Is this bullying?

igotissues

Everyone new to a team set up in last year. All working ok except work practises were crazy due to level of detail required meaning we all had to work overtime (for free). But good team and everyone pulled together.

In February, manager had a huge run in with another manager in front of the Director. The other manager called me after this and we chatted about the issue (it involved me and my team). My manager felt that I had betrayed them. Certainly they brought it up on a number of occasions that I shouldn't have spoken to the other manager. Since then I feel that I am being singled out for "special " treatment.

Some examples:
- sent a spreadsheet to manager copying others for info. Manager hit reply all (not in error!) and pointed out all the mistakes on the sheet. Did not top and tail the email (e.g. Hi Xxxx, thanks, Manager) which they are a stickler for. I was mortified.

- has prevaricated whenever I have asked for a decision on important stuff to the point where it becomes embarrassing for me in front of my team.

- whenever I send an email including that other manager or anyone outside the team, I immediately get a text or an email to ask me why I sent that .... to the point where I am afraid to send anything.

- won't allow me to make the most basic of decisions without consulting them. This is embarrassing as I should have authority to do far more than this.

- sending me texts or emails in situations where others on the team are doing the same as me but they (others doing the same) don't get one. E.g. I sent an email to the whole team regarding a system failure. I was working from home (covid) but I didn't reference this. I only said "anyone having trouble with the system". No sooner had I hit send and I was asked by manager not to send stuff like that to the team as not everyone can work from home. The next day another 2 people at my level sent similar emails and are both also working from home and neither got a message from manager.

- I am reminded daily that I need to look at this client's account. The others on the team are also meant to be prioritising it but no-one else gets the reminder.

- I have been working on a client project for the past year. Another account came in from a sister company and my manager rang me to tell me I would not be working on it but one of my team would be (that person works directly to me).

- my manager moved someone off my team without even telling me. I found out when the group email went around congratulating them. Extremely embarrassing for me.

- I was off sick. I sent an email to him about some work off and the email back was that I was showing a bad example to junior staff logging in.

I have pulled out all the stops for this manager in the past, working 18 hour days when other people just threw the towel in. I don't want praise for that. It's my job. but now I feel I am being singled out now due to the February issue.

They seem to be going out of their way to make me look inept in front of the team and making me feel worried about doing anything without checking with them first.

Is it bullying or am I being paranoid?
Also to say, I have tried gently raising it but get very quickly put back in my box. My confidence is low and my manager is used to making legal arguments for a living

Dav010

Is what you describe repeated undermining of your dignity at work? Hard to see how telling you to log off your work while you are off on sick leave is a bad thing.

https://www.hsa.ie/eng/Workplace_Health/Bullying_at_Work/Are_you_being_Bullied/

igotissues

Apologies, on the sick thing: of course, I agree. However in this case, no junior staff members were on the email. .

_Brian

I think your overthinking much of this.

For example, you say hitting “reply to all” was intentional, how are you deciding that ?? Really your just guessing that.

As above, telling you to log off when on sick leave is indeed correct.

You say there were “mistakes” on the spreadsheet you distributed, more than one. That’s you showing your ineptness not him.

Send an email to your boss looking to agree on conditions that you will copy the other manager on emails with your boss, if they say never copy that person then that’s what you do, but you have the email to fall back on.

I think relax, focus more on detail in your work and not on what your manager is doing.

igotissues

On the reply all- It's quite in vogue in my organisation to do that to people to call them out in front of others.
Yes, I agree. There were errors. I used flowers in place of fauna (not exact example but don't want to say exactly what I said). Not exactly crimes and 2 others on the email texted me afterwards joking with me asking "wow what did you do to the Manager to piss them off LOL "

But yes, I am feeling vulnerable and this isn't helping :-(

_Brian

igotissues wrote: »

On the reply all- I have been called into their office on several occasions for my opinion on who should be copied in, should reply all be used etc. It's quite in vogue in my organisation to do that to people to call them out in front of others.
Yes, I agree. There were errors. For example, I misspelled the name of someone on another team, and I used flowers in place of fauna (not exact example but don't want to say exactly what I said). Not exactly crimes and 2 others on the email texted me afterwards joking with me asking "wow what did you do to the Manager to piss them off LOL "

But yes, I am feeling vulnerable and this isn't helping :-(

Your not the manager, you have to do things their way or the friction will continue.
Double down on your attention to detail.

