Best way to 20k

yourdeadwright

Hey guys
I'm totally new to road running I'm nearly hitting 40 but Iv kept reasonable fit, played plenty of football and the likes but I'm new to trying running for times and what not,

I want to be bale to complete a decent half marathon this year, I'm just wondering what the best way to build up to it training wise,

I started a 2 months ago just doing 5k twice a week , currently I'm doing it at about 22/23 minutes and I ran my first 10k in years last week at 45 minutes ,

I'm just wondering if I can manage 3 runs a week what kind of K should I doing on them runs to get my fitness up to 20k and then to post a half decent time ,

The furthest iv ever ran is 10 k so far,

Fenster

There are a million plans out there. My club members swear by this Nike plan: https://www.nike.com/ch/en/running/half-marathon-training-plan

Swiper the fox

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Hey guys
I'm totally new to road running I'm nearly hitting 40 but Iv kept reasonable fit, played plenty of football and the likes but I'm new to trying running for times and what not,

I want to be bale to complete a decent half marathon this year, I'm just wondering what the best way to build up to it training wise,

I started a 2 months ago just doing 5k twice a week , currently I'm doing it at about 22/23 minutes and I ran my first 10k in years last week at 45 minutes ,

I'm just wondering if I can manage 3 runs a week what kind of K should I doing on them runs to get my fitness up to 20k and then to post a half decent time ,

The furthest iv ever ran is 10 k so far,

I was in a similar position about two years ago, a little slower than you back then but a few years older,
It’ll be simple enough to get up to half marathon, the full is a different beast, just up your mileage bit by bit, two 5k runs during the week and a weekend long run, starting at ten and building up 20 over 6 or 7 weeks, you’d be well able for that as you’re clearly in good shape, a sub 1;40 half marathon would be well achievable in race conditions

yourdeadwright

Swiper the fox wrote: »

I was in a similar position about two years ago, a little slower than you back then but a few years older,
It’ll be simple enough to get up to half marathon, the full is a different beast, just up your mileage bit by bit, two 5k runs during the week and a weekend long run, starting at ten and building up 20 over 6 or 7 weeks, you’d be well able for that as you’re clearly in good shape, a sub 1;40 half marathon would be well achievable in race conditions

The plan is to tackle a few half's and then get a full one in, I'd like to train for a year or two properly before entertaining a full marathon,

I find it near impossible to pace myself in fact my 10 k average was quicker than any of my 5ks and that wasn't by design, I just went out and ran if u get me,

I guess the more I do it the more experienced ill become

Swiper the fox

yourdeadwright wrote: »

The plan is to tackle a few half's and then get a full one in, I'd like to train for a year or two properly before entertaining a full marathon,

I find it near impossible to pace myself in fact my 10 k average was quicker than any of my 5ks and that wasn't by design, I just went out and ran if u get me,

I guess the more I do it the more experienced ill become

Ya, I never ran at slower than my goal marathon pace 5:00 per K, 8::00 per mile until I actually ran the marathon and broke down at mile 22, no matter how I tried I’d just get into rhythm and run at that ace or quicker,
You’d be amazed at how much quicker you’d go in a race, I assume your 45 min 10k was a race, you’d probably go sub 21 at a parkrun and take a couple of minutes off that 45 easily and quickly with a bit of training, you found a lot like myself,
The half is tough in race conditions but getting up to 20k in training is apiece of piss when you’re running as well as that straight off the bat

yourdeadwright

Swiper the fox wrote: »

Ya, I never ran at slower than my goal marathon pace 5:00 per K, 8::00 per mile until I actually ran the marathon and broke down at mile 22, no matter how I tried I’d just get into rhythm and run at that ace or quicker,
You’d be amazed at how much quicker you’d go in a race, I assume your 45 min 10k was a race, you’d probably go sub 21 at a parkrun and take a couple of minutes off that 45 easily and quickly with a bit of training, you found a lot like myself,
The half is tough in race conditions but getting up to 20k in training is apiece of piss when you’re running as well as that straight off the bat

No my 10k was just me out by myself ,

Yes because I'm so new I kind of have one pace if that makes sense, I don't feel comfortable going slower or something I just end up at in and around the same pace,

I haven't done a park run yet either I must start when they come back ,

Lazare

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Hey guys
I'm totally new to road running I'm nearly hitting 40 but Iv kept reasonable fit, played plenty of football and the likes but I'm new to trying running for times and what not,

I want to be bale to complete a decent half marathon this year, I'm just wondering what the best way to build up to it training wise,

I started a 2 months ago just doing 5k twice a week , currently I'm doing it at about 22/23 minutes and I ran my first 10k in years last week at 45 minutes ,

I'm just wondering if I can manage 3 runs a week what kind of K should I doing on them runs to get my fitness up to 20k and then to post a half decent time ,

The furthest iv ever ran is 10 k so far,

You're running way too fast.

