Is discussion of Homelessness numbers banned on Accom and Prop Forum?

Slydice

I don't want to mislead so as background, I have made two threads (one, two, now archived) on this board about Homelessness before. I was concerned:

Slydice wrote: »

It feels like no moderation action happens on posts I raise about homelessness on the Accommodation & Property.

Two moderators, Graham and L1011, had been taking sides on the threads on Homelessness in the Accommodation & Property forum. I didn't report that.
I assume they are allowed to discuss just as much as everyone else.
I brought it up here when Graham skipped over one post advocating violence and cut text out of one of my posts.


Since then I created another thread and tried to focus the topic of it to just homelessness numbers and their impact.
Multiple off-topic posts were made to it and I made repeated reports of them but no action was taken.
One post did get split to it's own thread by another moderator. After that, it seemed like reports on the thread were getting ignored.
Eventually a personal attack on a user was made and Graham locked the thread. At the time it felt like the personal attack came following the buildup of off-topic posts.


The ignoring of off-topic posts and then locking had the look of Graham following up on previously taking a side and my previously raising the issue here.


Giving the benefit of the doubt though, I created a thread (link) yesterday for the Homelessness numbers update that was released.
Then L1011 locked it:

L1011 wrote: »

They're locked as you are just using this as an info dump, still; when you were warned not to repeatedly.

Get a blog.

Do not attempt to re-create this thread or an equivalent without moderator permission.

So that looks to me that discussion of Homelessness numbers is banned on the Accommodation & Property Forum under the decision of Graham and L1011.


Is that the case?



In the last thread on this board, Graham seemed to take exception with me, made accusations at me and then wouldn't this:

Slydice wrote: »

Which of the discussions you say is putting the thread on "borrowed time" do you want me to add too?

L1011 had repeatedly said I should report posts.

L1011 wrote: »

You haven't reported any post on A&P for as long as I've been a mod, so what basis do you have for objecting about moderation of it?

I had stopped because no actions were being taken but as I said above, I started trying again and again it looked like no actions were taken.

L1011

You were told to provide something other than a link-dump. You did so for about two months, then reverted to the link-dump. This is a discussion forum, not a link-dump forum.

You did not contribute to the threads except via your link-dump every month - in the last thread, you made 8 posts all of which were your link-dump.

You reported multiple posts that you felt were off-topic, and nothing else. They were not off-topic.

If you actually wish to discuss the topic, feel free - but the evidence to date is that you have not and will not.

Slydice

L1011:

1: What content will you allow to be discussed about Homelessness numbers on the Accommodation & Property Forum?

2: What content will you not allow to be discussed about Homelessness numbers on the Accommodation & Property Forum?


I discuss the content in my posts. What other content do you want me to discuss?

I did not discuss content that I thought was off-topic on a thread I created.
I definitely did not discuss posts which get personal at other users.


Was there a particular part of the discussion which I did not discuss that you want me to discuss?

Tokyo

To be fair, this discussion has come up repeatedly between you and the local A&P mods, and I have also been part of the discussion in the past, so the mod response really can not come as a surprise.

You ask if 'discussion of homelessness numbers' has been banned - of course it has not. The key word being discussion. As has been pointed out time and time again, creating a monthly thread that consists solely of link dumps and statistics is not a discussion, and the mods have repeatedly brought this to your attention in the multiple times.

Considering the current global situation, there is plenty of scope for discussion, but I haven't seen your threads explore any of those avenues, so I have to side with the local mods on this one - please don't create further threads without discussing with the local moderators first.

Quantum Erasure

L1011 wrote: »

You reported multiple posts that you felt were off-topic, and nothing else. They were not off-topic.
.

if posts weren't off topic, why was the thread closed?

Slydice

mike_ie:
I discuss about the current global situation in the 1-post thread that L1011 just locked.

There are a lot of moderators and category moderators there:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=38

Forum Mods: Graham, Gumbo, L1011, Michael D Not Higgins, Paulw, The_Conductor, ToxicPaddy
Category Mods: Big Bag of Chips, bluewolf, Faith, Neyite

It's very difficult to know what is allowed and what is not allow when I ask what is allowed and what is not allowed and no answers are given.

Are you suggesting I ask the two moderators who have taken sides and repeatedly lock the threads and make accusations at me?