Strumms

You go to work to get paid. If a boss wants you to give him/the company extra time...please value yourself, your time and that of your colleagues...

- if a manager wants you to do OT, they need to request this of you.

- if you agree to the request OT MUST be paid, at the applicable rate, time and a half, double etc...

- your employer should have staffing to a proper and responsible level whereby OT is only needed to cover instances of illness, holidays, unexpected increase or surge in workload.

Don’t become relied upon and taken for granted. Occasionally say NO and you have other plans.. OT shouldn’t be a routine ie. you are always or routinely doing 50 hour weeks... you’ll be knackered, the company is saving shîtloads by not hiring and the only extra is the amount of time spent in a doctor’s surgery and pharmacy.

Diziet

You are describing a worrying pattern there. Please make sure to keep detailed, dated notes. Unfortunately one of the first things that happens when we are undermined on a daily basis, is that we start questioning whether we are paranoid or not. For the record, I don't think you are paranoid.

pjdarcy

Your manager sounds like a complete dick OP. I'd be dusting off my CV if I were you.

Reganio 2

Could be punishing you or it could be you reading into every little thing wrong and inflaming the situation (If their is one) but stuff like this

"Am reminded daily that I need to prioritise xyz project...."
"sending me texts or emails in situations where others on the team are doing the same as me but they (others doing the same) don't get one"

How do you know others arent getting a text or email saying this and just not saying anything? If you are asking the other people did you get this email or text they are probably going back to the manager saying jgotissues is giving out again. These things tend to get around.

Obviously I dont know the full story but these could be things that are you either reading into the situations wrong or annoying the manager as well.

Mrs OBumble

igotissues wrote: »

- I was off sick. I sent 2 emails to 2 other people at my same level to say that I was off but just clarifying something while I was off. I did not copy my manager but immediately got a text telling me to log off and that I was showing a bad example to junior staff.

I have pulled out all the stops for this manager in the past, working 18 hour days when other people just threw the towel in. I don't want praise for that. It's my job.

These two stick out for me, along with sending out the spreadsheet with basic mistakes.

You should not have been logged on when you were sick. And you should never be working 18 hour days, for any reason. It's not your job. And if you're senior enough to be deciding on stuff, you should not need to be told this.

I'd read this as your manager having decided that you are in a job which is beyond you, and therefore keeping you on a very short leash. That's not bullying - it's managing you according to your observed performance.

Think about how the manager knew that you were logged in when you were sick: either the recipients told on you, or the system was being monitored. Either way, you're underestimating how much you're being watched and/or overestimating how much loyalty your colleagues have to you (I wonder what they're telling the manager about you and what you do.).

Personally, I'd be job hunting. Not the best time for it, I know. But I cannot see this having any kind of happy ending.

And yes, I'd do that even if it's not your fault, and if the manager is quite wrong about your abilities: Your choice is to stick around and deal with the misery or fine a new happier place to work, which will make the manager happier too.

Strumms

a manager isn’t entitled to ‘punish’ an employee.

If a manager is having an issue with an employee the issue needs to be investigated, documented, perhaps remedial training and certainly a re-education of expectation.

If performance is not meeting standards, sure, investigate with a view to discipline if necessary.

Just coming out with... “well, we are not satisfied with x that you’ve done or y that you didn’t do. As a result you are being changed to a different shift.”

You want to be a cûntbucket boss of biblical proportions to carry on like that.
, a complete fûcking melonhead.

s1ippy

igotissues wrote: »

Everyone new to a team set up in last year. Manager was known for being micromanager and stickler for detail. All working ok except work practises were crazy due to level of detail required meaning we all had to work overtime (for free). But good team and everyone pulled together.

Manager would sometimes call me in to talk about issues having with other managers or to see what I thought about wording of (passive aggressive) email. I went along with it but was aware that I might some day be on the receiving end.