Slow things right down, assuming 22-23 min 5k is your all out effort, leaving you gassed you should be running the majority in and around 6:00 min kms, barring the odd bunch of strides.

Do that for 6 to 8 weeks, slowly building up your mileage, to include a long run.

Keep the effort really easy, build an aerobic base while minimising injury risk, then introduce specific workouts. For the half marathon that's mostly tempo (lactate threshold) running. Have the odd all out blowout if you wish, but keep it to an absolute minimum.


Build up to a minimum of about 50 km per week before you start a training plan and go smash it.

Payton

Lazare wrote: »

You're running way too fast.

Slow things right down, assuming 22-23 min 5k is your all out effort, leaving you gassed you should be running the majority in and around 6:00 min kms, barring the odd bunch of strides.

Do that for 6 to 8 weeks, slowly building up your mileage, to include a long run.

Keep the effort really easy, build an aerobic base while minimising injury risk, then introduce specific workouts. For the half marathon that's mostly tempo (lactate threshold) running. Have the odd all out blowout if you wish, but keep it to an absolute minimum.


Build up to a minimum of about 50 km per week before you start a training plan and go smash it.

As above is roughly what i did. A couple of runs a week and slowly build them up a I'd push for a long run 10K on a Saturday morning. I never kept to the same route as i had different routes for 5k 7k 10k just to mix it up a bit with the odd hill thrown in.

yourdeadwright

hey lads just a quick question do any of yous bring water with you on runs ?
its not something iv done but I'm guessing when you start upping the miles its probably something you should do
Would you need water on a 20k or is hydrating before hand fine ?

Enduro

yourdeadwright wrote: »

hey lads just a quick question do any of yous bring water with you on runs ?
its not something iv done but I'm guessing when you start upping the miles its probably something you should do
Would you need water on a 20k or is hydrating before hand fine ?

I've got a minority opinion, from my own experience and a few friends, on this which is currently unsupported by the science, but I reckon one day it will be. That's that you can train yourself to need less by the standard training method... stress, rest, adapt. Only in this case it is applied to liquid consumption. It works for food (as your body adapts to burn fat efficiently).

So for n=1 (me), I wouldn't drink on a training run of any length in winter, and generally only 3+ hours into a long run on a hot summer day. I do bring water with me as deadweight in my backpack, which can be used in an emergency. But that's there as disposable weight (Race specific training going on there).

yourdeadwright

Enduro wrote: »

I've got a minority opinion, from my own experience and a few friends, on this which is currently unsupported by the science, but I reckon one day it will be. That's that you can train yourself to need less by the standard training method... stress, rest, adapt. Only in this case it is applied to liquid consumption. It works for food (as your body adapts to burn fat efficiently).

So for n=1 (me), I wouldn't drink on a training run of any length in winter, and generally only 3+ hours into a long run on a hot summer day. I do bring water with me as deadweight in my backpack, which can be used in an emergency. But that's there as disposable weight (Race specific training going on there).

To be honest iv never felt the need for water on a run, but im yet to do a "long " run in summer, Funny enough I never used to take water on board at halftime in football games so its possible iv done what your talking about and just adapted to the fact that i'm not getting water until im done,

I just wanted to make sure I was not shooting myself in the foot by not having some

smelly sock

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Hey guys
I'm totally new to road running I'm nearly hitting 40 but Iv kept reasonable fit, played plenty of football and the likes but I'm new to trying running for times and what not,

I want to be bale to complete a decent half marathon this year, I'm just wondering what the best way to build up to it training wise,

I started a 2 months ago just doing 5k twice a week , currently I'm doing it at about 22/23 minutes and I ran my first 10k in years last week at 45 minutes ,

I'm just wondering if I can manage 3 runs a week what kind of K should I doing on them runs to get my fitness up to 20k and then to post a half decent time ,

The furthest iv ever ran is 10 k so far,

Don't bother with any overly technical plans etc. What I'd suggest is adding on a KM every second or third run and you will get there.

