Can my boss prohibit me from travelling?

InPsyDer

Communication has gone out from management in my job recently telling employees that they are prohibited from travelling, in response to the current coronavirus situation.

I already have 2 holidays booked and paid for this year. One is in just a few weeks and while I totally understand the seriousness of the virus and that any such advice about travel is intended for the benefit of all employees, surely my employer does not have the right to just announce to me that I may not travel?

I am still very much minded to go ahead with my trip but don't want to feel like I have to conceal the fact that I went away just because of my work saying not to, especially as if I did feel unwell upon return I would of course want to be able to advise HR immediately.

Can I be disciplined in any way if I decide to go ahead? If my work is going to insist on this are they obliged to reimburse me for the cost of flights? (Apologies, I don't wish to sound selfish as I know a lot of people have been tragically affected by the virus but this is more about trying to understand what my personal rights are here)

danoriordan1402

Are they not just referencing work related travel? Our place is the same, no trips to the other centres in US, India, etc etc. They can hardly stop your personal travel.... that's your call.

anewme

Interesting discussion Op and I'm sure one which is happening in a lot of work places.

Other staff may not want to work alongside you after you came back. That's come up in our office anyway.

danoriordan1402

danoriordan1402 wrote: »

Are they not just referencing work related travel? Our place is the same, no trips to the other centres in US, India, etc etc. They can hardly stop your personal travel.... that's your call.

You’d be surprised how many think they can though. A lot of them have the attitude that they own you.

OP, follow HSE advice and take all precautions but if you can go then you can go. If the company is trying to stop that it would never hold up.

Harry Palmr

Don;t be shocked if you are told to self isolate if you are coming back from a country which has the virus, two weeks unpaid leave.

InPsyDer

From the phrasing of it I took it as referencing travel in general, not just for business. I totally understand no employer (or team!) wants anyone coming in spreading bugs and making people sick. I would stand to lose several hundred euro with no recourse from insurance by following this instruction though so I'm really hoping I can make my own call about what to do in my personal time without it becoming a serious HR conversation afterwards... Just not sure if it's something an employer could legally enforce or not.

Paul_Mc1988

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Don;t be shocked if you are told to self isolate if you are coming back from a country which has the virus, two weeks unpaid leave.

Hes fit to work and is not taking any sick leave. If hes contracted to work 40 hours and the boss tells him to stay at home hes entitled to be paid. He can go to the doctor to get a fit to work note and hell be well covered.

Baseball72

Our company have stated no international travel for business, and not to visit other offices where we might have 2 locations in the one city.

I have holiday planned for June overseas and can work from home upon return - but hopefully by June it will not be an issue.

con747

Check your contract and ask for clarification as to whether it is for a work or pleasure ban. Personally I can't see how if you have time booked off and holidays paid for why they could stop you. These are strange times though so that's just my opinion.

Strumms

In your time off, the company has zero entitlement to know....

Where you have been

What you are doing

Who you are with

There have zero entitlement to enforce a travel ban or any other conditions to you being off on annual leave, fûck them quite frankly, go away, enjoy, if they ask what you are doing or where you are going... ‘just taking a break’ ..short, sharp and leave it at that.

Ficheall

How much do you hate your coworkers?

blackwave

Strumms wrote: »

In your time off, the company has zero entitlement to know....

Where you have been

What you are doing

Who you are with

There have zero entitlement to enforce a travel ban or any other conditions to you being off on annual leave, fûck them quite frankly, go away, enjoy, if they ask what you are doing or where you are going... ‘just taking a break’ ..short, sharp and leave it at that.

I think the employer has a right to know at least out of decency. Like if you visit a infected country you are risking the whole of the office getting sick if you were unlucky enough to catch it while away. Imagine facing your workers when you came back and a few of them had caught it from you.

Op I doubt they can stop you but is there any option to work from home if you did go?

fritzelly

No employer can tell you what you can do or where you can go on your holidays
You have no obligation to tell them what your plans are
You could go anywhere in the world and come back with a dose

Employers have a duty to protect their employees ergo the ban on business travel in some companies

bladespin

blackwave wrote: »

I think the employer has a right to know at least out of decency.

They do not have a right to know anything outside of your work but it would be the decent thing to do if there's a risk.

