Calf scour

Charolois 19

Evening all,

Just a quick question for people who will be a big more knowledgeable than me, I bought in a few suck calves, all coming for a month old, they have taken a bit of scour but are hydrated, no temperature, bright, I've never bought in calves before and just took a notion to try it, I've had the vet up and he gave them injections and left more for me to give over 3 days,
They drink well in the morning for me but evening the dont bother at all, so I'm wondering could it be nutritional scour? Been new too it I took the directions of the pack, its kirnans, their taking 380grms with 3 litres of water right now. Not knowing what system or feed they came from could that be too much for them?
Average weight I'd say be 65 to75 kg, should I try reducing to the younger age mixture ?
I could be wrong on this line of thought altogether just trying to rule out causes, the pens their in were all disinfected before they went in along with the feeders ect, clean bedding ect,
Any thoughts or ideas more than welcome

If its any addition, scour is yellow, no blood or mucus in it either

Mooooo

Did the vet test the dung? If not take a sample and do that. I think effydral is a great product a tablet in a litre of water. If one is out in a group I often make up a batch for that group and give it to the whole lot. When they first landed did you go straight in with milk? Some people buying in would give electrolytes as the first feed as along with the stress of moving they are also going from prob whole milk to milk replacer so it just helps them adjust. Make sure there is ventilation also without having a draft

theaceofspies

Charolois 19 wrote: »

Evening all,

Just a quick question for people who will be a big more knowledgeable than me, I bought in a few suck calves, all coming for a month old, they have taken a bit of scour but are hydrated, no temperature, bright, I've never bought in calves before and just took a notion to try it, I've had the vet up and he gave them injections and left more for me to give over 3 days,
They drink well in the morning for me but evening the dont bother at all, so I'm wondering could it be nutritional scour? Been new too it I took the directions of the pack, its kirnans, their taking 380grms with 3 litres of water right now. Not knowing what system or feed they came from could that be too much for them?
Average weight I'd say be 65 to75 kg, should I try reducing to the younger age mixture ?
I could be wrong on this line of thought altogether just trying to rule out causes, the pens their in were all disinfected before they went in along with the feeders ect, clean bedding ect,
Any thoughts or ideas more than welcome

If its any addition, scour is yellow, no blood or mucus in it either

Whatever it is get electrolytes into them as much as possible until you find out what is the cause. Scour and dehydration usually go hand in hand and the sachets can make the difference between a dead calf and a living one. The feeding buckets (and nipples) need to be sterilised or at least washed THOROUGHLY with boiling water every day. Good luck.

_Brian

We give natural yogurt mixed with Kaolin powder to anything with scour.

Charolois 19

Thanks for all the replys, no the dung wasnt tested, where would I send it too? The local vet lab? If I'm honest, I gave the replacer as the first feed, I left them settle 3 odd hours then fed about 8pm that eve, the pen is well ventilated with no draft and a lamp over them, they are all drinking water from the buckets, watched them all at it at some stage or another, the vet gave me sachets to give for 4 days, sulpha no2, feeders are been washed after every feed, altho not sterilised every feeding, boiling water on feeder, mixing buckets whisk ect, I'll pick up natural yogurt tommorow and try them with it, theres a learning curve with everything new, is there any issue of cross contamination to my in calf cows the far side of the yard I wonder ? Or any danger to them while still inside

Sugarbowl

Sulpha No 2 are good powders, covers a lot of bacteria including ecoli and salmonella. Like other posters said keep well hydrated with electrolytes. Natural yogurt is great for settling the stomach. I use a Greek style yogurt as it’s thicker and they take it back better than more runny style yogurt. You should start seeing an improvement now by tomorrow if they were treated today. It will take a few days to clear in any case.

patsy_mccabe

I make up own electrolyte using this recipe. I add maybe 3 desert spoons of natural yogurt to the mix. Sucklers here so seperate calf and every 8 hours or so I give 2 liters by stomach tube. If the calf is drinking the cow, I give the dose every second feed. Remember if scouring, calf is loosing fluids, so you have to give extra to account for these losses. So up to 6 litres, given 3 times a day.

http://animalhealthireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Recipe_for_Homemade_electrolytes.pdf

theaceofspies

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Sulpha No 2 are good powders, covers a lot of bacteria including ecoli and salmonella. Like other posters said keep well hydrated with electrolytes. Natural yogurt is great for settling the stomach. I use a Greek style yogurt as it’s thicker and they take it back better than more runny style yogurt. You should start seeing an improvement now by tomorrow if they were treated today. It will take a few days to clear in any case.

