Fire Brigade Call out charge

Brock Turnpike

Hi All,

Just received a bill in the post for €500 for the fire brigade calling out to our property for a false alarm.

We're tenant's in a property which had Phonewatch installed. While cooking dinner recently, the smoke alarm was set off. We quickly cleared the smoke and the alarm stopped. Thought nothing of it until the FB turned up soon after. I explained the situation to them and that we had not received any call from Phinewatch to check if things were ok.

Should we be expected to pay the bill in this scenario? Surely Phonewatch should be covering the cost due to not contacting us?

Any advice welcomed!
Thanks!

ratracer

Firstly, my reply isn’t about the fire service charge, but the process getting the bill.

But, what is the arrangement between your landlord and Phone watch? Did phonewatch not check with you first if you had a fire? They won’t pay for any of the charge. Do they even have your number? Your landlord should have explained your house arrangements to you when you moved in.

As far as the fire brigade are concerned, the control room received a call and turned out the nearest brigade. Every call is treated as genuine until otherwise known.

Brock Turnpike

ratracer wrote: »

Firstly, my reply isn’t about the fire service charge, but the process getting the bill.

But, what is the arrangement between your landlord and Phone watch? Did phonewatch not check with you first if you had a fire? They won’t pay for any of the charge. Do they even have your number? Your landlord should have explained your house arrangements to you when you moved in.

As far as the fire brigade are concerned, the control room received a call and turned out the nearest brigade. Every call is treated as genuine until otherwise known.

Thanks for the reply.

Phonewatch was already installed when we moved in. Phonewatch should call us when an alarm goes off to check if it is genuine. We never received any such call from Phonewatch on this occasion (they have phoned us previously).

Brock Turnpike

ratracer wrote: »

Firstly, my reply isn’t about the fire service charge, but the process getting the bill.

But, what is the arrangement between your landlord and Phone watch? Did phonewatch not check with you first if you had a fire? They won’t pay for any of the charge. Do they even have your number? Your landlord should have explained your house arrangements to you when you moved in.

As far as the fire brigade are concerned, the control room received a call and turned out the nearest brigade. Every call is treated as genuine until otherwise known.

Thanks for the reply.

Phonewatch was already installed when we moved in. Phonewatch should call us when an alarm goes off to check if it is genuine. We never received any such call from Phonewatch on this occasion (they have phoned us previously).

I would imagine that phonewatch would be expecting that people would be too busy evacuating to answer the phone.

Have you checked if it's your responsibility to call them to cancel the alarm yourself? Just like cancelling the panic alarm?

Esel

Sound to me that the landlord should be liable, rather than the tenant.

Not an expert, though.

ratracer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I would imagine that phonewatch would be expecting that people would be too busy evacuating to answer the phone.

Have you checked if it's your responsibility to call them to cancel the alarm yourself? Just like cancelling the panic alarm?

Not always the case. I’ve been to plenty of jobs where Phonewatch have either told us they couldn’t contact the key holder, or that they had gotten hold of the key holder and confirmed fire brigade were not required.
I just don’t know how their SOP’s work, whether the customer can specify call to them before notifying ES.

errlloyd

Sorry to bump this. I set off the apartment block alarm today cooking. Same sort of deal, I knew it was no biggy but as far as I know that automatically calls out the fire department.

They came, I met them (embarrassed) let them into my apartment. They observed there was no fire and took my name. Should I expect to get billed? I didn't call them. And I didn't start a fire of any sort. But it was my fault...

Brock Turnpike

errlloyd wrote: »

Sorry to bump this. I set off the apartment block alarm today cooking. Same sort of deal, I knew it was no biggy but as far as I know that automatically calls out the fire department.

They came, I met them (embarrassed) let them into my apartment. They observed there was no fire and took my name. Should I expect to get billed? I didn't call them. And I didn't start a fire of any sort. But it was my fault...

OP here. Expect a bill.

Penfailed

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

OP here. Expect a bill.

Just to jump on the back of this, how is the cost worked out? Is it more for nights or weekends? How long after the call out does the bill come in?

linpoo

In a fire safety course I did before for work we were told its the person that calls them that is responsible for paying.

