Lock Down of God Houses

A_Lost_Man

A god whose followers has locked down its worship houses and cities. It cannot protect its houses and holy cities from a tiny crona virus. How it is able to protect people from diseases and answer their prayers.

Pherekydes

You're asking the wrong forum.

robindch

A_Lost_Man wrote: »

How it is able to protect people from diseases and answer their prayers.

Well, any honorable omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenficent deity wouldn't create diseases in the first place, and if they did somehow sneak in, the deity would immediately splat them stone dead on teh arrival of the first prayer. That this hasn't happened suggests - amongst other possibilities - that either the deity isn't omnipotent, omniscient or omnibenficent, or it simply doesn't exist.

You might have more luck with this line of inquiry over in the christianity forum.

Hotblack Desiato

Or maybe not!

I'll just point out the usual -

- Religious people get sick and die just the same as the non-religious, however hard they or others pray for them. (Tentative evidence in fact that those prayed for do worse, if they know that others are praying for them - nocebo effect?)

- Those whose religion causes them to be suspicious of, or reject, medicine and/or resort to quack "treatments" do worse, obviously. In some cases this means parents watching their children die of perfectly curable illnesses, that's some strong level of delusion right there.

- Plenty of crutches and walking sticks get left behind at Lourdes. No artificial legs yet, though.

- Every living thing dies. The notion of a world without death is ridiculous, but christians posit that death only came into existence because some dude ate an apple.

- What did carnivorous animals eat before the Fall? Was Adam a vegeterian? And why did plants fall outside the protection of god?

- Whatever about passing judgment for ever more on an entire species because of the supposed actions of one member of it, condemning every species on Earth to the same fate as a result just seems unfair.

- This god fella didn't even give your man a girlfriend until he got really bored, didn't god know that this was going to happen?

- Also, super ironic that one of the major sources of this virus spreading in South Korea was a messianic cult.

- But, mysterious ways and all that... :rolleyes:

smacl

robindch wrote: »

You might have more luck with this line of inquiry over in the christianity forum.

Seems to have gone down like a lead balloon over there. Personally, I take the line that anyone using the large scale suffering of others as a prop to vindicate their own religious beliefs or ideology to be rather repugnant. From a religious perspective I'd include the likes of Israel Folau blaming the bush fires on more liberal laws regarding abortion and gay rights and similarly a thread on the Christianity forum doing the same for the corona virus. I also think it is similarly poor form to use the current crisis to attack people's faith on a forum for the faithful, which seems to be the case with the OP posting this post on the other side. I've no problem whatsoever with the same line being taken in this forum as this is a place where you leave your faith at the door if it is in any way fragile.

A_Lost_Man

smacl wrote: »

Seems to have gone down like a lead balloon over there. Personally, I take the line that anyone using the large scale suffering of others as a prop to vindicate their own religious beliefs or ideology to be rather repugnant. From a religious perspective I'd include the likes of Israel Folau blaming the bush fires on more liberal laws regarding abortion and gay rights and similarly a thread on the Christianity forum doing the same for the corona virus. I also think it is similarly poor form to use the current crisis to attack people's faith on a forum for the faithful, which seems to be the case with the OP posting this post on the other side. I've no problem whatsoever with the same line being taken in this forum as this is a place where you leave your faith at the door if it is in any way fragile.

Christian use pain and suffering as their belief system to propagate their religion. It is part of their religion.So there should not be any objection by christian for using corona virus crisis to challenge existence of their god. As corona virus has actually show it is powerful than their god.Actually here you siding them and allowing them to use suffering and pain of others to convert people but in my case you think it is poor form

gameoverdude

I get the distinct impression you are happy to have followers of a creed suffer. I am confused as to your op. What do you hope to accomplish here? We are all in this together and need to support each other. Little pot shots is not going to achieve anything.

smacl

A_Lost_Man wrote: »

Christian use pain and suffering as their belief system to propagate their religion. It is part of their religion.So there should not be any objection by christian for using corona virus crisis to challenge existence of their god. As corona virus has actually show it is powerful than their god.Actually here you siding them and allowing them to use suffering and pain of others to convert people but in my case you think it is poor form

Some Christians, e.g. Folau, are happy to use the suffering of others to vindicate their own rather dubious moral position but certainly in this country, and Australia for that matter, most are not. You cannot characterize the behaviour of a huge group of any given creed based on the exceptional stated position of a small minority. Nor for that matter can you even use church doctrine, as we've seen most Christians in this country oppose it on matters such as abortion and same sex marriage.

