Accountants should be getting a commission on client Mortgages

v638sg7k1a92bx

Maybe I'm the one who is being unreasonable and please tell me if I am but is it just me or are clients utterly dependent on the accounts and letters we give to banks and brokers in order for them to secure a mortgage and yet a broker will take all the information that we prepare (the real info), pass it onto a bank and then the broker gets 1% commission, (€3000 on a mortgage of 300k) and the accountant charges nothing on the basis that we get a fee for the year end accounts!

What am I missing here? The whole deal is based on the information we provide and the opinion we give yet everyone else gets paid, the solicitor, the broker, the surveyor and we get nothing!

Same thing goes for pension contributions at tax deadline. We prepare the accounts, calculate the tax, calculate how much of a pension contribution is needed but the broker will earn more on commissions than we will on preparing the tax return and taking the risk???

Am I missing something here, why are we as accountants undervaluing our services by giving it away for free?

davindub

Princeton Powerful Dingo wrote: »

Maybe I'm the one who is being unreasonable and please tell me if I am but is it just me or are clients utterly dependent on the accounts and letters we give to banks and brokers in order for them to secure a mortgage and yet a broker will take all the information that we prepare (the real info), pass it onto a bank and then the broker gets 1% commission, (€3000 on a mortgage of 300k) and the accountant charges nothing on the basis that we get a fee for the year end accounts!

What am I missing here? The whole deal is based on the information we provide and the opinion we give yet everyone else gets paid, the solicitor, the broker, the surveyor and we get nothing!

Same thing goes for pension contributions at tax deadline. We prepare the accounts, calculate the tax, calculate how much of a pension contribution is needed but the broker will earn more on commissions than we will on preparing the tax return and taking the risk???

Am I missing something here, why are we as accountants undervaluing our services by giving it away for free?

No, the broker is paid by the bank not the client.

You charge for the accounts and can charge what the market will bear for ancillary services.

v638sg7k1a92bx

davindub wrote: »

No, the broker is paid by the bank not the client.

You charge for the accounts and can charge what the market will bear for ancillary services.

I don’t care if the bank or the client pays but the that’s the issue, accountants should bill accordingly for ancillary high value services. The whole deal is dependent on the accountant but yet they don’t charge for it.

We have the clients and we have the information they need to get a mortgage yet we gift wrap this info to a third party to cash in on. Makes no sense from a business perspective.

mountai

You do the negotiations with the Financial Source then and claim from them .

99nsr125

You're being unreasonable, even gree . . .

Princeton Powerful Dingo wrote: »

Maybe I'm the one who is being unreasonable and please tell me if I am but is it just me or are clients utterly dependent on the accounts and letters we give to banks and brokers in order for them to secure a mortgage and yet a broker will take all the information that we prepare (the real info), pass it onto a bank and then the broker gets 1% commission, (€3000 on a mortgage of 300k) and the accountant charges nothing on the basis that we get a fee for the year end accounts!

What am I missing here? The whole deal is based on the information we provide and the opinion we give yet everyone else gets paid, the solicitor, the broker, the surveyor and we get nothing!

Same thing goes for pension contributions at tax deadline. We prepare the accounts, calculate the tax, calculate how much of a pension contribution is needed but the broker will earn more on commissions than we will on preparing the tax return and taking the risk???

Am I missing something here, why are we as accountants undervaluing our services by giving it away for free?

tdf7187

I don't think OP is being unreasonable at all. Solicitors charge for sending a damn one page letter, accountants often end up being screwed by their clients.

Jim2007

Princeton Powerful Dingo wrote: »

I don’t care if the bank or the client pays but the that’s the issue, accountants should bill accordingly for ancillary high value services. The whole deal is dependent on the accountant but yet they don’t charge for it.

We have the clients and we have the information they need to get a mortgage yet we gift wrap this info to a third party to cash in on. Makes no sense from a business perspective.

That would defeat the entire purpose of an independence of the profession. If you think your services are worth more then up your fees, if you want to fleece clients with commissions find a job that lets you do that.

boring accountant

This seems to be a cultural thing where accountants always under price and do little bits here there for free. We seem to miss the point that we’re members of a cartel, but Lawyers certainly don’t!

listermint

You got into accountancy I'd imagine your paid well enough.

You've two options

- get out of it.

- Change your charging structure whilst retaining the same clients.

Jim2007

boring accountant wrote: »

This seems to be a cultural thing where accountants always under price and do little bits here there for free. We seem to miss the point that we’re members of a cartel, but Lawyers certainly don’t!

There is nothing stopping you from charging whatever fees you want.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Jim2007 wrote: »

That would defeat the entire purpose of an independence of the profession. If you think your services are worth more then up your fees, if you want to fleece clients with commissions find a job that lets you do that.

Independence of the profession? If that was the case we wouldn't be allowed do tax, co sec or any other work.

