Car insurance - ripping off existing customers

D13exile

I received my car insurance renewal from FBD yesterday. I paid €456 last year and this year's renewal is €500. I haven't had a claim since 1990, I have no penalty points, and I am the only driver on the policy. The car (Qashqai) is 9 years old, and only worth about €5,000. So why the hell has my insurance gone up when reports say that insurance costs are dropping?

Well bearing in mind the good work done by Pearse Doherty of Sinn Fein (I've no party allegiances but at least he does something useful, unlike the other useless ba$tards in the dail) in bringing to light the insurance industry practice of giving cheap deals to new customers while ramping up quotes for existing customers, I went online yesterday and did a trawl of insurance companies for quotes. Of the 9 quotes I received, 2 were higher than FBD while the rest were cheaper, up to €140 cheaper in one case. So I then checked FBD's own website and sought a quote online as a new customer. Bearing in mind my FBD renewal was €500, which was €44 higher than last year, what did I get quoted online by FBD? €407, almost a hundred euro cheaper than the renewal they posted to my house. So despite the insurance industry getting a good grilling from Doherty last month, they're still trying to rip off existing customers who might not have the good sense to shop around, or even to seek a fresh quote from their existing insurance provider.

So do I bother phoning FBD to have a good rant at some poor sod who only works there and isn't responsible for this price gouging, or just say screw you FBD and go elsewhere seeing as I got three cheaper quotes than this anyway?

Salary Negotiator

The person on the end of the phone doesn't care, just take your business somewhere else.

Liberty did similar with me, renewal quote was €1700 and because I've an open claim against another driver no other companies would quote me.

I got a new quote from Liberty with no mention of my open claim and it was about €600, rang them up and asked if they were penalizing me for my open claim and they said they weren't, so I asked why my renewal was so high. They couldn't answer and honoured the lower quote.

I don't know why anyone expects any loyalty or fairness from insurance companies.

D13exile

I don't expect anything from them but after they were hauled across the coals on tv by Doherty, I would have thought they'd cop on and start charging everyone the same, ie new customers and existing. Looks like the Irish business model of ripping off customers will never change.

L1011

This is pretty much the norm; although weirdly this year I got a slightly cheaper quote by post than the website, and then by delaying renewing until nearly the end got sent another 5% off code - this was with Liberty.

There's no loyalty from the insurers so just shop around and be willing to move annually.

This applies in other countries too, btw.

Rx713B

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

The person on the end of the phone doesn't care, just take your business somewhere else.

Liberty did similar with me, renewal quote was €1700 and because I've an open claim against another driver no other companies would quote me.

I got a new quote from Liberty with no mention of my open claim and it was about €600, rang them up and asked if they were penalizing me for my open claim and they said they weren't, so I asked why my renewal was so high. They couldn't answer and honoured the lower quote.

I don't know why anyone expects any loyalty or fairness from insurance companies.

This happened to me also - renewal was 500 quid more than a new quote rang and asked them about the difference in each they couldnt give me one - so they gave me lower quote. Robbing bastards.

Salary Negotiator

D13exile wrote: »

I don't expect anything from them but after they were hauled across the coals on tv by Doherty, I would have thought they'd cop on and start charging everyone the same, ie new customers and existing. Looks like the Irish business model of ripping off customers will never change.

Well you seem to expect something.

If you have 3 cheaper quotes then what does it matter what the renewal or new quote is? You should be taking your business elsewhere.

D13exile

Well Liberty quoted me €511, so they aren't the cheapest anyway. At my age, I can shop around them all but sooner or later (probably sooner), they'll tell me they're loading me because of my age. Last year when I queried why my insurance had gone up, I was told it was because my car was old. I said what has that got to do with anything? If it was written off, it'd cost them less to pay out than if I was driving an new car. They had no answer to that.

D13exile

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

Well you seem to expect something.

If you have 3 cheaper quotes then what does it matter what the renewal or new quote is? You should be taking your business elsewhere.

I am expecting that if they get called out on their "practices" of gouging existing customers, they'd pull their horns in and correct their ways. You apparently believe that nothing should ever change and we should accept this as the norm.