Your post also is looking to use the suffering of others to support your own entirely dubious argument. Not only do I find your argument weak, I also find it pretty nasty in this respect.

A_Lost_Man

gameoverdude wrote: »

I get the distinct impression you are happy to have followers of a creed suffer. I am confused as to your op. What do you hope to accomplish here? We are all in this together and need to support each other. Little pot shots is not going to achieve anything.

Just showing hypocrisy of faithful believers. They say their god has created everything yet a small virus has locked down churches and god s city. Where was this virus 100 years ago. It Clearly show evolution this virus has evolved not created by some god. First we should leave these fairy tales behind and stop wasting our times and resources than we will able to overcome these viruses. I hope you understand my accomplishment here. And in Italy the virus is spread from a church. Suppose there are no churches in Italy and now many people would not have die

A_Lost_Man

smacl wrote: »

Your post also is looking to use the suffering of others to support your own entirely dubious argument. Not only do I find your argument weak, I also find it pretty nasty in this respect.

actually I am trying to bring awareness in people by using corona crisis that god they believe is even smaller and weaker than virus. They should leave such a god and stop wasting and praying to god and trust on themselves to defeat virus. Post has it meaning if you let people think

smacl

A_Lost_Man wrote: »

actually I am trying to bring awareness in people by using corona crisis that god they believe is even smaller and weaker than virus. They should leave such a god and stop wasting and praying to god and trust on themselves to defeat virus. Post has it meaning if you let people think

Not sure what makes you think this virus is weak. That aside, most extant religions tend to avoid making statements that run contrary to that which is commonly observable as to do so would demolish their credibility. This includes provisions that their god or gods will not necessarily intervene to prevent human suffering which is a regularly observable event. This conveniently leaves the gods all powerful, if somewhat indifferent to humanities plight by times. Or if you prefer, working in mysteries ways where the real benefit is yet to be revealed. Now as an atheist I consider the whole lot to be fantasy from start to finish but I don't think your argument upsets this fantasy. At the same time, it does seem to be attempting to use the suffering of many during a time severe crisis as a mechanism to poke fun at people's faith. While poking fun at people's faith is absolutely fair game in this forum, using the suffering of others as the mechanism to do so is poor form and questionable in my opinion.

A_Lost_Man

I am saying god is weaker than virus not saying virus is weaker. Even in this sense corona is weaker because it needs human to spread like god exists only human mind. I am not making fun just showing harsh reality to people that their illusions won't protect them when it comes to reality. This crisis has shown religious gods don't exist. There is no need to built temples churches and waste billion of dollars on them. Instead human can built hospital research labs to fight against unknown viruses that have to come in future. These viruses are not created by god but they evovoled. You say you are atheist not sure but there is something religious left in you. What is fun in my post because you think they attacked existence of god. Many religious have used the same excuse to hang philosopher and thinkers not a new excuse

magicbastarder

A_Lost_Man wrote: »

I am not making fun just showing harsh reality to people

You're providing this public service for free, to a forum populated by atheists? I've some harsh reality for you...

Montage of Feck

Suffering is at the very hard of christianity, jesus dying on the cross and all that.

smacl

A_Lost_Man wrote: »

I am saying god is weaker than virus not saying virus is weaker. Even in this sense corona is weaker because it needs human to spread like god exists only human mind. I am not making fun just showing harsh reality to people that their illusions won't protect them when it comes to reality. This crisis has shown religious gods don't exist. There is no need to built temples churches and waste billion of dollars on them. Instead human can built hospital research labs to fight against unknown viruses that have to come in future. These viruses are not created by god but they evovoled. You say you are atheist not sure but there is something religious left in you. What is fun in my post because you think they attacked existence of god. Many religious have used the same excuse to hang philosopher and thinkers not a new excuse

You seem to have missed the point that you're on an atheist forum where the broad assumption is that gods are imaginary. Saying this virus is more powerful than god to an atheist is absurd, a bit like saying this virus would beat Spiderman in a fight. Just because I'm an atheist however doesn't imply that I don't think that many religious people, largely of an older generation, don't gain solace, succor and hope from their religious beliefs. For example, my wife's mother is 95, has been in isolation in a nursing home for the last week, is desperately worried and still prays to get out of this alive. Do you seriously believe that using the Covid-19 outbreak to attack people's faith at this point in time is a reasonable or decent way to behave. Your argument is infantile and ill-considered.