Yogurt is a big help as well.

Mooooo

Charolois 19 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replys, no the dung wasnt tested, where would I send it too? The local vet lab? If I'm honest, I gave the replacer as the first feed, I left them settle 3 odd hours then fed about 8pm that eve, the pen is well ventilated with no draft and a lamp over them, they are all drinking water from the buckets, watched them all at it at some stage or another, the vet gave me sachets to give for 4 days, sulpha no2, feeders are been washed after every feed, altho not sterilised every feeding, boiling water on feeder, mixing buckets whisk ect, I'll pick up natural yogurt tommorow and try them with it, theres a learning curve with everything new, is there any issue of cross contamination to my in calf cows the far side of the yard I wonder ? Or any danger to them while still inside

They were perhaps a bit overfed if the interval was only 3 hours so hopefully just that. The effydral I mentioned has bicarbonate in it which I give to anything at a sign of scour or not drinking. Is easy to prepare and Helps prevent any acidosis. Ideally give midday in between normal feeds. Vet should have them covered just make sure intakes recover and if they don't drink give electrolytes. Scour was explained to me as water leaving the bloodstream so keeping hydrated is key. Vet should advise well anyway

whelan2

Did you check their temperature? I also use the effydral tablets mixed in 1 litre of water.

_Brian

whelan2 wrote: »

Did you check their temperature? I also use the effydral tablets mixed in 1 litre of water.

They are great.. We use them with calves if they are very sick, if they are not too bad we use home made electrolytes.

Charolois 19

Morning all,
Fed there this morning at 6ish, all up bright and drinking well, I reduced the amount of milk and powder on that feed to see are they just getting too much ect, and still no sign of dehydration, they had no temperature last two days, been honest I didnt check this morning because I was trying to get out for work, but will check this eve to be sure,
Thanks for all the replays and advice, I suppose I'm over worrying a bit as it's all new to me but I rather be safe than sorry, and never had scour before in suckler calves thankfully

mahoney_j

With new calves in id put them in a cosy draft free shed and literally bury them in straw .first feed after comming in as soon as settled would be 3 litres of warm electrolytes .as for milk replacer always a preference for skim based as it curdles for longer in stomach unlike whey ,powder like shine oad or elivor .after that I’d cover all of them for pneumonia with bovipast after a few days

_Brian

Charolois 19 wrote: »

Morning all,
Fed there this morning at 6ish, all up bright and drinking well, I reduced the amount of milk and powder on that feed to see are they just getting too much ect, and still no sign of dehydration, they had no temperature last two days, been honest I didnt check this morning because I was trying to get out for work, but will check this eve to be sure,
Thanks for all the replays and advice, I suppose I'm over worrying a bit as it's all new to me but I rather be safe than sorry, and never had scour before in suckler calves thankfully

If your feeding the correct volume and mixing milk correctly there is no reason to restrict feed. Imagine your sick and someone decides to leave you hungry as well. All current advice is to keep feeding

patsy_mccabe

If they are scouring at all, they are loosing fluid from the body. They may not seem dehydrated, but they are getting there.

Sacrolyte

Well done. You seem on top of it. Just one thing on sampling. Don’t sample any that have already got antibiotics as you may get a false result.

Charolois 19

Just a quick update, just finished up here in the yard, they took there second feed of the day for the first time since arriving, all bright and intrested,picking at straw and giving the dog a serious looking over, no major interest in the hand feeding but imagine they dont know what it is yet fully, stools well tightened up (not completely tho) I didnt reduce this morning feed drastically, I just used 70gms less powder to the mix and the same this eve, could of been mixing a bit strong for them, I dont know, or maybe was stress ? But thankfully they seem on the turn

Pie Man

Rather than start a new thread I'll ask my question on this one.

