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Questions regarding set up of heating/hot water

  • 28-02-2020 10:49pm
    #1
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 1,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭ MascotDec85


    Hi, I think I might know the answers to these questions but I'm really looking for confirmation if anyone can help.

    We've a 2 storey house built in 2012 approx 1400 sq ft with the ground floor being approx 950 sq ft. We're rural.

    We've a Dimplex horizontal air to water heat pump with ufh downstairs and smart rads up stairs (2) the type that blow air.

    The house is well insulated and is generally nice and cosy.

    The heating is set to call downstairs from around 6am til 10pm. The room stats are set to 19/20 deg and tbh they rarely ever kick in, though the floor feels warm, all stats are currently reading over 20 degrees.
    The setting for upstairs is for the rads to blow between 8pm and 1030pm and again in the morning from 6am and 730am. They do tend to come on in the winter months.

    Our hot water seems to be permanently on, we've always hot water.

    Looking at our ESB usage our night rate usage is only 25% of our day rate so our bills are quite high.

    Now to the questions:

    If our stats aren't calling for heat during the day, surely it's not costing :confused: but, should the ufh not be set up to heat during the night and let it out during the day?

    In terms of the hot water. Would it be better to change this to heating water at the night rate before morning and again for a couple of hours in the evening? Will having it on constantly cost more or is it designed only heat when the temperature drops?

    I'd appreciate any advice. The system was commissioned and set up they way it's operating currently. Thanks


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭ wexfordman2


    Hi, I think I might know the answers to these questions but I'm really looking for confirmation if anyone can help.

    We've a 2 storey house built in 2012 approx 1400 sq ft with the ground floor being approx 950 sq ft. We're rural.

    We've a Dimplex horizontal air to water heat pump with ufh downstairs and smart rads up stairs (2) the type that blow air.

    The house is well insulated and is generally nice and cosy.

    The heating is set to call downstairs from around 6am til 10pm. The room stats are set to 19/20 deg and tbh they rarely ever kick in, though the floor feels warm, all stats are currently reading over 20 degrees.
    The setting for upstairs is for the rads to blow between 8pm and 1030pm and again in the morning from 6am and 730am. They do tend to come on in the winter months.

    Our hot water seems to be permanently on, we've always hot water.

    Looking at our ESB usage our night rate usage is only 25% of our day rate so our bills are quite high.

    Now to the questions:

    If our stats aren't calling for heat during the day, surely it's not costing :confused: but, should the ufh not be set up to heat during the night and let it out during the day?

    In terms of the hot water. Would it be better to change this to heating water at the night rate before morning and again for a couple of hours in the evening? Will having it on constantly cost more or is it designed only heat when the temperature drops?

    I'd appreciate any advice. The system was commissioned and set up they way it's operating currently. Thanks

    On the hearing side of it, how would you heat the house at night time to account for the temperature you need the following day ?

    Sorry if I mis understand


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 1,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭ MascotDec85


    On the hearing side of it, how would you heat the house at night time to account for the temperature you need the following day ?

    Sorry if I mis understand

    This is part of what I’m asking, if the floor heats at night, using electricity on the night rate, would the build up be enough to dissipate during the day keeping the house warm?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,442 ✭✭✭ wexfordman2


    This is part of what I’m asking, if the floor heats at night, using electricity on the night rate, would the build up be enough to dissipate during the day keeping the house warm?

    Yeah, but my point was, let's say it does, then how do you manage it ?

    Say tomorrow is going to be a cold day, your house heats up tonight and say the hear lasts for the full day the next day.

    Now say tomorriw is a warm DayZ your house heats up needlessly tonight, and releases heat into a warm house the next day ?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 1,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭ MascotDec85


    Yeah, but my point was, let's say it does, then how do you manage it ?

    Say tomorrow is going to be a cold day, your house heats up tonight and say the hear lasts for the full day the next day.

    Now say tomorriw is a warm DayZ your house heats up needlessly tonight, and releases heat into a warm house the next day ?

    That’s a good point that I hadn’t considered. Cheers


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,364 ✭✭✭ rolion


    Very tough to give a straight reply as is due to personal feelings, equipment choice and life style preferences. My house is warm enough for most of us except wife that she feels cold most of the time,therefore the heat curve required changes from a minute to another or subject to when shes home or not.

    Basically,you need to know that the best way to keep house and occupants happy while conserving energy (electricity or gas) is to have it ON all the time and expect the needs for comfort demand as a radnom once off incident.

    Heat Generator
    Its well know that a boiler / heat pump setup at almost 40 degrees all the time is more efficient than runing low from 25ish and high to 60ish at random time.I'll atatch a diagram from Viessman showing how their top model Viessman 200 has the external probe and various profiles where proves my point.
    http://viessmanndirect.co.uk/files/8e57dbc7-8a10-4065-bcc6-a27700ee752a/weather_comp.pdf

    Sensors
    Sensors,timers and controls can be setup based on the room,based on the heating element, based on time or based on day of the week. I am using EvoHome where per zone level controls are very very intuitive and allows a very strict curvature on heat demand and heat needs and curent real times temperature on that particular zone.

    External factors
    Some of the boilers and i guess heat pumps have an external probe that checks the temperature on the outside and creates a smart curve profile corelated / linked with the situation inside the walls. No point to setup 25 degrees inside and create / demand a huge heating if outside is already at over the threshold required.

    Under Floor Heating / aka UFH
    It needs constant heat, how water running thorugh its piping.Not sure if you got the concept... is very long time required to warm-up a surface with UFH and slower to lose the heat. Assuming all the building / insulation /controls are at extreme precision. Based on my experience,with boiler at 40ish,the UFH sensor stays 24/7 at 35 degrees demand and EvoHome does all the mixing with an automated three ways mixing valve.


    Cant predict a proper pattern for your usage... a heat pump operates different than a gas boiler.


    For hot water, if needed,look at SEAI website portal and see if installing a good subsidied grant of 40 tubes and a 300l solar tubes with 2 coils makes sense finnancially and per your house demand.One coil for tubes,other for heat pump.Very handy for at least half of the 12 months.

    For heating is easy, as the HP will match the needs of radiators and UFH.
    Spend some time and search online segmenting zones,for heating. Have a look at EvoHome solution and see if that creates your needed schedule for heat demand and comfort.

    A quick link to a very well technical site where it explains the concept of dynamic heat demand,social profiling and equipment,along with various parameters:

    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12053-018-9632-x

    Good luck.


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