uck51js9zml2yt

A_Lost_Man wrote: »

Just showing hypocrisy of faithful believers. They say their god has created everything yet a small virus has locked down churches and god s city. Where was this virus 100 years ago. It Clearly show evolution this virus has evolved not created by some god. First we should leave these fairy tales behind and stop wasting our times and resources than we will able to overcome these viruses. I hope you understand my accomplishment here. And in Italy the virus is spread from a church. Suppose there are no churches in Italy and now many people would not have die

Depends on whether you see the church as the building or the people.
Yes buildings are shut down as well as pubs and bookies( the other Sunday morning place of worship) but the church is still alive and well and using other means to encourage one another. BTW..I'm not referring to the RCC.

What's the evidence that the virus proves evolution? How will we overcome viruses. Science can't even beat the common cold.

Your post rivals the brothers Grimm in its magical properties.

A_Lost_Man

smacl wrote: »

Saying this virus is more powerful than god to an atheist is absurd, a bit like saying this virus would beat Spiderman in a fight.

That's not fair bro after locking my thread in Christian foram and allowing discussion on this foram. Nevertheless many christian also visit on this foram who are in process of becoming atheist.

smacl wrote: »

Just because I'm an atheist however doesn't imply that I don't think that many religious people, largely of an older generation, don't gain solace, succor and hope from their religious beliefs. For example, my wife's mother is 95, has been in isolation in a nursing home for the last week, is desperately worried and still prays to get out of this alive. Do you seriously believe that using the Covid-19 outbreak to attack people's faith at this point in time is a reasonable or decent way to behave. Your argument is infantile and ill-considered.

Religion are dying with old generation and many old generation is happy with their fairly tales and dont have time visit social media and foram like this. Here many young and middle age people visit. Let them die with their fantasy.

A_Lost_Man

Walker Dry Ledge wrote: »

What's the evidence that the virus proves evolution? How will we overcome viruses. Science can't even beat the common cold.
.

By comparing the available genome sequence data for known coronavirus strains, we can firmly determine that SARS-CoV-2 originated through natural processes.

smacl

A_Lost_Man wrote: »

Religion are dying with old generation and many old generation is happy with their fairly tales and dont have time visit social media and foram like this. Here many young and middle age people visit. Let them die with their fantasy.

Mod: Carded for trolling, specifically advocating for the untimely death of a wide section of our society by disease.

Mark Hamill

smacl wrote: »

Do you seriously believe that using the Covid-19 outbreak to attack people's faith at this point in time is a reasonable or decent way to behave. Your argument is infantile and ill-considered.

I am not saying we should follow A_Lost_Man's example, but to be fair to them, isn't this sort of thing the same as what religions themselves do - taking advantage of people at their weakest and most vulnerable?
You said it yourself - religious people, largely of an older generation, gain solace, succor and (false) hope from their religious beliefs. Religions prey on peoples insecurities about what will happen to them after they die - that's why their follower's ages skew older.

smacl

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I am not saying we should follow A_Lost_Man's example, but to be fair to them, isn't this sort of thing the same as what religions themselves do - taking advantage of people at their weakest and most vulnerable?
You said it yourself - religious people, largely of an older generation, gain solace, succor and (false) hope from their religious beliefs. Religions prey on peoples insecurities about what will happen to them after they die - that's why their follower's ages skew older.

I agree with what you're saying there and wouldn't restrict it to old age. I take Marx's notion that religion is the drug for those that are desperate, disadvantaged and otherwise unsupported. I for one wouldn't take this away from them during this crisis without providing a viable alternative that provides the same function at least as well.

Also seeing various fundies on the go, blaming the pandemic on liberization of abortion, same sex marriage and the likes. These are the types that would attract my strong criticism at this point in time rather than taking a blunt side-swipe at religion in general. There seems to be no shortage of gross insensitivity regardless of one's beliefs or lack thereof.

magicbastarder

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I am not saying we should follow A_Lost_Man's example, but to be fair to them, isn't this sort of thing the same as what religions themselves do - taking advantage of people at their weakest and most vulnerable?

i know this is not what you're saying, but you can't criticise someone (or some organisation) for doing something, and then choose the same tack with the 'well they started it' rationale.

especially as there is a distinct difference to be made between the tactics of a religion and the effects on its followers.