Help with identifying/killing a weed

hots

Two gardening threads in a week, it must be Corona...

Helpful gardening people, any chance you could take a look at the attached and shed some light for me, they are in a dip in the garden, as much as a foot tall and little to no grass beneath or coming through them... they look lily-pad like to me and the garden is wetter there because of the dip obviously.

Knowing next to nothing about anything in this forum, I'm thinking that I either need to buy something to kill the whole lot (but risk damaging the good grass?) or dig them all out? I'm not really too fussed either way but it's a massive area (maybe 10ft by 50ft at the furthest points) so it'll be some serious digging and then picking. I'm guessing after that I'll need to reseed and maybe need to build up the soil there to stop it happening again?

Any advice appreciated, I haven't a notion what I'm doing.

standardg60

Just mow it regularly, it won't survive being constantly cut.
You may in the longer term need to build it up and sow some shade tolerant grass seed but see what happens first.

hots

standardg60 wrote: »

Just mow it regularly, it won't survive being constantly cut.
You may in the longer term need to build it up and sow some shade tolerant grass seed but see what happens first.

It survived a full year (March to September) of being mowed, always growing back a bit, and then obviously with a vengence over the winter and to now... Would seed take with so much coverage of it?

Bixy

possibly "coltsfoot" (Tussilago?)
spreads by rhizomes ...
Hoe it out!

hots

Bixy wrote: »

possibly "coltsfoot" (Tussilago?)
spreads by rhizomes ...
Hoe it out!

Hmm the leaves don't have as much of a straight edge as the pictures of that, and it's never flowered since we moved in a year ago (although our cutting last summer might have caused that).

blackbox

What weedkillers have you tried?

magicbastarder

Winter heliotrope?

hots

magicbastarder wrote: »

Winter heliotrope?

It actually does look quite similar to that https://images.app.goo.gl/D7AvcgT686UAv57c9 but we've never seen it flower so couldn't be sure

hots

blackbox wrote: »

What weedkillers have you tried?

Nothing yet! Only looking to tackle it properly now, the garden was low down the list of priorities when we moved in last year!

looksee

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/goreyguardian/lifestyle/undesirable-alien-winter-heliotrope-coming-into-flower-36452677.html

Agree with Magicbastarder, it is winter heliotrope, there is some info about it in the above link.

hots

Cheers guys, best bet keeping cutting it regularly and add some more seed down to the area? The whole lawn is pretty weed-y in general so I'm going to hand-trowel the main offenders out and then fill and reseed their holes. I was going to throw down some grass food over both lawns then... Sound sensible?

New Home

The leaves in the picture look smooth - could they be violets at all?

Definitely Winter Heliotrope, Petasites fragrans.
Mowing it regularly will have no positive effect whatsoever; it will regrow from small fragments of stem/root, similar to Japanes Knotweed. It's indifferent to shade/light also.
Very, very difficult to eradicate, and you will need to eradicate it or live with it, it won't be controlled.
A very wet drench of Glyphosate, get every single leaf. It will definitely at least partially return, so 6 weeks later rake off the dead foliage so you can see what you are dealing with, and nail it again.

hots

New Home wrote: »

The leaves in the picture look smooth - could they be violets at all?

No they don't match the pictures of that anyway unfortunately.

hots

Deleted User wrote: »

Definitely Winter Heliotrope, Petasites fragrans.
Mowing it regularly will have no positive effect whatsoever; it will regrow from small fragments of stem/root, similar to Japanes Knotweed. It's indifferent to shade/light also.
Very, very difficult to eradicate, and you will need to eradicate it or live with it, it won't be controlled.
A very wet drench of Glyphosate, get every single leaf. It will definitely at least partially return, so 6 weeks later rake off the dead foliage so you can see what you are dealing with, and nail it again.

Similar to Japanese Knotweed sounds ominous. Certainly want to eradicate it anyway, it's taking up a large portion of the garden at the moment. I take it Glyphosate is going to kill any grass around it too?

hots

http://www.downgardenservices.org.uk/heliotrope_winter.htm this seems to suggest pulling up as much as possible, with regular mowing and rinse and repeat until it goes?

hots

hots wrote: »

Similar to Japanese Knotweed sounds ominous. Certainly want to eradicate it anyway, it's taking up a large portion of the garden at the moment. I take it Glyphosate is going to kill any grass around it too?

Yes, glyphosate will kill any green foliage it contacts, so you will have some collateral damage at first.

Coralcoras

Winter heliotrope. The sooner you dig up those rhizomes the better

hots

Cool, next question, we have what's been described to me as "old roundup" "the good stuff that's banned now"... that do the job? and then dig it all out, leave it a bit and then reseed?

I don't know what sort of weedkiller that is, make sure you are happy its safe. But yes, spray, prepare and reseed, although as stated you might need second spray of regrowth

hots

Helpful gardening folks, I'm now looking at a see of brownish crispy leaves... what next? Can I mow over them to dispose? Or do I need to handpick the whole lot? I'm guessing I'll need to turn the soil and give it a good watering before lashing seed down next?