Slow down a little though and pace it. Just find the distance and then worry about times.

Tin of Tuna

Hello,

My humble suggestion for those beginning their journey of aerobic enlightenment is to modulate their training from early doors.

What does this mean?

Take for example the tradition of running 5kms close to ones maximum a couple of days a week during the early stages of taking up running. This is a strategy that is commonplace yet provides a counter productive end as the training ritual becomes a fitness test as opposed to a building stamina phase.

Training example for 3 day week

5km run in 25 minutes

5km jog , no time allocation but should feel easy

6-8km run with a mixture of steady and easier efforts.

Over time this may resemble

8-10km run at 5 minutes a kilometer

6-8km jog with no pace requirements

10-15km run with a mixture of steady efforts, and easier efforts.

A careful increase in distances but maintaining a modulated ( steady/easy runs) will enable a comfortable rise in fitness without going to the well in training. This will foster greater enjoyment and less dread and you may even begin to add a 4th day of running but always try and maintain a balance between easy and steady efforts to maximize fitness gains and minimize mental anguish from pushing every run. A lot of this has been suggested although I am never in favor of smelly socks but as a runner it is something we must bear.

PS: Simplicity is key in all phases of fitness progression from training to nutrition. There are always other solutions for an increase in protein intake without indulging in protein shakes and all the trimmings that goes with that industry

I wish you well in this journey of cardiovascular discovery

Goodbye

pc11

Enduro wrote: »

I've got a minority opinion, from my own experience and a few friends, on this which is currently unsupported by the science, but I reckon one day it will be. That's that you can train yourself to need less by the standard training method... stress, rest, adapt. Only in this case it is applied to liquid consumption. It works for food (as your body adapts to burn fat efficiently).

So for n=1 (me), I wouldn't drink on a training run of any length in winter, and generally only 3+ hours into a long run on a hot summer day. I do bring water with me as deadweight in my backpack, which can be used in an emergency. But that's there as disposable weight (Race specific training going on there).

I was totally agreeing with you until I saw you run with a backpack?? :eek:

There is absolutely no reason to carry water for less than an hour for ANYONE unless you weigh 33 stone and it's 40 degrees out.

Even for up to 2 hours, most people should need only a few sips and most of us would get away with nothing to drink.

Contrary to recent fads and marketing, you do NOT need to drink litres and litres all day and you do NOT need to carry much water, if at all, on most runs. A little thirst will NOT kill you.

Arguably a little water during a race of around 10k or longer might be called for if you're trying to optimise performance on a warm day but not on a training run where you should be running a good bit easier.

As a general principle, too many runners are carrying WAY too much when they run: multiple layers (soon tied around the waist), phones, bandanas, backpacks, bottles, all kinds of crap. It's amazing how sportswear companies have persuaded us to buy so much gear and then of course we have to wear it. I can't get over how they have persuaded us we need so many layers and how many shoes we need on rotation!

I saw a guy in the Frank Duffy 10 carrying TWO phones.

FFS.

pc11

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Hey guys
I'm totally new to road running I'm nearly hitting 40 but Iv kept reasonable fit, played plenty of football and the likes but I'm new to trying running for times and what not,

I want to be bale to complete a decent half marathon this year, I'm just wondering what the best way to build up to it training wise,

I started a 2 months ago just doing 5k twice a week , currently I'm doing it at about 22/23 minutes and I ran my first 10k in years last week at 45 minutes ,

I'm just wondering if I can manage 3 runs a week what kind of K should I doing on them runs to get my fitness up to 20k and then to post a half decent time ,

The furthest iv ever ran is 10 k so far,

How are you measuring your distances, can I ask?

yourdeadwright

pc11 wrote: »

How are you measuring your distances, can I ask?