And yes, damn right I'll be taking my business elsewhere, even if FBD offered to match the lowest quote I got.

Salary Negotiator

D13exile wrote: »

I am expecting that if they get called out on their "practices" of gouging existing customers, they'd pull their horns in and correct their ways. You apparently believe that nothing should ever change and we should accept this as the norm.

And yes, damn right I'll be taking my business elsewhere, even if FBD offered to match the lowest quote I got.

A few awkward questions from an opposition TD won’t make a blind bit of difference and it’s naive to think it would.

All you can do is shop around, same as for any other purchase.

silver2020

D13exile wrote: »

Well Liberty quoted me €511, so they aren't the cheapest anyway. At my age, I can shop around them all but sooner or later (probably sooner), they'll tell me they're loading me because of my age. Last year when I queried why my insurance had gone up, I was told it was because my car was old. I said what has that got to do with anything? If it was written off, it'd cost them less to pay out than if I was driving an new car. They had no answer to that.

A car being written off is the least of an insurance company's worries. Older cars have less safety features, so if there was an accident the potential claims would be higher.
and yes, once you get over 65, you will find age will come into it.

You'll also find that one company that is expensive this year, might be the cheapest next year.

In insurance of all types its about managing the risk profile of your book. The same as bookies will do on a racecourse.

If they have a lot of 50-55 year old males in north Dublin, they will decided that they don't want more, so north Dublin gets a loading. Similarly if they find they have very few 25-30 year olds, they will look at incentives for this group until such time they fill a quota.

Many will also give reduced premiums if you have a spouse on the policy too - aig will take 20% off in that case. Seems if you are in a stable relationship, you are safer.

Its simple swings and roundabouts.

You can also take some of the risk yourself and ask for a higher excess - I always go for €750 additional excess (so €1050 in total as standard excess is €300) It knocks about €60 off the premium

btw €500 is not too bad - but try AIG, i'm a touch over €400 with them.

D13exile

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

A few awkward questions from an opposition TD won’t make a blind bit of difference and it’s naive to think it would.

All you can do is shop around, same as for any other purchase.

God you are so cynical my friend. Do you not believe in calling out people/business on sharp practices? If you went to a restaurant and had a crap meal handed up to you with lousy service, would you complain or just shut up, pay up and walk out saying "I'll never go back"? That is the typical Irish way which is why nothing ever changes in this country. Perhaps if people called out businesses on price gouging, bad service etc, things might change? Isn't this forum here for that very reason? If i get good service, I thank the business and return to them. If I get lousy service, I complain. Sometimes, it works and things get resolved. Sometimes it doesn't and I take my business elsewhere. I work hard for my money and I expect to get value for it when I spend it whether on goods or services. But I know I'm in the minority.

D13exile

silver2020 wrote: »

A car being written off is the least of an insurance company's worries. Older cars have less safety features, so if there was an accident the potential claims would be higher.
and yes, once you get over 65, you will find age will come into it.

You'll also find that one company that is expensive this year, might be the cheapest next year.

In insurance of all types its about managing the risk profile of your book. The same as bookies will do on a racecourse.

If they have a lot of 50-55 year old males in north Dublin, they will decided that they don't want more, so north Dublin gets a loading. Similarly if they find they have very few 25-30 year olds, they will look at incentives for this group until such time they fill a quota.

Many will also give reduced premiums if you have a spouse on the policy too - aig will take 20% off in that case. Seems if you are in a stable relationship, you are safer.

Its simple swings and roundabouts.

You can also take some of the risk yourself and ask for a higher excess - I always go for €750 additional excess (so €1050 in total as standard excess is €300) It knocks about €60 off the premium

btw €500 is not too bad - but try AIG, i'm a touch over €400 with them.

I'm 50, full licence, no claims in 30 years and no penalty points. I would have thought I'm in the low risk category. From some of the quotes I received, I did wonder how they come up with their pricing. I got quoted from €360 up to €688 all on the same details, and like you I always go for the highest excess on the policy.

As for the spouse on the policy, I tried that and in every case it increased the quote.

