Renault Twingo ZE

https://cleantechnica.com/2020/02/29/renault-new-models-press-preview-the-world-upside-down/

22 Kwh battery and 20 Kw AC charging.

No idea on power but I wouldn't expect more than 60-75 Hp.

I'm not really impressed, surely a 22 Kwh battery can charge faster on DC these days, no thermal management from what I can see.

It's really just another 2009 EV but worse, it can only charge at 22 Kw......

22kw is plenty fast for a car intended as a family roundabout second car. It all depends on the purchase price. The lease prices on this will convince many to buy instead of a secondhand car. They only expect 25k sales a year.

unkel

22kW AC only charging is alright for a city car that will rarely be driven long distances. And the once or twice a year that you do, you'd have to stop and charge for the guts of an hour once or twice. That's acceptable

Also the article says there is room for double the battery capacity, so 44kWh. So a higher price version with double the capacity / range and presumably CCS fast charging might come later

If the base version can be sold for around €18k before taxes and incentives, we are onto a winner here

I was charging at 22kw at an Aldi on Thursday. I got a good bump of charge in the few minutes I was in shopping.

This is basically zoe engine and charger with a better but small battery.
3.6 metres. Small frontal area. Small turning radius and more flexible boot and folding passenger seat than zoe. Loads to like about this car

Seriously ? it's no way to address the needs for the majority of People who won't buy EV because of low range and poor recharge times, this is something that would have been acceptable in 2011 when Leaf 1 was released.

I doubt many people want a car with such restrictions today as back in 2011.

ted1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Seriously ? it's no way to address the needs for the majority of People who won't buy EV because of low range and poor recharge times, this is something that would have been acceptable in 2011 when Leaf 1 was released.

I doubt many people want a car with such restrictions today as back in 2011.

I’m sure many will want it, maybe not in Ireland but large European cities it’d be good , just like the original twingo, short journeys , small car park spaces

ted1

ted1 wrote: »

I’m sure many will want it, maybe not in Ireland but large European cities it’d be good , just like the original twingo, short journeys , small car park spaces

I don't know, EV sales are pathetic really compared to ICE sales and what's the main issue in Peoples minds ? range and recharge times along with infrastructure, now if this Twingo ZE could charge at 70 odd Kw I might say ok, it's liveable with but most people today still buy a car that goes anywhere any time when needed and this would only, in my opinion of course, this is no way to promote electric cars with technology that's less than that of 2009 or the end of 2011 when the Leaf went into production.

Nissan sold the Leaf with the spiel that "most people don't drive more than 50 kms a day"

In 2020 this is really bad in fairness.

ted1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't know, EV sales are pathetic really compared to ICE sales and what's the main issue in Peoples minds ? range and recharge times along with infrastructure, now if this Twingo ZE could charge at 70 odd Kw I might say ok, it's liveable with but most people today still buy a car that goes anywhere any time when needed and this would only, in my opinion of course, this is no way to promote electric cars with technology that's less than that of 2009 or the end of 2011 when the Leaf went into production.

Nissan sold the Leaf with the spiel that "most people don't drive more than 50 kms a day"

In 2020 this is really bad in fairness.

It’s only a 22 kWh battery. On a slow 7 KW charger it’s be done in 3 hours. These cars are just neighbourhood runabouts to the mercandano or carrefour. They are not drop the kids at school , take a spin to avoca for coffee then down to Dundrum for shopping.

The small battery makes them affordable and mass market. They fit a large niche

ted1

ted1 wrote: »

It’s only a 22 kWh battery. On a slow 7 KW charger it’s be done in 3 hours. These cars are just neighbourhood runabouts to the mercandano or carrefour. They are not drop the kids at school , take a spin to avoca for coffee then down to Dundrum for shopping.

The small battery makes them affordable and mass market. They fit a large niche

Niche is right, the numbers show though the majority of most people don't want a low range EV let alone one with slower charging than from 2011, as good as AC is and all and everyone knows I'm a big fan of AC but there is a need for faster DC charging when on a longer run.

70 Kw DC charging would have made a huge difference to this car.

Here is a video on it in German.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPTR3huuoCk

This is a 15,600 euro car in Germany after rebate.
I would expect that the dealers will be offering leases at around the 100 euro mark per month.
Who would run an older second car at those sort prices.
The supermarkets offer free charging and with 22kw charging a half hour visit to the supermarket and the car is half full.

I still think the retail price is expensive but as we all know EVs cost next to nothing to run once you take delivery

unkel

Brilliant. I've been saying for years that we need €15k EVs

Will it be sold here and what would the expected price be, presuming the margin on the car is the same and the price difference is only caused by local taxes / incentives?

No need to sell it in Ireland. It is a compliance car where they'll get enough sales to meet their CO2 requirement.

liamog

They've never really sold the Twingo in Ireland, I looked at beepbeep, only 4 Twingo's were sold between 2017 and now, I can see why you wouldn't bother bringing the EV version here.

cannco253

https://youtu.be/dJg748sh0zg

Battery Life - Renault Twingo ran out of juice on the Autobahn

Not something you would want to happen.

"I didn't think 11% SOC and 20kms to go meant an empty battery"

BMS not linear when charge drops below 10%, are there any other EVs that do this?

Not the experience observed in this German youtube video; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3e8XJDGvYlI

It didn't leave him stranded when he ran all the way down to 0%.

liamog

cannco253 wrote: »

BMS not linear when charge drops below 10%, are there any other EVs that do this?

Our Ioniq drops like a fly at low SoC, our Mini seems to stretch for a good while. Each manufacturer seems to act differently