In February, manager had a huge run in with another manager in front of the Director. The other manager called me after this and we chatted about the issue (it involved me and my team). My manager felt that I had betrayed them. Certainly they brought it up on a number of occasions that I shouldn't have spoken to the other manager. I think that is a childish way to work and we should all work collaboratively.
Anyway, since then I feel that I am being singled out for "special " treatment.

Some examples:
- sent a spreadsheet to manager copying others for info. Manager hit reply all (not in error!) and pointed out all the mistakes on the sheet. Did not top and tail the email (e.g. Hi Xxxx, thanks, Manager) which they are a stickler for. I was mortified.

- has prevaricated whenever I have asked for a decision on important stuff to the point where it becomes embarrassing for me and the team. (Note that they aren't the Mae West at making decisions at the best of times and often very slow to get back on emails but coupled with my next point...)

- whenever I send an email including that other manager or anyone outside the team, I immediately get a text or an email to ask me why I sent that .... to the point where I am afraid to send anything.

- won't allow me to make the most basic of decisions without consulting them. Including signing off on a meeting agenda, approving a letter to be sent out etc. This is embarrassing as I should have authority to do far more than this.

- sending me texts or emails in situations where others on the team are doing the same as me but they (others doing the same) don't get one. E.g. I sent an email to the whole team regarding a system failure. I was working from home (covid) but I didn't reference this. I only said "anyone having trouble with the system". No sooner had I hit send and I was asked by manager not to send stuff like that to the team as not everyone can work from home. The next day another 2 people at my level sent similar emails and are both also working from home and neither got a message from manager.

- I am reminded daily that I need to prioritise xyz project. I am doing that. The others on the team are also meant to be prioritising it but no-one else gets the reminder.

- I have been working on a project for the past year. A very similar project came up and my manager rang me to tell me I would not be working on it but one of my team would be (that person works directly to me).

- my manager moved someone off my team without even telling me. I found out when the group email went around congratulating them. Extremely embarrassing for me.

- I was off sick. I sent 2 emails to 2 other people at my same level to say that I was off but just clarifying something while I was off. I did not copy my manager but immediately got a text telling me to log off and that I was showing a bad example to junior staff.

I have pulled out all the stops for this manager in the past, working 18 hour days when other people just threw the towel in. I don't want praise for that. It's my job. but now I feel I am being singled out now due to the February issue.

They seem to be going out of their way to make me look inept in front of the team and making me feel worried about doing anything without checking with them first (but then won't make a decision on it so I again look inept). If I do anything without checking with them, it's back to the tut tut messages or making me look inept in front of the team.

Is it bullying or am I being paranoid?
Also to say, I have tried gently raising it but get very quickly put back in my box. My confidence is low and my manager is used to making legal arguments for a living

I relate 100% to the treatment you experience. These people are very small. Honestly I try to get an insight because I know not a lot of people extend a listening ear to them, and I've discovered that their lives would probably make the most hardened of us wither and die.

I deleted WhatsApp last year for a time because I was overwhelmed by the amount of work messages. Not even actually work-related but just gossip and nonsense. I informed my manager that I no longer had WhatsApp due to my phone packing up but said I would still make sure to keep in the loop with work business by emailing colleagues when necessary. I now do have WhatsApp but all the work colleagues I'm not on extremely close terms with are blocked.

As punishment, the boss used to ring me with any information at inappropriate times of the evening. I stopped answering the phone after 5pm shortly after they started doing that but they still do it. Yesterday I woke up at 8am and glanced at my phone before I jumped in the shower and I already had two missed calls and three texts to ask if I'd received the email RE WhatsApp messages they sent that I missed as I'm not in the WhatsApp group.

The same boss is obsessed with red tape and paperwork. They have expressed to me that they were "punishing" a client with paperwork to fill in because they regarded the client as inconveniencing them. They've done this to me on many occasions too including just this last week repeatedly insisting I badger clients into returning a liability waiver I've sent them to do with Covid-19 operations... one that they really shouldn't sign and that I'm uncomfortable pursuing them for.

All I've managed to do in these situations is marvel at how they are so hateful and go back to enjoying my life. I'm not interested in promotion and my job is just a job, especially at a time like this when life comes into focus more and the things that really matter become so glaringly obvious. To most of us. The others are run ragged trying to get liability waivers off people coping with a pandemic.

