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Cathal Berry

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  • 10-03-2020 7:37pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭


    I seen last week Cathal Berry was aligning him self with what I think they are calling them selves the rural alliance. They have said they would go in to government with FF & FG so they would likely get to ministers. Could we cathal berry as Defence Minister and if so would he make a difference or would the DOD just eat him?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Interesting question!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,109 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    roadmaster wrote: »
    I seen last week Cathal Berry was aligning him self with what I think they are calling them selves the rural alliance. They have said they would go in to government with FF & FG so they would likely get to ministers. Could we cathal berry as Defence Minister and if so would he make a difference or would the DOD just eat him?




    He seems to be a great all rounder, EX ARW Operator & now a Doctor I believe, he would be great from the DF.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Is that the Healy Rae bunch and associates


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,889 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Is that the Healy Rae bunch and associates
    Yep, so rural drink driving is back on the list as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭mikeym


    Its fantastic that DF members votes helped Cathal get elected to the Dail.

    I dont he shouldnt be part of any technical group or associated with Fianna Fail or Fine Gael.

    Im not going to bash the man because I believe he will speak up for members of the DF.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,859 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    No Cathal Berry shouldn't be Minister for Defence, he's been a public representative and politician for about 10 seconds.

    I'd much rather see him as a voice for DF members and a good independent TD.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,685 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    No Cathal Berry shouldn't be Minister for Defence, he's been a public representative and politician for about 10 seconds.

    I'd much rather see him as a voice for DF members and a good independent TD.

    He has over 20 years experience in the DF, he knows how it and the DOD works, something neither Varadker nor Kehoe know.

    Neither of them have been a soldier for 10 seconds but are responsivle for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,859 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    He has over 20 years experience in the DF, he knows how it and the DOD works, something neither Varadker nor Kehoe know.

    Neither of them have been a soldier for 10 seconds but are responsivle for it.

    Being minister for defence has nothing to do with soldiering, just like being minister for health has nothing to do with setting broken arms and operating on tumours.

    We have a committee of generals and vice admirals and what not to manage the soldiering, the Minister counts the beans and dictates high level policy. I know Cathal Berry is a highly intelligent and capable person but his career experience to this point in no way prepares him to be a cabinet minister.

    And unless he was involved in procurement or training design or strategic planning of some sort, no, he hasn't a clue how the DoD works.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,685 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Being minister for defence has nothing to do with soldiering, just like being minister for health has nothing to do with setting broken arms and operating on tumours.

    We have a committee of generals and vice admirals and what not to manage the soldiering, the Minister counts the beans and dictates high level policy. I know Cathal Berry is a highly intelligent and capable person but his career experience to this point in no way prepares him to be a cabinet minister.

    And unless he was involved in procurement or training design or strategic planning of some sort, no, he hasn't a clue how the DoD works.

    Having a Minister for Defence with prior operational military experience would badly bridge the gap between civilian DOD policy and the DF. There is a serious disconnect due to DOD incompetitence and general distain towards the DF.

    If we had a Minister who knew Defence Forces policy, proceedures and issues it would cut out the mismanagement at DOD level which has eroded the DF personnel and capability since 2007.

    A Minister for Defence who knows his brief would not have tolerated such a decline in the institution and would not pander to DOD pressures.

    He also doesnt need to have experience in Strategic Planning etc as we have officers and whatnot that do work there. He does have experience in procurment in two specialist areas.

    Can you tell me what experience Varadkar/Keohe have that they have drawn upon for allowing the continued decline and neglect of the DF?

    There would be very very few professional soldiers who would agree with your viewpoint.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,208 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    No Cathal Berry shouldn't be Minister for Defence, he's been a public representative and politician for about 10 seconds.

    Six TDs have been appointed minister on their first day in the Dail, usually those who have prior specialist knowledge of their portfolio.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,859 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Six TDs have been appointed minister on their first day in the Dail, usually those who have prior specialist knowledge of their portfolio.

    Anybody good?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,640 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    sparky42 wrote: »
    Yep, so rural drink driving is back on the list as well.

    Not just drink driving we could also have Air Station Farronfore for the new casas if they had there way!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,889 ✭✭✭sparky42


    roadmaster wrote: »
    Not just drink driving we could also have Air Station Farronfore for the new casas if they had there way!


    Nah, they've no interest in that, now the Army might need to deploy to cut the Rhodo's down that way...


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,208 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Anybody good?

    Alan Dukes was appointed Minister for Agriculture on his first day in the Dail in 1981, he had been an economist for the IFA, unfortunately for him that government only lasted a few months.

    He later became a rather unpopular miniister for finance, but it wasn't his fault the country was broke!