Aig were the second lowest quote I received and being a Dub, I'd be inclined to go with them as they are Dublin's sponsors:D

Salary Negotiator

D13exile wrote: »

God you are so cynical my friend. Do you not believe in calling out people/business on sharp practices? If you went to a restaurant and had a crap meal handed up to you with lousy service, would you complain or just shut up, pay up and walk out saying "I'll never go back"? That is the typical Irish way which is why nothing ever changes in this country. Perhaps if people called out businesses on price gouging, bad service etc, things might change? Isn't this forum here for that very reason? If i get good service, I thank the business and return to them. If I get lousy service, I complain. Sometimes, it works and things get resolved. Sometimes it doesn't and I take my business elsewhere. I work hard for my money and I expect to get value for it when I spend it whether on goods or services. But I know I'm in the minority.

It's not cynical to know that the sales person in FBD or Liberty or wherever doesn't give 2 flying monkeys about my reasons for leaving whereas the owner/manager (or whomever) of my local restaurant will, there's a time, a place and a method to complain and it differs depending on the situation.

And, do you know what, those people too lazy or stupid to shop around every year help keep my premium down.

Rows Grower

D13exile wrote: »

God you are so cynical my friend. Do you not believe in calling out people/business on sharp practices? If you went to a restaurant and had a crap meal handed up to you with lousy service, would you complain or just shut up, pay up and walk out saying "I'll never go back"? That is the typical Irish way which is why nothing ever changes in this country. Perhaps if people called out businesses on price gouging, bad service etc, things might change? Isn't this forum here for that very reason? If i get good service, I thank the business and return to them. If I get lousy service, I complain. Sometimes, it works and things get resolved. Sometimes it doesn't and I take my business elsewhere. I work hard for my money and I expect to get value for it when I spend it whether on goods or services. But I know I'm in the minority.

You're dead right D13, we shouldn't accept bad service and if we do things won't change.

I got a renewal quote in writing from a company recently for vintage insurance, same situation as yourself no claims, no penalty points in over 30 years driving. I then was cold called by the same company a week or so later. When I questioned why my quote had gone up I was told "Shur it's only 12 euro" I said if 12 euro means so little to you why don't you drop last years premium by 12 euro so?

They had quoted me 165 euro third party but didn't include "charges and fees",
I asked for the proper third party quote and they wanted more than the price of fully comprehensive.

I requested a transcript of the call under the data protection act and after waiting over a month to get it then made a written complaint to their compliance officer outlining they are obliged by law to quote for third party when they issue a fully comprehensive renewal quote and what they issued me was not a proper quote.

They responded that they have taken my feedback on board and will from now on be improving their correspondence with customers and they are undertaking a review of all documentation which they will be updating in the coming months.

They also offered to waive all charges and fees associated with my next renewal quote.

As is my prerogative I will now raise my concerns and forward all relevant information to the Financial Services and Pensions Ombudsman.

Xterminator

Its not unique to insurance that the good offers go to new customers to entice them to switch.

Same applies to broadband, gas electricity health insurance, etc etc. They know a % of people will just renew without shopping around and operate on the principle they make more of a profit than if they gave everyone their best price off the bat..

There is a responsibility on a consumer to shop around too. If enough people did not renew without shopping around, business practice would change.

brightspark

When I get my renewal notice I usually ring and ask them if it is their best quote, letting them know I will not ring them again. Then I ring the other companies, cheapest gets the business.

Sleeper12

All Insurance companies issue a renewal for higher than a regular policy. A huge amount of people just pay it. If you ring & challenge it you will get 10 to 20 percent off

Wheety

I tried One Big Switch earlier for a quote. Was €308. Cheapest I've ever been quoted. That's with It's for Women. Was €355 for some extras like breakdown assist.

There’s no regulation of them so they do what they like. If I could do what I liked without recourse I’d probably rip off everyone too.

corks finest

D13exile wrote: »

I received my car insurance renewal from FBD yesterday. I paid €456 last year and this year's renewal is €500. I haven't had a claim since 1990, I have no penalty points, and I am the only driver on the policy. The car (Qashqai) is 9 years old, and only worth about €5,000. So why the hell has my insurance gone up when reports say that insurance costs are dropping?