Where does it sat Accountants are not allowed receive commissions?

v638sg7k1a92bx

boring accountant wrote: »

This seems to be a cultural thing where accountants always under price and do little bits here there for free. We seem to miss the point that we’re members of a cartel, but Lawyers certainly don’t!

My point exactly, see this thread here https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058066658

davindub

Princeton Powerful Dingo wrote: »

Independence of the profession? If that was the case we wouldn't be allowed do tax, co sec or any other work.

Where does it sat Accountants are not allowed receive commissions?

You would need to disclose to the client that you will recieve a commission.

Probably stated in your bodies code of ethics.

Anyway what you probably mean is you want to be paid for preparing the documents and you can bill for these, you might lose the client.....

lawred2

Princeton Powerful Dingo wrote: »

I don’t care if the bank or the client pays but the that’s the issue, accountants should bill accordingly for ancillary high value services. The whole deal is dependent on the accountant but yet they don’t charge for it.

We have the clients and we have the information they need to get a mortgage yet we gift wrap this info to a third party to cash in on. Makes no sense from a business perspective.

You do charge for professional services no?

Why do you think you should charge commission?

v638sg7k1a92bx

lawred2 wrote: »

You do charge for professional services no?

Why do you think you should charge commission?

Professional service is one thing. Giving an a tax opinion or an opinion on a set of financial services is separate which is what brokers and banks require for loan applications.

I think accountants should be charging for this opinion as they are the one taking the risk. The banks and brokers know that accountants have PI insurance which is the reason the ask for these letters to leverage the risk and most accountants give this service for free!

I can't imagine a solicitor giving an undertaking on a loan for a client that they provide separate commercial advice for but as accountants we do free work for clients all the time.

v638sg7k1a92bx

davindub wrote: »

You would need to disclose to the client that you will recieve a commission.

Probably stated in your bodies code of ethics.

Anyway what you probably mean is you want to be paid for preparing the documents and you can bill for these, you might lose the client.....

I think that is what most accountants are afraid of, but at what stage do you undervalue your services to the extent that it's not worth the risk or worth getting out of bed? This is why so many practices are in a state of chasis.

lawred2

Princeton Powerful Dingo wrote: »

Professional service is one thing. Giving an a tax opinion or an opinion on a set of financial services is separate which is what brokers and banks require for loan applications.

I think accountants should be charging for this opinion as they are the one taking the risk. The banks and brokers know that accountants have PI insurance which is the reason the ask for these letters to leverage the risk and most accountants give this service for free!

I can't imagine a solicitor giving an undertaking on a loan for a client that they provide separate commercial advice for but as accountants we do free work for clients all the time.

Fair enough. They should charge the bank directly. A fee. But not commission.

v638sg7k1a92bx

lawred2 wrote: »

Fair enough. They should charge the bank directly. A fee. But not commission.

Fee, commission, stipend or whatever you're having yourself.

Since I've returned to Ireland after working in practice in NZ and Aus for 7 years, I realised when I came back how badly small and medium accountancy practices are managed and operated in Ireland. Over there, they run their practice the way we advise our clients to run their business but don't actually do it ourselves because we're are too busy chasing our tail doing work for FREE!

I honestly think that many accountancy practices in Ireland are not viable businesses and this crisis is going to put push a lot of accountants into retirement.

Jim2007

Princeton Powerful Dingo wrote: »

Professional service is one thing. Giving an a tax opinion or an opinion on a set of financial services is separate which is what brokers and banks require for loan applications.

I think accountants should be charging for this opinion as they are the one taking the risk. The banks and brokers know that accountants have PI insurance which is the reason the ask for these letters to leverage the risk and most accountants give this service for free!

I can't imagine a solicitor giving an undertaking on a loan for a client that they provide separate commercial advice for but as accountants we do free work for clients all the time.

When you are qualified you can run your business whatever way you like. In the mean time it is up to your employer how to run their business.

Cyrus

the answer is simple, dont do work for free and charge what you think is fair, if your service is good clients will stay, if it isnt they wont.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Jim2007 wrote: »

When you are qualified you can run your business whatever way you like. In the mean time it is up to your employer how to run their business.

Stick to the coding over Luxembourg or wherever it is and leave practice to us real accountants. You haven't worked in practice in twenty years, you're out of the game just let it go.

Anyway, I thought you had put me on your ignore list.

tdf7187

boring accountant wrote: »

This seems to be a cultural thing where accountants always under price and do little bits here there for free. We seem to miss the point that we’re members of a cartel, but Lawyers certainly don’t!

Totally agree.

v638sg7k1a92bx

boring accountant wrote: »

This seems to be a cultural thing where accountants always under price and do little bits here there for free. We seem to miss the point that we’re members of a cartel, but Lawyers certainly don’t!

Difference with solicitors is that there is only one Law Society whereas there are four or five accountancy bodies which all come under the scope IAASA and CCAB-I.

As Robert Baratheon said..."which is the bigger number. 5 or 1?"