    In 1997-8 I was working for Revenue in Dublin Castle dealing primarily with queries from TDs (99% of which were pointless, Mrs Kelly on her old age pension was being taxed because of the massive rental or other income she didn't mention to her TD on the doorstep) and one eveninig when no-one else was around a call came through on the red telephone which was a hotline to the Dail. (It was actually a red phone!) It was Alan Dukes and he was a complete gent, not like some I could mention who regarded civil servants as skivvies.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭mosii


    I think he is heading for Fine Gael ,if my experience is anything to go by, he will get probably get something for the Defence Forces ,something trivial in the real world, and i am afraid we wont hear of him in public again.Sorry for been cynical,but he is powerless.


  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭Notmything


    mosii wrote: »
    I think he is heading for Fine Gael ,if my experience is anything to go by, he will get probably get something for the Defence Forces ,something trivial in the real world, and i am afraid we wont hear of him in public again.Sorry for been cynical,but he is powerless.

    Supported Michael Martin last time there was a vote for taoiseach


  • Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭mosii


    Notmything wrote: »
    Supported Michael Martin last time there was a vote for taoiseach

    Yeah,all different now,hes powerless now.:confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,041 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    OTOH, look at what Sean Doherty (ex-AGS Sergeant) did as Minister for Justice...

    [ I know nada about CB. ]

    Not your ornery onager



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,859 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Sean Doherty was a public representative for 9 years before he was appointed to the cabinet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭Glen Immal


    See Cathal Berry has become the first TD to get the C19 vaccine


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,859 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    It should be said he received it because he is currently working in the testing system in Kildare, in his capacity as a Medical Doctor. Just in case someone wonders what gave him priority.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭Pat Dunne


    roadmaster wrote: »
    I seen last week Cathal Berry was aligning him self with what I think they are calling them selves the rural alliance. They have said they would go in to government with FF & FG so they would likely get to ministers. Could we cathal berry as Defence Minister and if so would he make a difference or would the DOD just eat him?

    First time minister with no experience of how a Government Department “really” works. The senior Civil Servants would tie him up in knots, before lunchtime of the first day on the job
    Sir Humphrey, is alive and well and thrives in the Irish Civil Service!


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,208 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    :rolleyes:

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭AlphabetCards


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Being minister for defence has nothing to do with soldiering, just like being minister for health has nothing to do with setting broken arms and operating on tumours.

    We have a committee of generals and vice admirals and what not to manage the soldiering, the Minister counts the beans and dictates high level policy. I know Cathal Berry is a highly intelligent and capable person but his career experience to this point in no way prepares him to be a cabinet minister.

    And unless he was involved in procurement or training design or strategic planning of some sort, no, he hasn't a clue how the DoD works.

    While I agree here, you have to look at it from another angle. The Generals and Vice-admirals are constrained by being part of the system that pays them. It doesn't make sense to speak out at that point in their careers, because they are essentially at political-level appointments. Rocking the boat, or even displaying pragmatism in contrary to current policy is one way to see themselves put under the spotlight.

    Being a 'free agent' yet having vast experience in medicine and military matters - being ex-SF and a medical officer he has bags of both from an administrative point - gives him a prime set of eyes to look at problems from both ends.

    To address this line of yours "procurement or training design or strategic planning of some sort", well, military procurement is bloated these days. There's no need to take on the faults of the current system - that's what his civil servants are for - but he can certainly look to cut the corners. We've all seen the waste that occurs all along the supply chain in defence.

    I think a great example of this is Johnny Mercer MP, over in the UK. He pretty much landed himself in starting the UKs Veterans Affairs from the get go, and he seems to be doing well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,208 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Ex-SF???

    MoD in the UK has tried to cut corners many times and it invariably works out badly. SA-80, anyone?

    They could eliminate cost overruns by just paying BAe three times what they're asking at the outset :pac:

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Ex-SF???

    Wasn't he in the Rangers?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,685 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Wasn't he in the Rangers?

    Yes, he was the Officer Commanding of the ARW for a while.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭mikeym


    Cathal Berry wants Non Irish people in the DF to get Irish Citizenship because the American Military issues Green Cards to Non Americans.

    Cathal should know the difference between a Green Card and Actual American Citizenship.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    DoD would eat him alive and would probably be keen to give him a rough ride as a minister do so just as show him that he can't rock in out of the ranks and start thinking he can run the show.

    Ministers are temporary governors. The real governors are the senior civil servants. They talk to the new cabinet on day one and set it straight for them. You can do A,B and C. You can't to X Y and Z.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,859 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    mikeym wrote: »
    Cathal Berry wants Non Irish people in the DF to get Irish Citizenship because the American Military issues Green Cards to Non Americans.

    Cathal should know the difference between a Green Card and Actual American Citizenship.

    Only three categories of people are eligible for service. Irish citizens, EEA citizens and certified refugees.

    The first doesn't need Irish citizenship, the second has no reason to acquire it and the third are likely as scarce as hen's teeth in the Forces in the first place.

    Whats the point of what he's suggesting?


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