New Back Boiler Water Pump Noise

EagerBeaverton

Back boiler water pump went kaput and got a new one installed recently by a plumber.

Compared to the old one, the one on our kerosene boiler, and the one in my parents house this new one seems noisy. Not ear shattering noise just enough to distract me a lot when watching TV in the room and I wouldn't be able to read a book in the room without being distracted by the noise now. We've lived in the house 6 years with the old pump so there's a definite difference in noise. Plus I can hear the noise of the pump throughout the second floor of the house which I never could before.

It has three speed settings. When at the highest (speed 3) it's the worst. When at speed 2 I barely hear it bar a crackling sound BUT speed 2 isn't fast enough to pump the water out of the back boiler as within a few minutes I can hear the water starting to boil and pop - would this in itself be an indication of a fault in the pump?

I've made these recordings but find they sound more accurate when listened to through a mobile phone than on a PC as the PC speakers seem to dull the sound a bit. Edit: for some reason the links keep appearing as weird drop down things so I've just had to paste the url links instead...

Speed 2 with phone right beside the pump -https://soundcloud.com/user-972794575/speed-2-held-right-beside-1
Speed 3 with phone right beside the pump - https://soundcloud.com/user-972794575/speed-3-held-right-beside-1

Speed 3 - noise on second floor of the house - https://soundcloud.com/user-972794575/speed-3-upstairs-noise-near-1

The pump looks new but I saw no box or anything, the plumber initially thought he could repair the old one but when he looked at it he made a comment about happening to have one in the van that I presumed was new.

Would I be justified in asking for a new one to be installed or am I hearing things?

crossmolinalad

Had the same last year plumber said its normal for a new one
Lot of noise in the beginning but hear almost nothing anymore after a year in use

listermint

different bands have different qualities tbh. The stuff about the noise dying down.... well im not convinced if its noisey now do the bearings improve ?

Wearb

Is this a high efficiency pump, ie digital?

EagerBeaverton

It's a "GPD 25-6s" pump with the below specs written on it

> 220V
> 50Hz
> IP44
> TF 110 degrees C
> Class H

III - 100 - 0.45
II - 70 - 0.35
I - 55 - 0.25


The crackling noise it makes when on speed 2 has a sound like something inside is moving around - could a bearing be gone?

I have bled it twice with zero improvement in noise.

Wearb wrote: »

Is this a high efficiency pump, ie digital?

On a separate note, Wearb would you be able to edit my original post to see if you can fix the wonky urls? No matter how I try to edit them they keep appearing with that drop down arrow and are unclickable unless your right click them and then click 'open in new tab'

Dtp1979

Regardless of whether the pump is noisy or not, your back boiler shouldn’t be making any gurgling boiling noise under normal fire conditions. You might hear a little if you threw a load of coal down and the system was fully hot. The system should be gravity fed. How big is the house?

EagerBeaverton

When the pump was at speed 2 the water in the back boiler was boiling away using only wood (dried leylandii cut down last year), I had to put it to speed 3 to stop the boiling.

The house is a standard ~100m2 four-bed semi-d estate house.

Only time in the past that I heard the water in the back boiler boiling was when the older water pump seized up and completely stopped working.

Just to add also that the new pump heats up to a point that it would be uncomfortable to touch - not sure if that's standard enough though or a sign something is seizing/catching and causing excess heat built up inside the unit.

Wearb

If it's getting really hot before the pipes either side, it could be a problem.

That noise sounds like a dirty system or air in it. Are you sure pump is fitted with correct flow?

Dtp1979

EagerBeaverton wrote: »

When the pump was at speed 2 the water in the back boiler was boiling away using only wood (dried leylandii cut down last year), I had to put it to speed 3 to stop the boiling.

The house is a standard ~100m2 four-bed semi-d estate house.

Only time in the past that I heard the water in the back boiler boiling was when the older water pump seized up and completely stopped working.

Just to add also that the new pump heats up to a point that it would be uncomfortable to touch - not sure if that's standard enough though or a sign something is seizing/catching and causing excess heat built up inside the unit.

Sounds like your back boiler is depending on the pump to dump the heat. It’s both wrong and dangerous. Post a few pics of the hotpress if you can

EagerBeaverton

Wearb wrote: »

If it's getting really hot before the pipes either side, it could be a problem.

Lit a fire there and the pump got hot to a point that it was almost too hot to touch but it was bearable, but the pipes in and out of the pump weren't even lukewarm.

Wearb wrote: »

That noise sounds like a dirty system or air in it. Are you sure pump is fitted with correct flow?

Not sure how to tell if it's installed with the correct flow, can't see an arrow on the pump like the old one had. I don't know if the attached image ("pump") would help with knowing that?