Well bearing in mind the good work done by Pearse Doherty of Sinn Fein (I've no party allegiances but at least he does something useful, unlike the other useless ba$tards in the dail) in bringing to light the insurance industry practice of giving cheap deals to new customers while ramping up quotes for existing customers, I went online yesterday and did a trawl of insurance companies for quotes. Of the 9 quotes I received, 2 were higher than FBD while the rest were cheaper, up to €140 cheaper in one case. So I then checked FBD's own website and sought a quote online as a new customer. Bearing in mind my FBD renewal was €500, which was €44 higher than last year, what did I get quoted online by FBD? €407, almost a hundred euro cheaper than the renewal they posted to my house. So despite the insurance industry getting a good grilling from Doherty last month, they're still trying to rip off existing customers who might not have the good sense to shop around, or even to seek a fresh quote from their existing insurance provider.

So do I bother phoning FBD to have a good rant at some poor sod who only works there and isn't responsible for this price gouging, or just say screw you FBD and go elsewhere seeing as I got three cheaper quotes than this anyway?

They're gangster's end of

Rubberchikken

Loyalty means nothing to companies any more.

Why new customers should benefit over customers who have been with a company for years is at the most basic level, unfair.

As a business model, it stinks.

mickdw

All the talk of P Doherty hauling them over the coals is horse sh1t. He caught one chap on the hop and that guy didnt manage to come up with a coherent answer to a pretty basic question. A half awake insurance representative would have batted away his questions. Doherty is not the messiah.

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

All the talk of P Doherty hauling them over the coals is horse sh1t. He caught one chap on the hop and that guy didnt manage to come up with a coherent answer to a pretty basic question. A half awake insurance representative would have batted away his questions. Doherty is not the messiah.

They were caught lying about figures. The problem is our attitude is to complain a bit, maybe post a facebook link, and then quietly go back to being rode.

corks finest

mickdw wrote: »

All the talk of P Doherty hauling them over the coals is horse sh1t. He caught one chap on the hop and that guy didnt manage to come up with a coherent answer to a pretty basic question. A half awake insurance representative would have batted away his questions. Doherty is not the messiah.

He did more in a few minutes than FF/FG did in 30 years

Triangle

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

There’s no regulation of them so they do what they like. If I could do what I liked without recourse I’d probably rip off everyone too.

Absolute trumpism, if you looked into it, they are highly regulated. They have plenty of Central Bank regulations like the consumer protection code, GDPR, solvency 2, regulations like the road traffic act, as well as plenty more to adhere to.

MillField

Bottom line is - no matter what quote you receive always shop around and see can you get a better price.

Rows Grower

Triangle wrote: »

Absolute trumpism, if you looked into it, they are highly regulated. They have plenty of Central Bank regulations like the consumer protection code, GDPR, solvency 2, regulations like the road traffic act, as well as plenty more to adhere to.

If you read this thread you'd see the regulations are not being adhered to.

Rows Grower

corks finest wrote: »

He did more in a few minutes than FF/FG did in 30 years

He sure did and he got the truth exposed by doing his homework and acting without fear or favour.

BronsonTB

You need to shop around every year. Ringing them is nearly always better than online.

You should have no loyalty to an insurance company...they won't have any to you!

Just like a TV / Electricity service....always shop around each year.

Uncle Pierre

I'm going to agree with one thing being said here, but disagree with another.

First – agree that existing customers might not always get the best deal with the renewal quote sent to them by post. I just got mine a few days ago. Quote was €348 (roughly the same as last year). I did the usual shop around by getting quotes from other companies online, and the cheapest with anybody else was €412. So obviously I’m going to stick with my current insurer.

But then I entered details on their site too and got a quote for €317, thanks to their online discount. Rang them up and they confirmed I could do it that way for that price. So point being that an existing customer might not always get the best price if they don’t get a “new” quote from that insurer anyway.