Diziet wrote: »

You are describing a worrying pattern there. Please make sure to keep detailed, dated notes. Unfortunately one of the first things that happens when we are undermined on a daily basis, is that we start questioning whether we are paranoid or not. For the record, I don't think you are paranoid.

I followed a grievance procedure against management whereby I presented detailed notes at an arbitration on incidents where I was shouted at, personally insulted and instructed to do tasks which were not my responsibility.

During this process I was repeatedly asked if my self-confidence was very low, to which I responded negative, my self-worth is absolutely adequate and this is why I am not content to let so many outbursts, acts of aggression and instances of being undermined slide. The two managers have been civil and even pleasant to work with since i highlighted these incidences of inappropriate behaviour. Not the boss though.

The_Honeybadger

Your boss sounds extremely insecure and downright petty. You have obviously gotten on the wrong side of him for whatever reason and it might be hard to overcome.Tbh your organisations culture sounds like a nightmare all around. I’d crack up working somewhere like that. It’s quite difficult to move jobs right now for obvious reasons but as soon as it is feasible I’d be out of there personally. Life is too short

igotissues

Thanks everyone. On reflection, and on reading and thinking on all the replies, I think it is a little of column A and a little of column B.
I am likely not performing to their standard. Whether or not that is justified is neither here nor there really. They are the boss and what they are asking is not that unreasonable in some cases even if I don't like it. However, I feel that it would have been preferable to say it to my face rather than create situations to make me feel and look (more) inept ( than I am).
I will put a pin in it, and as someone pointed out, not place any trust in other people in the team regarding this issue. I'm a bit upset that I don't feel like I have anyone I can turn to at work now. Perhaps I will dust down the CV. I'm in an industry that will have a mixed reaction to Covid, so it remains to be seen how it all shakes out when this pandemic is over.

The Bishop Basher

Diziet wrote: »

You are describing a worrying pattern there. Please make sure to keep detailed, dated notes. Unfortunately one of the first things that happens when we are undermined on a daily basis, is that we start questioning whether we are paranoid or not. For the record, I don't think you are paranoid.

Agreed. One or 2 of these issues alone wouldn't be a concern but there's a clear pattern here based on the OP.

igotissues wrote: »

- my manager moved someone off my team without even telling me. I found out when the group email went around congratulating them. Extremely embarrassing for me.

This leapt off the page for me. It shows a complete lack or respect for you and your role and would be a showstopper for me.

Whether your performance could improve or not is largely irrelevant. We can always improve aspects of our performance. But your manager clearly has no idea about how to motivate and get the best out of people. It also appears, based on your OP, that they have now singled you out for "special" treatment.

Start taking notes of these inconsistencies as that's where you'll get him/her later on if it goes that way. Otherwise i'm afraid you're in that classic predicament of figuring out whether to move on or wait out a bad manager.

beauf

It is bullying and you're being "managed out" which is the HR term for this.

Your manager is a micro manager. Sounds like a complete child.

Keep your nose clean and do everything by the book. Look for opportunities to move laterally within the company. Do your CV up and look for other opportunities. Sounds like not a great work environment even before your manager threw all the toys out of the pram.

chooseusername

Remote working will be new to a lot of organisations and individuals.
Different communication skills to office based face to face communications.
There's no body language, or voice tone to read.
There is more time to set the tone of your communication,
( going back and changing words or terms)
Also more time for you to analyse incoming communications,
(maybe reading something into it that was not intended).

Mango Joe

Lots of opinions here from people who are unfamiliar with the people in your sphere of employment and what constitutes normal/usual behavior....Trust your own instincts here, I highly doubt you are wrong.

OP in my opinion this person is most certainly an office Bully, probably with prior experience of "encouraging" people to seek alternative employment.

In his eyes you have deeply wronged him and he's seeking his own revenge.

I know you mentioned your confidence isn't the highest right now but its resolving things like this that can restore our own confidence and general self-respect.

For me I think you nearly have to be braver to face into months and perhaps years of undermining, barbed comments etc than the alternative of one day squaring up to this playground Bully and doing whatever you have to do to stop this.