Were giving our calves Cevazuril for the prevention of clinical coccidiosis. What's the minimum age you can give it to a calf? It only says on the box for the treatment of a group of animals of the same breed and same or similar age, but it says for pigs 3-5 days.
We give it to them at day 3, is this too early?

Thanks.

greysides

I doubt there's any point giving it before 3 weeks of age, due to the length of the incubation period.

_Brian

Calves have natural immunity from their mother that lasts about two weeks.

Would piglets have the same immunity?

We just give the vecoxan when they arrive in the yard and again in another two weeks.

whelan2

greysides wrote: »

I doubt there's any point giving it before 3 weeks of age, due to the length of the incubation period.

Our vet said the same. Waste of money before that

Dunedin

Pie Man wrote: »

Rather than start a new thread I'll ask my question on this one.

Were giving our calves Cevazuril for the prevention of clinical coccidiosis. What's the minimum age you can give it to a calf? It only says on the box for the treatment of a group of animals of the same breed and same or similar age, but it says for pigs 3-5 days.
We give it to them at day 3, is this too early?

Thanks.

I give the cevazuril at 3 weeks old.

visatorro

Are antibiotics any use for a scour at all? Hydration and feed and hope for the best!!

Lime Tree Farm

_Brian wrote: »

Calves have natural immunity from their mother that lasts about two weeks.

I don't think it's a question of immunity, coccidiosis is a parasite that the calves pick up from cow dung around outside feeders, and in sheds.

patsy_mccabe

From Animal Health Ireland;
I downloaded it a few years back but still relevant, I guess. Worth a read.



http://animalhealthireland.ie/ckfinder/userfiles/files/3_5_4%20Management%20of%20the%20Scouring%20Calf%20-%20low%20res.pdf

mahoney_j

visatorro wrote: »

Are antibiotics any use for a scour at all? Hydration and feed and hope for the best!!

If nutritional just hydration ,keep the feed in keep the straw in and drafts out .rota or crypto contact vet .if worried not nutritional take dung sample to vet to test

patsy_mccabe

mahoney_j wrote: »

If nutritional just hydration ,keep the feed in keep the straw in and drafts out .rota or crypto contact vet .if worried not nutritional take dung sample to vet to test

Can they test for everything? Never tested here.

mahoney_j

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Can they test for everything? Never tested here.

The important ones rota crypto salmonella if u have any of them sooner u find out the better so plan is put in place

greysides

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Can they test for everything? Never tested here.

To the best of my knowledge, farm-side tests are for neonatal scour- E.coli, Rota, Corona, Crypto.

Any others require lab testing.

_Brian

Lime Tree Farm wrote: »

I don't think it's a question of immunity, coccidiosis is a parasite that the calves pick up from cow dung around outside feeders, and in sheds.

I’m sure I read that calves have two weeks immunity from the cow.

Lime Tree Farm

Brian, I think that immunity is against Clostridial disease, 2 weeks for dairy calves and 2 months for calves on Suckler cows.

The following is taken from the AHI leaflet, the life cycle for the little coccidiosis buggers.

"Life cycle Coccidia Oocysts (similar to eggs) are excreted in the dung where, under suitable conditions of temperature, moisture and oxygen), they develop into sporulated oocysts, which are then capable of infecting cattle. Once ingested by a susceptible calf, the oocyst releases the sporozoites, which penetrate the cells lining the small or large intestine. Development continues in the gut wall through various stages until the coccidia mature and produce oocysts. A single ingested oocyst develops into thousands of new parasites, each of which destroys the epithelial cell in which it is growing, resulting in very rapid and severe damage to the gut. The pre-patent period (time between infection of the animal and the first appearance of oocysts in faeces) is typically about 21 days for E. bovis and E. zuernii, whilst it is shorter for E. alabamensis (8-12 days)."

https://online.flippingbook.com/view/372320/ It has a download icon if you want to save a copy

I see, after reading this leaflet, that the one we use diclazuril (Vecoxan) is administered at 14 days after exposure, and does not have a withdrawal period. We have been giving Vecoxan to calves at 18 to 21 days old if they are indoors, and the same if calves are outdoors when the cows are being fed from a ring feeder..