BUT – as regards loyalty – the price breakdown of my quote shows a customer loyalty discount of €81 since I’ve been with the same crowd for a few years now (and yes, I always shop around, and yes, they’re always the cheapest). Large part of why they’re the cheapest is this loyalty discount. So I have to disagree with the people here who claim that insurance companies will show no loyalty to you.

Incidentally, I also have my home insurance with the same company. Again, it’s the cheapest I could find for home insurance. And because I’ve got both car and home with them, I qualify for free annual multi-trip travel insurance for my family, that would cost me about €90 if I had to pay for it myself.

I must be just one of the lucky ones…

Triangle

Rows Grower wrote: »

If you read this thread you'd see the regulations are not being adhered to.

Maybe I missed it, but there's no regulation on renewal premiums and any breaches of the regulation leads to sanctions from the central bank or financial ombudsman.

But I was replying to someone, whom you seemed to have missed, saying there is no regulation.

Henry Ford III

Don't be surprised by a higher renewal premium. That often happens.

Just shop around and be prepared to move providers annually.

Rows Grower

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

I'm going to agree with one thing being said here, but disagree with another.

First – agree that existing customers might not always get the best deal with the renewal quote sent to them by post. I just got mine a few days ago. Quote was €348 (roughly the same as last year). I did the usual shop around by getting quotes from other companies online, and the cheapest with anybody else was €412. So obviously I’m going to stick with my current insurer.

But then I entered details on their site too and got a quote for €317, thanks to their online discount. Rang them up and they confirmed I could do it that way for that price. So point being that an existing customer might not always get the best price if they don’t get a “new” quote from that insurer anyway.

BUT – as regards loyalty – the price breakdown of my quote shows a customer loyalty discount of €81 since I’ve been with the same crowd for a few years now (and yes, I always shop around, and yes, they’re always the cheapest). Large part of why they’re the cheapest is this loyalty discount. So I have to disagree with the people here who claim that insurance companies will show no loyalty to you.

Incidentally, I also have my home insurance with the same company. Again, it’s the cheapest I could find for home insurance. And because I’ve got both car and home with them, I qualify for free annual multi-trip travel insurance for my family, that would cost me about €90 if I had to pay for it myself.

I must be just one of the lucky ones…

So you agree that existing customers don't get the best deal for renewals in the post but you disagree that insurance companies show no loyalty to them.

Clear as mud, thanks for clearing that up.

How about insurance companies use the technology they have available to them and before renewal is due do the homework and just issue one written quote that they know is the most competitive they can provide?

Then they won't have to employ the tele sales people who are the bane of most customers lives, will save customers wasting valuable time and suffering needless stress while also saving a lot off their wage bill and thus be able to provide a better quote again and still be a profitable enterprise.

Rows Grower

Triangle wrote: »

Maybe I missed it, but there's no regulation on renewal premiums and any breaches of the regulation leads to sanctions from the central bank or financial ombudsman.

But I was replying to someone, whom you seemed to have missed, saying there is no regulation.

Yeah, you missed that alright.

white_westie

I know this is about car insurance, but house insurance was up for renewal this month, renewal notice was approx 50€ more than last year. Same happened last year, but after a phone call got it reduced by 50€.
So before doing the rounds this year of getting quotes, I decided to do an online quote with my current provider and it was over a 100€ cheaper than renewal quote! Normally this is not the case.
Rang them up and asked them to check the quote, and after going through the checklist fully the quote was correct, so I took it.
The difference was not due to discounts etc, because the gross quote for the house and contents was higher than that of the renewal - this should not be the case as its the same address, same age etc hence the same risk!
I'm sure the same applies to cars - the base starting quote is much higher.

While the insurance industry may have mumbled about changes to Mr Doherty's queries they are still screwing existing customers.

Uncle Pierre

Rows Grower wrote: »

So you agree that existing customers don't get the best deal for renewals in the post but you disagree that insurance companies show no loyalty to them.

Clear as mud, thanks for clearing that up.

Wow, you really want to pick a fight, don’t you?