OMM 0000

InPsyDer wrote: »

From the phrasing of it I took it as referencing travel in general, not just for business.

I think you should get clarification on this, as people here are just going to assume your employer is evil. I don't understand how so many people here don't realise managers are humans too.

It is highly unlikely they are trying to control your private life. It is highly likely they were referring to staff traveling for business purposes.

We're also cancelled all travel.

jayzee

blackwave wrote: »

I think the employer has a right to know at least out of decency. Like if you visit a infected country you are risking the whole of the office getting sick if you were unlucky enough to catch it while away. Imagine facing your workers when you came back and a few of them had caught it from you.

Op I doubt they can stop you but is there any option to work from home if you did go?

But Ireland is an infected country.

yabadabado

blackwave wrote: »

I think the employer has a right to know at least out of decency. Like if you visit a infected country you are risking the whole of the office getting sick if you were unlucky enough to catch it while away. Imagine facing your workers when you came back and a few of them had caught it from you.

Op I doubt they can stop you but is there any option to work from home if you did go?

They don't have any right to know,if you want to tell them that fair enough but you aren't under any obligation.

yabadabado

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Don;t be shocked if you are told to self isolate if you are coming back from a country which has the virus, two weeks unpaid leave.

Incorrect.

If you want to attend work and are told not to by the employer as they want you to self isolate then they should be paying you.

Jim2007

InPsyDer wrote: »

I am still very much minded to go ahead with my trip but don't want to feel like I have to conceal the fact that I went away just because of my work saying not to, especially as if I did feel unwell upon return I would of course want to be able to advise HR immediately.

And if you don't actually get to come back, but end spending another two weeks or longer there, you'll do that without pay right?

Mrs OBumble

Strumms wrote: »

In your time off, the company has zero entitlement to know....

Where you have been

What you are doing

Who you are with.

Untrue.

They have every right to expect you not to bring the company into disrepute at home or abroad.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Untrue.

They have every right to expect you not to bring the company into disrepute at home or abroad.

This is why companies think they can walk over everyone.

Pauliedragon

InPsyDer wrote: »

Communication has gone out from management in my job recently telling employees that they are prohibited from travelling, in response to the current coronavirus situation.

I already have 2 holidays booked and paid for this year. One is in just a few weeks and while I totally understand the seriousness of the virus and that any such advice about travel is intended for the benefit of all employees, surely my employer does not have the right to just announce to me that I may not travel?

I am still very much minded to go ahead with my trip but don't want to feel like I have to conceal the fact that I went away just because of my work saying not to, especially as if I did feel unwell upon return I would of course want to be able to advise HR immediately.

Can I be disciplined in any way if I decide to go ahead? If my work is going to insist on this are they obliged to reimburse me for the cost of flights? (Apologies, I don't wish to sound selfish as I know a lot of people have been tragically affected by the virus but this is more about trying to understand what my personal rights are here)

Don't tell them what you are doing on the time off. Nobody at my workplace knows where I go on my holidays as it's none of their business. If someone asks just tell them you're spending the week on the couch taking a rest.

PatsyJ

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Don;t be shocked if you are told to self isolate if you are coming back from a country which has the virus, two weeks unpaid leave.

Not a chance.

dartboardio

I'd presume they mean work travel.

If they even thought they could tell me what to do in my own personal time I'd be laughing out the door! :V

Go on your holidays OP if you want to go on your holidays.

yabadabado

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Untrue.

They have every right to expect you not to bring the company into disrepute at home or abroad.

What right would that be ?
How is the OP bringing the company into disrepute?

nthclare

Aff this is getting out of hand, it's like a zombie apocalypse...

Mundo7976

If you were cancel your holiday would the company pay for it?
Neither would the insurance....

Blazer

Of course they mean work travel ffs. Have a bit of cop on for Christ’s sake.
If you really want to highlight your lack of intelligence at a senior level this is probably a great way to do it.
10 years on when someone is doing a grade review on you for a promotion or something, someone will bring up “is that the muppet that thought we were banning personal holidays lol”

AulWan

They can't stop you from travelling but I think its quite possible that you could be told to self-isolate for two weeks after your return.

