Rugby forum

lawrencesummers

Banned for “personal abuse”

Mod quoted this post to me and banned me for personal abuse
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112759047&postcount=986

Please have a look over the thread, this poster I quoted has consistently posted derogatory terms about people and is the one being abusive. I neither played anything personal or abusive about him.

Regards
LS

Beasty

Have you attempted to resolve this directly with the mod who banned you? That is the first step in the Dispute Resolution Process

Thanks

lawrencesummers

Beasty wrote: »

Have you attempted to resolve this directly with the mod who banned you? That is the first step in the Dispute Resolution Process

Thanks

Yes, he has told me that he is having personal problems at home and doesn’t want to talk about it.

Beasty

Very well, please be prepared to share the PM conversation here when a CMod has chance to look at this

lawrencesummers

Will do.

Steve

Hi lawrencesummers,

Can you post here or forward to me the pm discussion you had with the mod relating to this.

Thanks.

lawrencesummers

Posted by lawrencesummers
Your the one giving me a ban for personal abuse. I never abused anybody, let alone say anything personal about them. So stand by your ban and show me where I personally abused somebody in the post you quoted.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zzippy
Trolling, personal abuse, backseat moderation, take your pick. You have had numerous warnings to change your posting style but you continue to be needlessly antagonistic to other posters and just drag threads into a ****fest. Consider this a final warning. Next ban will be much longer if you don't change your attitude.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrencesummers
Personal abuse? Where exactly? THat poster has done nothing in his last 5 posts but try and wind people up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zzippy
Dear lawrencesummers,

You have been banned from Rugby for two weeks for personal abuse.

This site is for civil discussion and so we don't allow discussion to descend into name calling and petty abuse.

Please see the Boards.ie FAQ for more details.

If you wish to appeal this ban you can see details on how to do so here.

Zzippy

Moderator Note

Only back from a ban and you can't help yourself. You add nothing to the forum except being a wind up merchant. Take another hike.

Your post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrencesummers View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clegg View Post
The rugby forum took a turn for the worse after the world cup.

Hasn't recovered really.
Take a Look at your own recent contributions, they aren’t up to much.

Steve

Hi,

I've had a look at this.

Firstly, in isolation it, appeared to be actionable under forum rules but maybe not the extent of a 2 week ban. You were certainly not arguing a discussion point - moreso having a pop at another user.

In rugby terms, this is akin to tackling off the ball and is not allowed.

I also reviewed the sanction applied, and doing this involves reviewing your recent history in the forum.

In the last 6 months you have attracted 10 mod actions including 2 bans prior to this one. You are clearly not getting the message that what how you are posting is not in the best interests of the forum and cannot continue to be allowed.

The recent mod action messages I referred to included the words:

Note: This is your last warning.

Note: You had a final warning and you still ....

Note: You've appeared on the radar far too often

And the latest one:

Note: Only back from a ban and you can't help yourself.

I cannot see how the mod acted in error in applying the ban and I also find that the duration was, at minimum, appropriate.

I also would like to suggest that if you do not take this sanction on board then the next one will be for a lot longer.

Ban and duration upheld.

You may appeal my decision to admin per the process, please indicate if you wish to do so.

lawrencesummers

I’m confused, I’m here to discuss a ban that I think is wrong and your talking about previous incidents that I have taken on board. I’m also confused that you say in your reply above the ban “appeared actionable... but not the extent of the 2 week ban”

And then you say it was appropriate at minimum.

I’m also a grown up, and find the need to include a threat of a longer ban in the future unnecessary and frankly childish.

I think you should take the time to read the thread, one where I was ACTUALLY personally abused ( https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112757614&postcount=900 ) with no action taken, and I was replying to a poster that was having an issue with everybody’s posting on an entire forum. A poster who has slated everybody and the entire forum but isn’t stopped or warned. A little bit of consistency In moderation would go a long way

If you can explain to me where the personal abuse is in that then fine, but making this issue about previous incidents is akin in rugby terms As you put it to giving a player a yellow card for an offense in a different game.

Steve

Hi, I'll try and explain it better.

There are two main factors I look at in any appeal.

First: Was the mod action justified?

Taken in isolation (without history or anything else included), the content of your post, when compared to the forum rules was, in my opinion, actionable.

appeared actionable... but not the extent of the 2 week ban

If this had been an isolated indecent, 2 weeks indeed seemed to me to be harsh, however this leads on to the second part of my review, the appropriateness on the sanction applied.

As I outlined above, I took a look at your recent history on the forum and as I detailed in my post above, you had already been warned and 'final warned' and indeed banned for similar disregard for the rules. In light of that, I ruled the 2 week ban was appropriate - personally I would have applied a month.

I’m also a grown up, and find the need to include a threat of a longer ban in the future unnecessary and frankly childish.

It's not a threat, it will happen if you do not heed the many recent warnings. The forum rules are clear that there is an escalating penalty system in place. This is standard across the site.

If you can explain to me where the personal abuse is in that then fine, but making this issue about previous incidents is akin in rugby terms As you put it to giving a player a yellow card for an offense in a different game.

