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"Cinematic Wrestling" discussion

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  • 07-04-2020 6:38am
    #1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Matt Hardy & Lucha Underground arguably pioneered this style of wrestling
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    and as the broken one says it is currently the talk of the town due to Wrestlemania's Boneyard Match (AJ vs Taker)

    and Firefly Funhouse (Wyatt/Cena) matches

    even reading the Mania thread here opinion seems quite divided on these matches. Personally I think they definitely benefited from the current situation in as much as they were not as dependent on crowd reaction and interaction as other matches but were also good fun, storytelling and something different which is needed on shows especially when you are watching around 7 hours of the stuff over 2 days.

    I think for that reason if none other this will have a place, at least with certain characters, going forward even after the current circumstances are done with. Variety will always be needed and perhaps if it isn't in a main event slot it's detractors won't be as vocal too. Gives Vince a chance to make movies and the old timers a chance to keep going and looking good also.

    So what does everyone think ? Want to see more in the future?


Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,429 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Different characters need to be portrayed in different manners.

    Undertaker is old and really can't wrestle much anymore. But the character of the Undertaker still very much has value. That value is tied to how he's presented. I think he'd be great as a leader of a faction, for instance; a veteran gang leader capable of kicking ass as needed, but more than happy to let his lackeys do most of the work. And the value in cinematic matches like this would be that Taker could then get involved in fights as well.

    Likewise, Bray, as a character, is awesome...but it falls apart when he's forced into a ring to conform to how a standard wrestling fight works. He'd thrive and be of way, way more value if he was given more of these styles of matches. Getting literally into peoples heads, pulling on their insecurities and fears.

    Heavily produced segments like those can give them a lot more wiggle room for character development. I also have to imagine it's way less stressful on wrestlers over all as well; that producing a pre-recorded fight like that would protect those with limitations, and let them keep their careers going longer.

    I understand why some people don't like them.

    But, for me, when you think pro-wrestling is basically a three ring circus, doing stuff like this that's different every now and again is a benefit. Variety makes everyone stand out better, gives them more control over making sure stories are nailed, and spices things up. I wouldn't want it to utterly replace crowd-based fights. But doing a few of these segments a year, especially with characters that rely on editing, would help massively.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,820 ✭✭✭grames_bond


    Cinematic matches only suit certain characters, and has been mentioned some characters will ONLY work in this style - Not having matches in the Hardy compound is the reason "woken" matt hardy never stood a chance - Vince also hated every second of it until he was forced to have 2 on mania (remember Michael Cole sh1tting all over the hardy vs bray deletion match)

    I loved every second of both of them but if you have ne of them on every week it will get old fast - you also need to give control over to someone else which vince hates doing (remember how bad the house of horrors wyatt vs orton match was - or whatever that one was called)


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    I enjoy it when it works for the character, i.e. for Broken Hardy and the Friend and less for Badass 'Taker, undead Taker could have used it well I think. One of the issues I have, is that the wrestling itself can look much more fake in this style, the WWE don't use the camera work so well to disguise the lack of impacts and connections, and it tends to look like a bit like a badly acted B movie. Wrestling moves themselves also look ridiculous out of the context of a wrestling match.. I always cringe seeing a wrestling move performed in a movie. I thought Final Deletion worked a bit better cause a lot of it takes place in an actual ring and looks like an actual match, The Firefly Funhouse was more like a segment than an actual match so that was fine too, but the Boneyard style isn't something I'd be interested in seeing more of


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,962 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    more cinematic wrestling on NXT

    The end of the Gargano vs Ciampa feud


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭sky88


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    more cinematic wrestling on NXT

    The end of the Gargano vs Ciampa feud

    how was it?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,635 ✭✭✭RollieFingers


    Edge & Orton - "We're going to have the longest, most drawn out and boring weapons filled match possible."

    Ciampa & Garagano - "Hold our beer."

    Only watched that match but I thought it was terrible, so many horrible camera cuts, way way way too long, and just not very exciting. People give the Bucks grief for throwing so many super kicks but I genuinely lost count of how many Gargano used here.

    Used to much prefer NXT when it was one hour, to me it's lost its focus and moved away from the shows strength of quality over quantity.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,869 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    So with the matches at the Hardy Compound in Impact, WWE and likely AEW, does that mean WWE, AEW and Impact are all part of the same cinematic universe? Hardyverse?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,168 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    CastorTroy wrote: »
    So with the matches at the Hardy Compound in Impact, WWE and likely AEW, does that mean WWE, AEW and Impact are all part of the same cinematic universe? Hardyverse?

    WWE's pioneering Dark Universe. :pac: :pac: :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 60,398 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Jeremy Borash was heavily involved with the Hardy stuff in TNA I know he is now working in NXT.

    I wonder did he have any involvement in the AJ/Taker and Cena/Bray thing.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,860 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Jeremy Borash was heavily involved with the Hardy stuff in TNA I know he is now working in NXT.

    I wonder did he have any involvement in the AJ/Taker and Cena/Bray thing.

    I think he was photographed on-location for the Boneyard Match. Can't remember if I saw the picture here or on Twitter, but it is doing the rounds.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,168 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    I think he was photographed on-location for the Boneyard Match. Can't remember if I saw the picture here or on Twitter, but it is doing the rounds.

    According to Alvarez Borash and the NXT crew put the boneyard one together, and a different team worked on the fun house match....now he was coming from the angle of hating the fun house match so who knows if that was truth. :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,576 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Once you move wrestling into a cinematic realm, it becomes little more than a fight scene from a low-budget action movie. Meh action, meh dialog and meh editing. You'd be as well to watch The Marine 5.

    And I enjoyed the Boneyard Match for what it was, but I have to think part of that was down to being invested in the Undertaker. And the Firefly Funhouse match was something different. But that novelty would wear off real fast if they started making more. I think it's best to leave it alone, although I know WWE won't do that now that they've gotten this reaction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,168 ✭✭✭oneilla


    This sort of thing has been a feature of wrestling in one way or another for nearly 30 years -the Warrior/Jake Roberts vignettes in wwf around 1991/1992, Wrestlemania 12 Hollywood Backlot brawl, The Undertaker Mankind boiler room match and similar Undertaker stuff. Wwe also made "movie cuts" of Wrestlemania matches filmed with motion picture cameras at different angles.

    WCW had their "mini-movies" around 1992/3 such as the Sting Vader white castle of fear tug of war, the Bash at the Beach cage match between Hogan and Vader in 1995 featured a Baywatch episode, the Vampiro vs KISS Demon graveyard match in 2000.

    The boneyard match made the best of a bad situation - a Wrestlemania with no crowd and an Undertaker who can't work a match anymore. The Firefly Funhouse thing was more of a weird experimental student film by someone who had just discovered David Lynch, Gargano/Ciampa and by proxy Edge/Orton was overkill in the one week. The boneyard match was fun and enjoyable, and this kind of thing is fine in small doses every now and then, maybe once a year but I wouldn't be interested if it became ubiquitous.



    As a side note (possibly not relevant) but the 80s film They Live has a fight scene between Roddy Piper and Keith David which was choreographed using some wrestling moves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,172 ✭✭✭Ridley


    oneilla wrote: »
    As a side note (possibly not relevant) but the 80s film They Live has a fight scene between Roddy Piper and Keith David which was choreographed using some wrestling moves.


    It's a good example because They Live looks like a fight, the Back Lot Brawl looks like a match but, for me, the Styles/Taker encounter is a hideous chimera of the staged aspect of those two worlds smashing into each other.


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