Penfailed

linpoo wrote: »

In a fire safety course I did before for work we were told its the person that calls them that is responsible for paying.

I've been told that it's the person whose property is 'rescued' or 'saved' gets the bill.

Brock Turnpike

Penfailed wrote: »

Just to jump on the back of this, how is the cost worked out? Is it more for nights or weekends? How long after the call out does the bill come in?

No idea how it's worked out. We got the bill within a couple of weeks if the call out.

FluffPiece

linpoo wrote: »

In a fire safety course I did before for work we were told its the person that calls them that is responsible for paying.

Your company should get it's money back in that case as the instructor was full of ****.

The person who benefits from the service is charged, ie property owner.

If a tenant is in the property and their details are taken, the tenant will get the bill. If the tenant doesn't provide details or refuses to engage, the local authority will investigate who owns the property and invoice them.

The fire service is charged a higher rate at evenings and weekends. If it's not a capped charge such as a chimney fire or RTA then it's charged based on number of crew members that attended the scene.

FluffPiece

Meant to add, when you get your bill, contact them on the number provided and speak to them about installment plans. If you suggest a reasonable amount and set up a standing order, they should be fine with that.

errlloyd

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

OP here. Expect a bill.

Right, damn that's super annoying but I guess someone has to pay. How long did it take, and I don't suppose you got out of it.

Feel sort of frustrated. That I'm on the hook for 500e when if I'd had any say in the matter they'd never have come.

Sultan of Bling

FluffPiece wrote:

Your company should get it's money back in that case as the instructor was full of ****.

Absolutely.

If you see a burning building and people trapped inside call the fire brigade. You won't be billed.

FluffPiece

errlloyd wrote: »

Right, damn that's super annoying but I guess someone has to pay. How long did it take, and I don't suppose you got out of it.

Feel sort of frustrated. That I'm on the hook for 500e when if I'd had any say in the matter they'd never have come.

As you said, someone has to pay it. The fire service operate on a mostly retained fire fighter basis so the lads get a call and go to the station, get ready and out on the truck to the call as quickly as they can.

A service is provided albeit not required in this case. The invoice shouldn't be 500 unless you had 2 units and about 10 lads show up.

Call the LA after you receive the bill and enquire about getting a reduced rate. Even try to get them to drop the admin rate from it entirely as no further services were required except to confirm no fire.

ratracer

linpoo wrote: »

In a fire safety course I did before for work we were told its the person that calls them that is responsible for paying.

Whoever told you this has no clue what they were talking about.

Aravo

FluffPiece wrote: »

Call the LA after you receive the bill and enquire about getting a reduced rate. Even try to get them to drop the admin rate from it entirely as no further services were required except to confirm no fire.

+1

listermint

FluffPiece wrote: »

As you said, someone has to pay it. The fire service operate on a mostly retained fire fighter basis so the lads get a call and go to the station, get ready and out on the truck to the call as quickly as they can.

A service is provided albeit not required in this case. The invoice shouldn't be 500 unless you had 2 units and about 10 lads show up.

Call the LA after you receive the bill and enquire about getting a reduced rate. Even try to get them to drop the admin rate from it entirely as no further services were required except to confirm no fire.

Unlikely to be anything less than 2 for an apartment block.

FluffPiece

listermint wrote: »

Unlikely to be anything less than 2 for an apartment block.

He might have gotten lucky that the first unit called the second one en route and had it stood down. He will usually only be billed for the ones who showed on the scene.

errlloyd

FluffPiece wrote: »

A service is provided albeit not required in this case. The invoice shouldn't be 500 unless you had 2 units and about 10 lads show up

It didn't even occur to me that more units would cost more. There might well have been ten lads.

Primarily I'm embarrassed they all had to gear up and come in.

Sierra Oscar

Do you have house insurance? I know my insurer covers up to €1,500 of the callout charge cost.

Did you not call them to cancel the attendance? Nothing worse than going to an alarm that the person knows was accidental but they never bothered cancelling.

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did you not call them to cancel the attendance? Nothing worse than going to an alarm that the person knows was accidental but they never bothered cancelling.

Did you read the OP? They didn't know that they were coming.

errlloyd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did you not call them to cancel the attendance? Nothing worse than going to an alarm that the person knows was accidental but they never bothered cancelling.

