluntarily and helped management so much. They would however be people who would have questioned the lack of collaboration in decision making in the school. One person who got a post ahead of them has 2 years in our school, 6 in total with no management experience. How does that equate to fairness? The damage that has done to staff morale is untold and has put a whole cohort of staff off applying for future posts.

beveragelady

I've been teaching for 14 years and I've never had any interest in a post. Early on I was pressured into applying to be the TY coordinator in the second school I taught in. The application process and interview were grand but it went to somebody much more experienced. Fair enough, no problem there. The thing is, the joyful relief when I was sympathetically told that I didn't get it was overwhelming.

I've often said that the only bit of the job I like is the classroom. I hate admin of any sort and I'm rubbish at it.

I have seen so many people miserable because they were promoted past their capabilities. The job has become either a prolonged exercise in denial or a stumble from disaster to disaster. Others who are capable are asked to take on extra workload to carry the useless ones. Very few manage to balance normal class workload and post workload.

My mortgage is tiny, my needs are few. I will never need money so badly that I'm willing to make my job a misery.

Icsics

The post situations in a lot of schools is interesting. Most of our posts went to teachers with less experience, but who won’t rock the boat. But then my recent experience of P & VP positions being filled is similar, often inexperienced member of ‘interview panel’ choosing unsuitable candidates. Interesting times ahead for education

2011abc

Yeah and at the rate its going the 20something even more ruthless backstabbers will soon be passing out the 30somethings who got the early lead on their senior colleagues in the last decade.You soon wont find a classroom teacher over 45 left unless theyre the 'type' who are into (self)promotion .Pension be damned !Young teachers dropping out in droves whether to take career breaks at unfeasibly young ages or actually resigning permanent posts due to payscale inequality .

LC2016

Just wondering are there any management/leadership job opportunities in primary school other than principal and vice principal?