Strava app on the phone,
4:30k is around my pace for my 5 ks'
4:40- 4:45 seems to be what I naturally fall into when ruining 10k

Iv said before that a good hard effort for me
I think because iv never just ran and all my running has been football training for 20 years that I tend to fall into a 3/4 effort pace naturally ,
Im trying to step off it a but to do easy runs m Youd thinkg that would be easy but for some reason I find it hard to slow down ,Possibly over thinking things ,

Enduro

pc11 wrote: »

I was totally agreeing with you until I saw you run with a backpack?? :eek:

There is absolutely no reason to carry water for less than an hour for ANYONE unless you weigh 33 stone and it's 40 degrees out.

FFS.

I think you've totally misunderstood what I said. I'm carrying the a backpack because most of the races I run require me to race with a very loaded backup (5kg without water for the Spine Race for example. And that's probably one of the lightest in that field). So training specifity.... I train with a backpack. It would be stupid not to. It would also make for a very uncomfortable race if you're not used to running with a backpack.

Now I don't train with all the safety gear I race with. Instead I bring some "might need, nice to have" gear. But to get the full specific training it is a good idea to add weight. And many years ago I worked out that water bottles make excellent deadweight to carry because (1) 1 litre = 1 kilo, its easily measured (2) if I feel I'm overdoing I can just empty the bottles. Couldn't do that with expensive gear and (3) In an emergency its there to drink.

But then I did say I only ever drink beyond 3 hours into a run on a hot summer day. I can easily knock out a 7 hour run without drinking or feeling I need to any other time.

For refernce, here's the notes on gear, including the minumum mandatory gear for the next race I'm entered for that is yet to be cancelled.

pc11

Enduro wrote: »

I think you've totally misunderstood what I said. I'm carrying the a backpack because most of the races I run require me to race with a very loaded backup (5kg without water for the Spine Race for example. And that's probably one of the lightest in that field). So training specifity.... I train with a backpack. It would be stupid not to. It would also make for a very uncomfortable race if you're not used to running with a backpack.

Now I don't train with all the safety gear I race with. Instead I bring some "might need, nice to have" gear. But to get the full specific training it is a good idea to add weight. And many years ago I worked out that water bottles make excellent deadweight to carry because (1) 1 litre = 1 kilo, its easily measured (2) if I feel I'm overdoing I can just empty the bottles. Couldn't do that with expensive gear and (3) In an emergency its there to drink.

But then I did say I only ever drink beyond 3 hours into a run on a hot summer day. I can easily knock out a 7 hour run without drinking or feeling I need to any other time.

For refernce, here's the notes on gear, including the minumum mandatory gear for the next race I'm entered for that is yet to be cancelled.

Easy there tiger. I understood you perfectly. I think you misunderstood me! I wasn't referring to you. In fact I was agreeing with you if you read my post again.

That said, even I think that not drinking for 7 hours is nuts.

Enduro

pc11 wrote: »

Easy there tiger. I understood you perfectly. I think you misunderstood me! I wasn't referring to you. In fact I was agreeing with you if you read my post again.

That said, even I think that not drinking for 7 hours is nuts.

I know you were agreeing about the water part. I was just explaining why I carry it despite knowing I'm unlikely to need it.

7 hours is no problem as long its not hot. Why should it be? (I'm definitely running a nice easy pace on that length of run!!).

yourdeadwright

Enduro wrote: »

I think you've totally misunderstood what I said. I'm carrying the a backpack because most of the races I run require me to race with a very loaded backup (5kg without water for the Spine Race for example. And that's probably one of the lightest in that field). So training specifity.... I train with a backpack. It would be stupid not to. It would also make for a very uncomfortable race if you're not used to running with a backpack.

Now I don't train with all the safety gear I race with. Instead I bring some "might need, nice to have" gear. But to get the full specific training it is a good idea to add weight. And many years ago I worked out that water bottles make excellent deadweight to carry because (1) 1 litre = 1 kilo, its easily measured (2) if I feel I'm overdoing I can just empty the bottles. Couldn't do that with expensive gear and (3) In an emergency its there to drink.

I

But then I did say I only ever drink beyond 3 hours into a run on a hot summer day. I can easily knock out a 7 hour run without drinking or feeling I need to any other time.

For refernce, here's the notes on gear, including the minumum mandatory gear for the next race I'm entered for that is yet to be cancelled.

You run for 7 hours ? here's me struggling along getting an hour in fair play man ,