L1011

Your idea of "discuss" and everyone else do not match up if you consider your last thread to contain discussion.

Its link dumps with snippets of the link - that is not discussion. You have discussed nothing about this topic for years as far as I can tell, other than link dumps.

Slydice

L1011: I don't understand how that answers the questions I asked.

Tokyo

Slydice wrote: »

mike_ie:
I discuss about the current global situation in the 1-post thread that L1011 just locked.

Respectfully, you don't.

<link>
<link>
<graph>
<link>

... is not a discussion. Nowhere in that thread do you proffer a personal opinion on the situation, nor do you open up the floor to any form of discussion. It is very much an information dump, and nowhere else on the site can you jump into a forum and post the equivalent of

<topic> Now discuss.

...and expect it to be allowed. The fact that this has been pointed out to you repeatedly by the forum mods and you continue to do so doesn't stand in your favour.

Slydice wrote: »

There are a lot of moderators and category moderators there:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=38

It's very difficult to know what is allowed and what is not allow when I ask what is allowed and what is not allowed and no answers are given.

Are you suggesting I ask the two moderators who have taken sides and repeatedly lock the threads and make accusations at me?

You're being obtuse. The moderators in question have explained it to you. You have raised it in feedback multiple times and I have explained it to you. The fact that every mod and CMod of A&P hasn't personally jumped online to put it in writing doesn't mean that there is a silent majority sitting in the background, afraid to speak out. It's far more likely that they feel that the mod has spoken for the team.

Slydice

mike_ie:
One of my very first sentences is an opinion:

Slydice wrote: »

I'm thinking this is the final set of numbers from just before the impact of the COVID-19 Coronavirus.

What I'm seeing is this message: You post wrong
I say OK, tell me what is Not Wrong.

I googled Obtuse and it says 'slow to understand' and Yes definitely I'm finding this very difficult to understand.

That's why I asked the questions above.
In the replies so far I don't understand how they answer the questions I asked.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I hope no minds me trying to join this conversation on posting styles. I note slydice isn't really understanding what he the moderators are saying to him.

Slydice wrote: »

mike_ie:
One of my very first sentences is an opinion:

Firstly you say it's one of your first sentences but you have already thrown a chart and a 3 page link at anyone cares to read what you have to say.

So to sum up the first few sections of your last thread

Here's a chart

Here's a link

I think that link is the last link before covid 19 came around. Here's a wiki page on covid 19.

Here's a chart

Here's a chart

Here's a link this is what is says
Here's a link to second chapter of the last link

Here's a link
Here's a quote from the link



A discussion would be to offer commentary of some sort. Perhaps as a suggestion if you post a link talk for a hundred words about the information in the link without summarising it or quoting from it.

If you posted say the first link from the last thread and wrote one of the following paragraphs it probably would be OK.

Look at how high homelessness is. I think the high number of homelessness is a disgrace. Leo Veradker and FG have failed this country.

OR

While the high number of Dublin homelessness is a pity I feel it it is heavily distorted by the fact that many homeless people choose to travel to Dublin. I believe that homelessness is a national problem and not merely a Dublin based problem.

OR

Is it just me or is the high number of homeless families disgraceful. Is it not difficult for a homeless child to go to school if they don't have a fixed abode. This cycle of homelessness is will effect them later in life. It is especially a shame when so many people have large council houses to themselves.

Any of the above 3 would be discussion. For each link you post you need to add discussions that's not just summing up the link.

Slydice

CIARAN_BOYLE:
I'm asking the people who seem to be forcing discussion of Homelessness numbers to stop, not you.

In your reply I don't understand how that answers the questions I asked.

L1011

Nobody is "forcing discussion of Homlessness numbers to stop"

You are being asked to learn how to actually discuss them, not link dump and run - which is all you do; whether you realise it or not.

Slydice

L1011: Learn how? I've asked questions above. Am I supposed to magic up answers?

Deja Boo

Not sure, but you may be confusing your disposition to update/inform with the forums preference to discuss... Perhaps, instead of informing your 'audience' updated numbers, try to engage us in a conversation about this topic you feel passionate about.

As I understand your questions, and the replies:

1: What content will you allow to be discussed about Homelessness numbers on the Accommodation & Property Forum?
.... Content in the form of a dialogue (designed as an exchange of ideas and opinions, between posters.)