With or without pay could depend on the company.

yabadabado

AulWan wrote: »

They can't stop you from travelling but I think its quite possible that you could be told to self-isolate for two weeks after your return.

With or without pay could depend on the company.

Why would it be without pay?
On what grounds would an employer have to make it unpaid leave ?

Tell them you’re talking the time off anyway even if you decide not to go on your holiday. All they really want is you to be in work.

AulWan

In my opinion, you'd be a right cnut if you went off on your holidays to a place with a lot of cases and then didn't say a word to anyone on your return about where you'd been, so they could at least take the proper precautions.

Strumms

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Untrue.

They have every right to expect you not to bring the company into disrepute at home or abroad.

So don’t bring them into disrepute...

Still...

In your time off, the company has zero entitlement to know....

Where you have been

What you are doing

Who you are with

OMM 0000

Strumms wrote: »

In your time off, the company has zero entitlement to know....

Where you have been

What you are doing

Who you are with

This gets complicated with social media though.

This is a stupid example, but imagine last weekend you went to a rally calling for the destruction of the West, and you put photos of it on your Twitter account, with text like "The only good westerner is a dead Westerner".

I think you probably could get fired for that.

OMM 0000

OMM 0000 wrote: »

This gets complicated with social media though.

This is a stupid example, but imagine last weekend you went to a rally calling for the destruction of the West, and you put photos of it on your Twitter account, with text like "The only good westerner is a dead Westerner".

I think you probably could get fired for that.

They’re going on a holiday, not defecting to North Korea.

whisky_galore

What is it any of their business whether you go for 2 weeks in Ulan Bator or 2 weeks in Ballybunion? As long as it's not an obvious hot spot or shut down area I don't see the problem.

Strumms

OMM 0000 wrote: »

This gets complicated with social media though.

This is a stupid example, but imagine last weekend you went to a rally calling for the destruction of the West, and you put photos of it on your Twitter account, with text like "The only good westerner is a dead Westerner".

I think you probably could get fired for that.

I agree, i was never overly keen to get ‘friending’ work colleagues unless I knew them for a good length of time and there was a good trust and similar mindset as regards their privacy expectations and yours..

OMM 0000

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

They’re going on a holiday, not defecting to North Korea.

I was responding to this:

Strumms wrote: »

In your time off, the company has zero entitlement to know....

Where you have been

What you are doing

Who you are with

OMM 0000

Strumms wrote: »

I agree, i was never overly keen to get ‘friending’ work colleagues unless I knew them for a good length of time and there was a good trust and similar mindset as regards their privacy expectations and yours..

Yes I think sharing social media with colleagues is risky unless you're genuine friends with them and can trust them.

For example, my wife is instagram friends with some of the staff she works with, and one of the girls was posting **** about her colleagues being morons and how she hates her job. The colleagues saw it, as they're also instagram friends with her.

What a clown!

OMM 0000

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Yes I think sharing social media with colleagues is risky unless you're genuine friends with them and can trust them.

For example, my wife is instagram friends with some of the staff she works with, and one of the girls was posting **** about her colleagues being morons and how she hates her job. The colleagues saw it, as they're also instagram friends with her.

What a clown!

It hardly matters if you have half the country on social media though. They have no right to tell you not to go on holidays once you’ve the time off.

OMM 0000

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

It hardly matters if you have half the country on social media though. They have no right to tell you not to go on holidays once you’ve the time off.

You're talking about something else.

I was responding to this:

Strumms wrote: »

In your time off, the company has zero entitlement to know....

Where you have been

What you are doing

Who you are with

But to stop this happening again, I'll respond directly to what you said:

It's none of your employer's business what you do in your private life, but your use of social media could embarrass your employer, or make you a problem employee (e.g. no one wants to employ a nazi), hence resulting in you being fired. This is your employer looking at your private life and using it against you.

That's the reason a lot of people write "opinions are my own and do not represent my employer" on their twitter profile.

AulWan

I can work from home, so if I hear of any of my work colleagues going on holidays to any hot spots, I'll be telling my boss I will be self isolating myself at home for two weeks after their return, if they are not asked to do so.

Jim2007

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

This is why companies think they can walk over everyone.

How about a bit of maturity... this is a serious situation, it is not just about you, it's about your colleagues and friends and possible even your job, if your company has to close down for a period.