To be fair penfailed (poster above this cause I can't multiquote) he is asking me (not the op)

I did think to call them, but AFAIK (from previous call outs) they have to come to the building investigate and reset the alarm. It's a large unserviced block. I don't think anyone else can turn off the alarm.

I'll also admit I was pretty panicked and I wasn't thinking straight at the time. You're clearly correct I clearly should have done that.

In future do I just dial 112, say fire and say that the reported fire at my address is just cooking? They send someone in a car instead of a full unit?

Penfailed

errlloyd wrote: »

To be fair penfailed (poster above this cause I can't multiquote) he is asking me (not the op)

Ah! Sorry for the misunderstanding.

FluffPiece

errlloyd wrote: »

T
In future do I just dial 112, say fire and say that the reported fire at my address is just cooking? They send someone in a car instead of a full unit?

The closest unit will most likely still attend but the additional units may be stood down

mbradso2003

errlloyd wrote: »

Sorry to bump this. I set off the apartment block alarm today cooking. Same sort of deal, I knew it was no biggy but as far as I know that automatically calls out the fire department.

They came, I met them (embarrassed) let them into my apartment. They observed there was no fire and took my name. Should I expect to get billed? I didn't call them. And I didn't start a fire of any sort. But it was my fault...

Sorry to ask question off subject, is your apartment part of simon's ridge? I seen 5 fire engines 2 weeks ago and 1 engine earlier this week.

errlloyd

mbradso2003 wrote: »

Sorry to ask question off subject, is your apartment part of simon's ridge? I seen 5 fire engines 2 weeks ago and 1 engine earlier this week.

Nope. Hope all was good there

Akron

linpoo wrote: »

In a fire safety course I did before for work we were told its the person that calls them that is responsible for paying.

This is absolutely incorrect. I’d question who does your training...

ED E

I'd be of the opinion that they should chase Sector Alarm (phonewatch) for the charge, they're the ones who initiated an unnecessary call out. If they then want to chase the landlord that's up to them to work out.

Wesser

Totally wrong that anyone should be billed for calling a fire brigade.
We already pay for it through tax

Penfailed

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Do you have house insurance? I know my insurer covers up to €1,500 of the callout charge cost.

What's the process? Pay up and then make the insurance claim?

FluffPiece

Penfailed wrote: »

What's the process? Pay up and then make the insurance claim?

Depends on your insurer. Most just ask you to forward any invoices on to them and they pay it directly to the local authority.

FluffPiece

ED E wrote: »

I'd be of the opinion that they should chase Sector Alarm (phonewatch) for the charge, they're the ones who initiated an unnecessary call out. If they then want to chase the landlord that's up to them to work out.

Phone watch make the call on behalf of their client, not the fire service's behalf. If the client wants to pursue phone watch for unnecessary calls, that's up to them. It's not something the local authority should be wasting time and resources on.

errlloyd

Penfailed wrote: »

What's the process? Pay up and then make the insurance claim?

My landlords insurance only covered it in the event there was actual fire damage being claimed for.

Didn't cover a false alarm charge.

Sierra Oscar

errlloyd wrote: »

My landlords insurance only covered it in the event there was actual fire damage being claimed for.

Didn't cover a false alarm charge.

That's a right pain in the arse.

I've found that most insurance companies are fairly OK with covering them so long as it wasn't a vexatious call or the likes. I mean it makes sense, insurance companies want people to contact the fire brigade in a timely manner. Cheaper to pay a callout charge than paying a claim for a burnt down building.

Lenar3556

Strictly the liability here is likely to rest between the owners management company and the fire service. Automatic call out of fire brigade for an alarm activation without confirmation or some form of alarm filtration is uncommon in apartment blocks and it’s suitability in the first instance would be open to question.

Secondly, cooking / smoke within an apartment shouldn’t give rise to a false activation of the block alarm system. To comply with the relevant standards there should be no smoke detection within the apartment connected to the landlord system. So there may be a secondary issue in terms of the fitness for purpose of the fire detection and alarm system.

I wouldn’t be too quick to be parting with money for a fire brigade callout in such circumstances.