2: What content will you not allow to be discussed about Homelessness numbers on the Accommodation & Property Forum?
.... Informational Link Dumps only

I discuss the content in my posts. What other content do you want me to discuss?
...."I'm thinking this is the final set of numbers from just before the impact of the COVID-19 Coronavirus." is not a discussion, nor an opinion, nor engaging - it's simply a statement that your research is complete.

Unless you are consider the links and numbers themselves as some form of discussion (which I do not believe you do, you are linking for informational purposes only, are you not?)... Either way, add something like what CIARAN_BOYLE suggested, to get the conversation rolling - or even sum up your research with a question, like "how can we reduce the ever increasing numbers of homeless?"

Deja Boo

....unless, you are confusing 'content' with 'topic'

I doubt anyone takes issue with the topic (from my perspective anyway), it's only been suggested you take another tack, revise your approach, initiate conversation, and paticipate in the dialogue.

L1011

You have been given answers over and over again

What you post is not discussion. Please understand this.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Slydice wrote: »

CIARAN_BOYLE:
I'm asking the people who seem to be forcing discussion of Homelessness numbers to stop, not you.

In your reply I don't understand how that answers the questions I asked.

Well I looked at your last thread. I couldn't see any discussion and I offered some guidance in how to discuss as oppose to link dump.

The moderators have tried to explain it here.

If you want a discussion you have to discuss.

Slydice

Appreciate that others are trying to speak for the moderators but:

L1011 wrote: »

You have been given answers over and over again

What you post is not discussion. Please understand this.

I don't think I have.

I asked these questions on the last thread and they were not answered there either:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=110579028

Now discussion of Homlessness numbers is being stopped by you and Graham without giving answers to those questions.

Graham

At no point since you last raised this issue have you attempted any discussion about homelessness.

Each month has been the same, link dump, vanish.

For several months you were given the benefit of the doubt in the hope your participation would extend beyond the monthly link dump but it didn't happen.

As was explained to you last time:

You've been asked multiple times to stop the news/link dump and participate in the conversation about homelessness if that's your topic. You've done neither.

I genuinely don't see what else I can tell you.

You are welcome to join the conversation in A & P on the same basis as every other poster should you so choose.

L1011

It is not our fault if you do not understand the answer, which hasn't changed

You are completely inaccurate with your repeated assertion that discussion has been stopped - it hasn't. You have been told to stop posting link dumps, that's all.

Deja Boo

Slydice wrote: »

Appreciate that others are trying to speak for the moderators...

Just to clarify (which doesn't seem to make any difference anyway) - I wasn't trying to speak for any moderator.

Slydice

Graham & L1011: Now it just feels like the unanswered post at the end of the last thread on Helpdesk.

Slydice wrote: »

You are well able to put words I haven't said into my mouth while not answering questions.

- Unanswered Questions
- Slydice is wrong
- Learn but with no answers

L1011

Again - if you cannot understand the answer, it isn't our problem.

Links are not discussion.

Slydice

L1011: I don't understand how no answer means you have answered.

Deja Boo

My apologies to slydice for thinking he was confused - his op shows a clear capability of creating discussion.

I confused his "refusal to accept answers" with "misunderstanding." Apologies.

Graham

Slydice, I'll summarise for you.

You are welcome to discuss the homelessness figures in A & P.

You have been asked to stop posting your monthly news-letter/news-clippings/link-dumps (or anything similar).

Beasty

This is going round in circles

Slydice, it has been repeatedly stated in this thread - this is a discussion site. Simply dumping links and expecting everyone else to do the "discussion" is not on. If you cannot comment about links you are posting do not post them. It's as simple as that

I am going to close this thread, but will allow you one further post in this thread before doing so. I will not approve any other posts form anyone (other than Help Desk forum mods and Admins) in this thread

Slydice

Okay, I will try to continue to discuss homelessness numbers.

I understand that discuss of homelessness numbers is a difficult issue.

As this may be the last post allowed on this thread and per the last warning that was issued, please let me know (pm or last post here) who I am required to check the text of my next post with before I am allowed to post my next post. I'll make a guess if not (probably a mass PM to all of them).

Beasty

Check with the local mods if you are unsure