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Sounds like your back boiler is depending on the pump to dump the heat. It’s both wrong and dangerous. Post a few pics of the hotpress if you can

Pics of the hot press attached - as far as I know it is unchanged from when the house was built 40 years ago. Cheers for any more guidance.

Dtp1979

Ok, the pictures of the hotpress show me nothing about the heating. Can I see the right hand side, with the lagging jacket off please.
Can I get a full view of the pump and all pipework in that area too.

EagerBeaverton

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Ok, the pictures of the hotpress show me nothing about the heating. Can I see the right hand side, with the lagging jacket off please.

Damn sorry - hope these are more use! Pics of the pump are in the below post as I could only attach 5 images per post.

EagerBeaverton

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Can I get a full view of the pump and all pipework in that area too.

Are these what you need? Sorry if I'm off with these... The pump is on the right side of the fireplace downstairs.

Dtp1979

As I expected. Your back boiler is piped completely wrong and totally depends on the pump to dump heat. Not only is it wrong, it’s also dangerous. I’d advise against lighting it until it’s rectified by a plumber who actually knows what they’re doing. Whoever the imbicile was that replaced the pump, I’d avoid getting them back. If they couldn’t spot such a huge error then they’re useless in my opinion.

EagerBeaverton

Dtp1979 wrote: »

As I expected. Your back boiler is piped completely wrong and totally depends on the pump to dump heat. Not only is it wrong, it’s also dangerous. I’d advise against lighting it until it’s rectified by a plumber who actually knows what they’re doing. Whoever the imbicile was that replaced the pump, I’d avoid getting them back. If they couldn’t spot such a huge error then they’re useless in my opinion.

Damn, but cheers for the advice, much appreciated. Is it a big and/or expensive job to get it plumbed right? If it has to be done then it has to be done, just want a sense of the impact on the wallet.

The house has been in the family since it was built and no work was done to it from what I know... does that mean it's probably been plumbed wrong since the house was built?

Not to continue picking your brain but would you have any sense of whether the pump sounds like it's faulty? While I won't get that same plumber back to rectify the piping I've still got that noisy pump to deal with that he installed.

corkgsxr

Doubt that pump is new either.

Unless he stocked up on cheap pumps before the went digital

Dtp1979

EagerBeaverton wrote: »

Damn, but cheers for the advice, much appreciated. Is it a big and/or expensive job to get it plumbed right? If it has to be done then it has to be done, just want a sense of the impact on the wallet.

The house has been in the family since it was built and no work was done to it from what I know... does that mean it's probably been plumbed wrong since the house was built?

Not to continue picking your brain but would you have any sense of whether the pump sounds like it's faulty? While I won't get that same plumber back to rectify the piping I've still got that noisy pump to deal with that he installed.

Yea, old or second hand pump was fitted I’d say. Yes it was wrong since day one.
Price to rectify depends on how difficult it is to get from the back boiler up to the hotpress

EagerBeaverton

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Yes it was wrong since day one.

Wonder is the whole estate plumbed wrong...

Not a job I'll tackle myself but having done a bit of reading on it and wanting to make sure I get it done right, am I right in thinking:

1. there should be two 'free flowing' pipes (as in no pump) that use gravity and the natural flow of hot water upwards (pipe 1) and cold water downwards (pipe 2) that connects the back boiler to the water cylinder in the hotpress so the water can 'cycle' through?
2. that because the house also has an oil-fired boiler that the water cylinder should be a dual coil, and that mine is a single coil as it only has four pipes attached to it instead of six?
3. that the pump should actually be in the hotpress, that it should have a thermostat that automatically detects the heat of the water and will then pump the hot water in the cylinder around to the rads in the house?
4. there should be no pump at all beside the fireplace?

Dtp1979

You have the main jist yeah. There’s a few alternative ways but that’s basically it. You’re hardly in Athy are you. I came across an estate there that had a very similar setup to yours

EagerBeaverton

Dtp1979 wrote: »

You have the main jist yeah. There’s a few alternative ways but that’s basically it. You’re hardly in Athy are you. I came across an estate there that had a very similar setup to yours

Meath area - tried to pm you there but it says you're inbox is full!

Dtp1979

EagerBeaverton wrote: »

Meath area - tried to pm you there but it says you're inbox is full!

Inbox is clear now. I know nobody in Meath. Try DGOBS on here. I’m sure he’d know somebody

olestoepoke

Hey guys looking for advice on a back boiler stove installation. Ive been told that a system link heat genie needs to be installed with it. Ive contacted a few plumbers and none of them seemed confident about installing it. Any reccomendations on companies or plumbers that a experienced in installing stoves with back boiler via system link? Thanks and PM me of course as per the rules.