Your health and mental well-being come first.....Looking for alternative employment shouldn't be ruled out as a fallback position.

If you end up in a job being very content and happy then who cares about this unpleasant person?

beauf

chooseusername wrote: »

Remote working will be new to a lot of organisations and individuals.
Different communication skills to office based face to face communications.
There's no body language, or voice tone to read.
There is more time to set the tone of your communication,
( going back and changing words or terms)
Also more time for you to analyse incoming communications,
(maybe reading something into it that was not intended).

While I agree with you 100% about remote working and email being misconstrued.

The pattern of the managers behavior is blatantly obvious.

alta stare

Doing overtime/working for free....are you mad??? Not a hope in hell would i ever do such a thing. Do it once and they expect it many times after.

If you feel you are being bullied take it to the person who is doing it. If you get no good from that take it higher. Any decent manager/owner will deal with it in the correct manner and if they dont gather all your evidence go to a solicitor and in the meantime find a new job. Why bother dealing with pricks, life is too short for that.

beauf

I don't think I would take it higher at this point.

igotissues wrote: »

On the reply all- It's quite in vogue in my organisation to do that to people to call them out in front of others....

Sounds this place has a toxic management culture. I would record everything as others have said. But deal with it myself and move to another team. If people constantly leave a team, it will be seen as some issue with the manager. If people leave a team and do well on another team, that will also reflect badly on the original manager.

You don't have say anything other than looking for a change, widen your skill set and experience. If someone walks away from these issues and just gets on with their work, that can only be seen a positive.

Dark Phoenix

I don't think you are being paranoid as such. Managers are human and it looks basically like you have gotten on the wrong side of this person in a big way so now, rather than balancing their opinion of you as someone would normally, their radar is up for any and every mistake or annoying behaviour they can highlight you making. Its common to be honest as if you are a manager, once a line has been crossed (and in their eyes it was when you confided in another manager behind their back) trust is gone and they no longer want to work with you.

They sound in general to be clever enough to do thinks that could easily be dismissed as paranoia - you cant prove for example they intended to reply to all on an email or that others are not getting texts however I would think they may have crossed a line in moving a team mate without telling you especially if this person reports to you.

Personally I am a very direct person with a grab the bull by the horns approach so if it were me I;d ask to speak to them privately and simply say look I get that we had an issue previously which I hoped we had dealt with. Now it appears to me that my actions and my work are really not meeting your expectations so how do you suggest we change this so we can work better together? It puts it back on them as you are not accusing them of anything and are asking them to provide the solution i.e. what do they want from you.

Now I completely understand you might not want to do this if they are the vindictive type or if theres a risk of them lying about what was said in a 1-2-1 setting/ if so, instead I would suggest to keep notes of all factual instances that occur - take emotion out (I know thats hard) and make notes objectively on everything that comes up where its clear that you are singled out for critiscism / different treatment so that you have the option of going to HR if it escalates.

In terms of the sick leave - your manager is right and they were probably protecting themselves by advising you of this as legally if someone is sick they cannot be made to work. I've often had to do this myself where people told me they were sick

Strumms

I’d agree with everything aside from a request to speak privately... initiate an email conversation so everything is 100% documented. Words in ‘private conversations’ disappear on the wind in workplaces too often.

If you end up in conversation on spec, send a follow up email , later that day...

‘Just confirming as per today’s conversation in your office at 15.30 -

- new shift to be 1000-1800 Mon - Fri

- to begin on 27/04

- pay revised to 42,000

you may think it’s forward, doing this so close but managing your manager, especially when there may be a trust issue, is absolutely imperative. Many promises are made as change is dropped in the Coke machine but having them materialize unless formally documented is a risk..

If they don’t acknowledge this email the advantage is yours, if they reply to confirm, the same..

If the next conversation is attempted to be initiated in a public space, email a brief with the ‘minutes’... ball is being constantly returned.

beauf

This relationship will not be fixed by a chat.

It would be like trying to have an adult conversation with a toddler having a hissy fit.

Tbh culture of that place seems toxic, and mismanaged. The op has got used to it, but looking from outside in, it sounds a terrible place to work. Move laterally and/or leave.

In the meanwhile do everything by the book and dot every i and cross every T.