MacDanger

Not meaning to hijack the thread but I was just about to post a photo from my parents' garden that looks very similar to the Ops. I see from all the posts in here that it's been identified as Winter Heliotrope but in the two links posted, the leaves don't look to be glossy at all:

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/goreyguardian/lifestyle/undesirable-alien-winter-heliotrope-coming-into-flower-36452677.html
http://www.downgardenservices.org.uk/heliotrope_winter.htm

Whereas in our garden, the leaves have a definite high gloss to them (see attached). Is this also Winter Heliotrope, some related variant or something completely different?

hots

Yeah mine weren't as glossy as yours I don't think. Can you get a picture of the stalks too maybe?

Day Lewin

Winter heliotrope - before you get zapping with the persistent poisons, please know that this has exquisitely scented flowers in the dead of winter: a drift of flowering perfume in January.

If you can dig up some of the roots and relocate to some dark, neglected spot, they will reward you eventually.

magicbastarder

Winter heliotrope is considered an invasive alien and your best bet if you dig it up is to ensure it can't grow anywhere else.

jashar99

? yellow flower on it and tubers if you lift a little bit up like celadine
useful link below
https://www.teagasc.ie/media/website/crops/horticulture/vegetables/Illustrated_Guide_to_Horticultural_Weeds.pdf

Day Lewin

If it helps in these trying times, the wide, smooth leaves are soft and downy on the underside, you could use them as emergency toilet paper. Zero Waste!

Ceirseach

MacDanger:
Your pics look like Arum Maculatum / Lords & Ladies / cuckoo pint. Leaves usually variegated though.
A native plant, but highly poisonous to children. Will spread easily.

New Home

MacDanger wrote: »

Not meaning to hijack the thread but I was just about to post a photo from my parents' garden that looks very similar to the Ops. I see from all the posts in here that it's been identified as Winter Heliotrope but in the two links posted, the leaves don't look to be glossy at all:

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/goreyguardian/lifestyle/undesirable-alien-winter-heliotrope-coming-into-flower-36452677.html
http://www.downgardenservices.org.uk/heliotrope_winter.htm

Whereas in our garden, the leaves have a definite high gloss to them (see attached). Is this also Winter Heliotrope, some related variant or something completely different?

Ceirseach wrote: »

MacDanger:
Your pics look like Arum Maculatum / Lords & Ladies / cuckoo pint. Leaves usually variegated though.
A native plant, but highly poisonous to children. Will spread easily.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113121260&postcount=556

Day Lewin

Ceirseach wrote: »

MacDanger:
Your pics look like Arum Maculatum / Lords & Ladies / cuckoo pint. Leaves usually variegated though.
A native plant, but highly poisonous to children. Will spread easily.

No: really not.

Arum Maculatum has pointed, arrow-head shaped leaves.
Winter Heliotrope has those flat, rounded kidney-shaped leaves. No possibility of confusion.

looksee

Day Lewin wrote: »

No: really not.

Arum Maculatum has pointed, arrow-head shaped leaves.
Winter Heliotrope has those flat, rounded kidney-shaped leaves. No possibility of confusion.

Another plant has been introduced into the topic, it appears to be lesser celandine - the one with glossy leaves. Its not quite as much trouble as winter heliotrope but its not far behind.

Ceirseach

looksee wrote: »

Another plant has been introduced into the topic, it appears to be lesser celandine - the one with glossy leaves. Its not quite as much trouble as winter heliotrope but its not far behind.

If it’s Lesser Celandine it should have yellow flowers now/March & April. Mystery solved!

tjjber

I had this in my garden, 99% sure it's winter heliotrope. I was tempted to leave it as it is an early pollinator and as such an early food source for bees. It's invasive and started to spread where I really didn't want it. It took two years of spraying with roundup to kill it. I covered the plants nearby with large sheets of polythene to protect them and only sprayed in the evening as there are a lot less bees about then. I sprayed it once a month from early April until July/August and the same again the following year.

kylith

MacDanger wrote: »

Not meaning to hijack the thread but I was just about to post a photo from my parents' garden that looks very similar to the Ops. I see from all the posts in here that it's been identified as Winter Heliotrope but in the two links posted, the leaves don't look to be glossy at all:

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/goreyguardian/lifestyle/undesirable-alien-winter-heliotrope-coming-into-flower-36452677.html
http://www.downgardenservices.org.uk/heliotrope_winter.htm

Whereas in our garden, the leaves have a definite high gloss to them (see attached). Is this also Winter Heliotrope, some related variant or something completely different?

Celandine for my money. Heliotrope leaves are quite big, so if yours are small it can’t be it.

hots

tjjber wrote: »

I had this in my garden, 99% sure it's winter heliotrope. I was tempted to leave it as it is an early pollinator and as such an early food source for bees. It's invasive and started to spread where I really didn't want it. It took two years of spraying with roundup to kill it. I covered the plants nearby with large sheets of polythene to protect them and only sprayed in the evening as there are a lot less bees about then. I sprayed it once a month from early April until July/August and the same again the following year.

Mine have gone nice and brown and crispy after one good dose so far, I'm planning to cut it this week and then dig up the roots that I can and then seed the area...