It is deemed personal abuse if you, as I explained above, have a pop at another user rather than argue their point in a reasonable manner. The previous incidents only come into play when deciding the sanction. In rugby terms, if you are pinged for several law breaches, you will eventually get shown a red.

I think you should take the time to read the thread, one where I was ACTUALLY personally abused ( https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/show...&postcount=900 ) with no action taken, and I was replying to a poster that was having an issue with everybody’s posting on an entire forum. A poster who has slated everybody and the entire forum but isn’t stopped or warned. A little bit of consistency In moderation would go a long way

OK, That's something I will talk to the rugby mods about. I see you reported the post at the time. Please note that not all mod actions are as visible as cards issued, so it may appear that no action was taken when that may or may not be the case. Either way, it's beyond my remit or permission to discuss it with you here but I will certainly follow up on it.


Again, my decision stands, please let me know if you wish to have an admin review.

Thanks.

lawrencesummers

The only review that needs to be had is why I can be personally abused without consequence while others can’t. The bans for personal abuse are clear and haven’t been taken against someone else EVEN when I reported it.

And you still haven’t explained the personal element of what I said. I questioned the contributions of the poster, not anything personal about him, just what he / she was / wasn’t contributing to the forum. I didn’t have a pop at him, call him anything or insult him.

It’s pretty clear From what your saying that this ban is over the top and a over reaction by the mod Who has Clearly taken a dislike to me and it’s now being justified because of previous indiscretions. .

Steve

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The only review that needs to be had is why I can be personally abused without consequence while others can’t. The bans for personal abuse are clear and haven’t been taken against someone else EVEN when I reported it.

Mod actions on other users are not up for discussion here. I have raised and dealt with anything that needed to be done there with the mods.

And you still haven’t explained the personal element of what I said. I questioned the contributions of the poster, not anything personal about him, just what he / she was / wasn’t contributing to the forum. I didn’t have a pop at him, call him anything or insult him.

OK, one last time.

Someone posts "Red is yellow"

You can respond two ways.

Correct way "Well actually, I disagree, red is not yellow and here is my reason for disagreeing with you....[insert reason]"

What you said "Take a Look at your own recent contributions, they aren't up to much." In other words, "I'm rubbishing your recent posts rather than arguing the point and I'm not providing any reason for it.. "

It’s pretty clear From what your saying that this ban is over the top and a over reaction by the mod Who has Clearly taken a dislike to me and it’s now being justified because of previous indiscretions. .

That is not clear at all, I'm not sure how many more times I can explain it to you.

Again, please let me know if you wish a further review by admin as I feel I have exhausted all avenues of me trying to explain it to you.

lawrencesummers

I would like it to be further reviewed, the example you give about “red is yellow”
At no point addresses what I have repeatedly asked for, to point out how I have personally abused a poster.

Its clear that I said nothing personal, as in “your a ****head with your red is yellow nonsense” Which would be personal abuse. I feel that there has been absolutely no independent analysis of what has happened here, you have just chosen to justify the ban based on prior interactions as you grasp at straws to justify the mistaken assertion of personal abuse.

Just to be clear, because I might not have explained it simply enough, I questioned the quality of a posters posts. Nothing rude, abusive or personal. Just the quality, or more so the lack of quality of what they posted.

Other posters actions are not up for discussion, but the application of completely inconsistent modding is the real issue here, as long as that has and is allowed to happen. One poster can slate me personally and nothing happens, and one poster can slate the entire forum and equally nothing happens.

Beasty

Apologies for the delay, but we've had quite a bit to deal with over the past week or two

Having looked at this I am happy with both the mod's original decision and Steve's review here

You basically do not seem to appreciate that sanctions will escalate rapidly, and in this case there is explicit reference to that in the Charter as well as a sticky indicating a zero tolerance policy particularly though the 6 Nations tournament (which was still a "live" tournament at the time)

When I look at some of your posts leading up to this sanction I can see exactly the sort of behaviour that forum rules are trying to prevent. I have also though had a look at your record in the Rugby forum and will note you have picked up 1 yellow card and 6 red cards plus 2 other forum bans (totalling 3 weeks) between 15 January and 7 March when this third ban was applied

Now just think about that. There are 52 days between those two dates and you were banned for 21 of those days. You have picked up 9 forum sanctions in 31 days. What surprises me is this is only a 2 week ban, and I have given serious consideration to upgrading it to permanent

However I recognise there is likely to be little discussion in the forum while sport is pretty much banned during the current pandemic. You will regain access in another day or so, and I hope you take this experience as a lesson. Hopefully you will post in a more reasonable fashion, as if you don't I would be supportive of a permanent ban

Ban upheld

lawrencesummers

That’s just a load of waffle about previous posts.

I have no issue with sanctions where they are warranted, an i in fact had to report a post for personally abusing me, but I expected no less to be honest as nobody is going to come along and overrule a mod when they have clearly over stepped their remit and had an over reaction to a post. There was no personal abuse in what I posted, which is what the ban was for its also pretty clear you didn’t look at the thread that the ban came from where ACTUAL personal abuse is tolerated towards me and the wider forum in general but then I received a ban.

It’s clear that some Posters get more moderated than others.

Beasty

Ban upheld, marking resolved

Please heed the warning about your future behaviour in my previous post