Let me try to “un-muddy” things for you:
I get a CUSTOMER LOYALTY BONUS from the insurer I’ve been with for the past few years. This makes their price LOWER than any other quote I can find.

It just so happens that I can then get a further discount if I renew online instead of by post. I see this as an added bonus. And now having looked again at the hard copy renewal documents I got in the post, I see a bit that tells me I can save more by renewing online and invites me to log in to my account there, so it’s not as though they were trying to hide it from me altogether.

Overall I’ll be paying €95 less to them than I would be to anyone else (€317 instead of €412). I’ll also get another €90 annual travel insurance policy for free for next year. Overall I’ll be €185 better off. And that’s all through them giving certain discounts and bonuses to existing customers.

BronsonTB

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Wow, you really want to pick a fight, don’t you?

Let me try to “un-muddy” things for you:
I get a CUSTOMER LOYALTY BONUS from the insurer I’ve been with for the past few years. This makes their price LOWER than any other quote I can find.

It just so happens that I can then get a further discount if I renew online instead of by post. I see this as an added bonus. And now having looked again at the hard copy renewal documents I got in the post, I see a bit that tells me I can save more by renewing online and invites me to log in to my account there, so it’s not as though they were trying to hide it from me altogether.

Overall I’ll be paying €95 less to them than I would be to anyone else (€317 instead of €412). I’ll also get another €90 annual travel insurance policy for free for next year. Overall I’ll be €185 better off. And that’s all through them giving certain discounts and bonuses to existing customers.

In your case you do get loyalty, enjoy the savings as your circumstances are rare and not the norm from what most here experience from the Insurance companies.

Uncle Pierre

BronsonTB wrote: »

In your case you do get loyalty, enjoy the savings as your circumstances are rare and not the norm from what most here experience from the Insurance companies.

Thank you for a more reasonable contribution than others are making.

Yes, as I acknowledged originally, I must be one of the lucky ones. But just wanted to point out that it's wrong to throw out blanket statements like "they'll show no loyalty to you", as others have been doing.

DesperateDan

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Wow, you really want to pick a fight, don’t you?

Let me try to “un-muddy” things for you:
I get a CUSTOMER LOYALTY BONUS from the insurer I’ve been with for the past few years. This makes their price LOWER than any other quote I can find.

Who is your insurer, is there a reason you don't mention them? Seems like an unusual operation.

Uncle Pierre

DesperateDan wrote: »

Who is your insurer, is there a reason you don't mention them? Seems like an unusual operation.

Wasn't going to name them for fear I'd be accused of advertising or being employed by them or otherwise connected with them myself. But if it's okay to say, it's Aviva.

Rows Grower

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Wow, you really want to pick a fight, don’t you?

Let me try to “un-muddy” things for you:
I get a CUSTOMER LOYALTY BONUS from the insurer I’ve been with for the past few years. This makes their price LOWER than any other quote I can find.

It just so happens that I can then get a further discount if I renew online instead of by post. I see this as an added bonus. And now having looked again at the hard copy renewal documents I got in the post, I see a bit that tells me I can save more by renewing online and invites me to log in to my account there, so it’s not as though they were trying to hide it from me altogether.

Overall I’ll be paying €95 less to them than I would be to anyone else (€317 instead of €412). I’ll also get another €90 annual travel insurance policy for free for next year. Overall I’ll be €185 better off. And that’s all through them giving certain discounts and bonuses to existing customers.

No, is the simple answer to that question Pierre.

corks finest

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Thank you for a more reasonable contribution than others are making.

Yes, as I acknowledged originally, I must be one of the lucky ones. But just wanted to point out that it's wrong to throw out blanket statements like "they'll show no loyalty to you", as others have been doing.

What company? As I've not heard of customer loyalty discount reference motor insurance, I'm with liberty and will definitely be asking about it in May when my car insurance is up, thanks

Uncle Pierre

Rows Grower wrote: »

No, is the simple answer to that question Pierre.

Okay. We friends then?

corks finest

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Wasn't going to name them for fear I'd be accused of advertising or being employed by them or otherwise connected with them myself. But if it's okay to say, it's Aviva.

Thank you