Talk about being self centered

Jim2007

Jim2007 wrote: »

How about a bit of maturity... this is a serious situation, it is not just about you, it's about your colleagues and friends and possible even your job, if your company has to close down for a period.



Talk about being self centered

It’s about not bending over for people that won’t give one **** about you if business dries up.

Strumms

OMM 0000 wrote: »

You're talking about something else.

I was responding to this:



But to stop this happening again, I'll respond directly to what you said:

It's none of your employer's business what you do in your private life, but your use of social media could embarrass your employer, or make you a problem employee (e.g. no one wants to employ a nazi), hence resulting in you being fired. This is your employer looking at your private life and using it against you.

That's the reason a lot of people write "opinions are my own and do not represent my employer" on their twitter profile.

Nobody wants to hire a Nazi, 100% but nobody wants to work for one either.

Feeling you have to put a fûcking disclaimer on your Twitter is where we are at now. Tiptoeing around your employer as they influence the content of your social media, what you can post, written and photographs...

My social media never contained a pic taken in the workplace, never mentioned where I worked and never commented on work or work issues. My thoughts about work end 100% when I clock out and don’t enter my head again until I clock back in. Work phone gets turned off on departure and isn’t reactivated until I arrive in the morning. You gotta look after yourself, put it this way, I found the hard way....

InPsyDer

It's definitely not a case of going to a hot spot for my trip, which is really why I didn't like the implication that I could simply be instructed not to travel at all by my employer. From talking to others in work today though it sounds like everyone is interpreting it to mean only business travel is to cease, so I should be in the clear! There's a lot of gearing up for remote working going on now. Really might see a lot of changes in how companies equip staff to be able to work at home out of this virus.

OMM 0000

InPsyDer wrote: »

From talking to others in work today though it sounds like everyone is interpreting it to mean only business travel is to cease

Makes sense.

Case closed!

Mrs OBumble

Strumms wrote: »

My social media never contained a pic taken in the workplace, never mentioned where I worked and never commented on work or work issues. My thoughts about work end 100% when I clock out and don’t enter my head again until I clock back in. Work phone gets turned off on departure and isn’t reactivated until I arrive in the morning. You gotta look after yourself, put it this way, I found the hard way....

If you're in work and a customer comes in and recognises you as the guy who was parading around the square in a Nazi uniform last week, then your employer will be embarrassed.

Fair enough if customers or colleagues will never see you, but most real-world jobs aren't like that.

Theres one bit of context missing from this thread.

Where is the OP going?

North Italy? The city of Wuhan? A cruise around the med with lots of old couples?

Im going on holiday tomorrow. Work knows.

I'm going to Manchester, not exactly a virus hotspot.

fritzelly

Deleted User wrote: »

Theres one bit of context missing from this thread.

Where is the OP going?

North Italy? The city of Wuhan? A cruise around the med with lots of old couples?

Im going on holiday tomorrow. Work knows.

I'm going to Manchester, not exactly a virus hotspot.

Oops (when they say More Soon they mean loads more cases...)

https://twitter.com/MENnewsdesk/status/1234869473301102592?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1234869473301102592&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3Fp%3D112714127

Strumms

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you're in work and a customer comes in and recognises you as the guy who was parading around the square in a Nazi uniform last week, then your employer will be embarrassed.

Fair enough if customers or colleagues will never see you, but most real-world jobs aren't like that.

Somebody going on holiday and someone parading up and down as a murdering anti semite probably not that comparable.

Say I’m working for an international company, imports and exports, they are an American company and as such do no business with Cuba... I’ve always fancied going to Cuba, nothing political, just as a holiday... I head off, am updating my Facebook, Instagram. Pics of me and the other half, is it justified for someone in that position to be disciplined or fired ? Is it justified therefore going forward that my employer is insistent on being advised by each and every employee where they go for holiday, which political party they vote for ? Is it fûck... that dangerous, that’s like an ultra right wing.... not a principal that this state was founded on, far from the ideals of any freedom fighter, ‘freedom to express yourself without fear of reprisal, freedom to travel without fear of the same, free world, don’t hand your freedom back for a few shillings to big US evil conglomerates of greed, free world, do what you like and regulate the behavior of employers, to the letter.