Steinhart Watches - whats the problem?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I started this question on the for sale thread which really is not the place for it, its something I have been wondering for a while. I have owned Steinharts before and sold them.

But what I notice is there is something weird about them. People will pay close to new prices for second hand watches, often saving amounts of money that seem below the hassle or risk,of a second hand purchase, when the new one will be delivered to you in a few days. There is no scarcity. Collectors hold them for a while and then sell them. I have known nobody to hold onto one in their collection. Its an odd paradox.

So what is it that makes these watches so popular on one hand but then fail to hold buyers admiration in the long term? I have my own thoughts but I would prefer to hear others peoples.

banie01

Should be quite an interesting topic!

I've yet to own a Steinhart, but there are a few that really do catch me eye.
Their Ocean 1 Coke GMT and the Ocean vintage are lovely pieces IMO.

They make a good product, with good movement and offer a nice service.

That said, 2nd hand pricing for what they are always strikes me as a little high.
The majority of their popular models, I'd probably be happy enough with a Parnis with a sterile or custom dial at a quarter of the price...

Will likely be hung for that comment, but a lot of their watches are uber-homage and be it Germany or China if I'm buying for the similarity to a grail?
Particularly their Yacht master style bits.

I'd rather save my bobs.

blue5000

I think ppl get good value when they buy new, that's probably why they hold their value.

Ppl can't try them on before they buy online, so if you have small wrists the long lugs put ppl off so they flip them pretty quickly after buyinng them.

Then there's the whole copycat debate.

I have an ocean one diver mk I, it's a keeper but the OH wears it all the time, she loves it.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

blue5000 wrote: »

I think ppl get good value when they buy new, that's probably why they hold their value.

I would have thought the opposite, the ready availability, quick delivery and good value new would stop people overpaying on the used market...but this is not so???

banie01

Meredith Whispering Footwear wrote: »

I would have thought the opposite, the ready availability, quick delivery and good value new would stop people overpaying on the used market...but this is not so???

This would be why I feel the 2nd hand pricing is on the high side too.

The new and warrantied versions are available without the hassle of adverts/donedeal tyre kickers.

blue5000

Meredith Whispering Footwear wrote: »

I would have thought the opposite, the ready availability, quick delivery and good value new would stop people overpaying on the used market...but this is not so???

For anything else Swiss made, ETA movement and sapphire crystal you'd be in €1000 territory pretty quick, I think anyway.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

blue5000 wrote: »

For anything else Swiss made, ETA movement and sapphire crystal you'd be in €1000 territory pretty quick, I think anyway.

I agree good value watches. But thats my point why would you buy one second hand when you could spend 10% more (45-50 euro in the latest adverts case) and get it new, delivered to your door in 2 days? They are not following classical supply and demand,

blue5000

Meredith Whispering Footwear wrote: »

I agree good value watches. But thats my point why would you buy one second hand when you could spend 10% more (45-50 euro in the latest adverts case) and get it new, delivered to your door in 2 days? They are not following classical supply and demand,

I would question that too TBH, I think there was only €20 of a difference between retail for a new one and the asking price of the one I think you are talking about. If one could get one through the states it would be even better value!

350 would have been lots for what is, let's face it, a used watch.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

blue5000 wrote: »

I would question that too TBH, I think there was only €20 of a difference between retail for a new one and the asking price of the one I think you are talking about. If one could get one through the states it would be even better value!

350 would have been lots for what is, let's face it, a used watch.

I sold a Ocean One Vintage Red about 2 years ago for 225 euro, bought it for about 275 euro, it was new to the chap I bought it off.

micks_address

My vintage gmt was 500 and I sold for 300. I possibly could have gotten 350 if I held out. I don't agree they hold their value... Yes if you buy second hand you might sell for more or less the same but not from new.

They are quality watches but I do prefer something with a bit more heritage. For instance my current Seiko I bought for around 500 secondhand..pretty similar to price of my steinhart.

I prefer the Seiko

young tiger called




young tiger called

sparrowcar

I'm not sure the figures are accurate here about €30-€40 between 2nd hand and new.

An Ocean 1 is €410 new including shipping.
Most 2nd hand ones sell for €280-€320 including OVM's etc.

The 39mm is on sale for what I think is too high an asking so it is an outlier in general terms.

Many people are spooked by buying online so when an opportunity arises to try on a quality watch in person it is to good to turn down. When most have very little wear and feel great on the wrist they generally sell there and then.

Seiko's are very common and most civies wouldn't know the difference between a €80 seiko and a €400 padi diver. Steinhart's offer a bit that unknown premium, head turners if you will.

unkel

At about €400 new, they are superb value for money (swiss, ETA movement, high build quality, sapphire crystal, etc.). They are also a watch persons watch. When you buy one new, you won't lose a lot of money on it (€150 tops). And when you buy second hand, and you buy well, you are likely to not lose any money on it at all. So a free watch really.

oxocube

Just bought an Ocean Vintage GMT. I sold this exact watch around 2 years ago and I had a bit of sellers remorse. Sold my Ocean one 42mm before Christmas to buy this exact watch from another member on here and just missed out on getting that one.

Steinhart are a quality watch for the price point. Hold their value when its time to move on and I'd sell all of them when I get an Explorer II!

And thats the problem

2shea

Sold my Ocean one 39mm yesterday for €380.

It was only 2 months old and like new (genuinely). So the chap I sold it to got a nice saving. Otherwise he would have paid about €450 shipped.

I would have kept it only I really want to narrow down my collection to 3 high end pieces and 3 or 4 sub €500 pieces.

In my opinion the Ocean one 39mm is a much better piece then anything Seiko or Citizen have at that price point. It's just that I'm a Japanese watch fan and I'm willing to put up with the slightly lesser quality bracelets (no screws) as I have sentimental attachments to the ones in my collection.

oxocube

2shea wrote: »

In my opinion the Ocean one 39mm is a much better piece then anything Seiko or Citizen have at that price point. It's just that I'm a Japanese watch fan and I'm willing to put up with the slightly lesser quality bracelets (no screws) as I have sentimental attachments to the ones in my collection.

I second this. I've an SKX011J1 and this watch is £276.67 on Amazon. The strapcode jubilee bracelet is another £57.77. This is for a non-hacking, 200m dive watch.

You can buy a Steinhart for cheaper, with a better depth rating and a better movement for less than cost of the equilivent Seiko.

I agree on the Seiko comment. They have too many €400 watches with mineral crystal, hollow end-links, basic (Casio level) bracelets etc.

I wouldn't put Citizen in the same basket. By the time you get to €300 or €400 they are putting sapphire on most things, solid end-links, machined clasps etc. Really nice construction for the price. Mostly eco-drive of course so many watch enthusiasts would have little interest. But just in terms of construction at a given price level I would put them above Seiko personally.

2shea

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree on the Seiko comment. They have too many €400 watches with mineral crystal, hollow end-links, basic (Casio level) bracelets etc.

I wouldn't put Citizen in the same basket. By the time you get to €300 or €400 they are putting sapphire on most things, solid end-links, machined clasps etc. Really nice construction for the price. Mostly eco-drive of course so many watch enthusiasts would have little interest. But just in terms of construction at a given price level I would put them above Seiko personally.

Best grab and go watch I have is a Citizen Ecodrive Titanium. Always ready to go. No winding or resetting. Everyone needs one in the collection if you ask me

btkm8unsl0w5r4

2shea wrote: »

Best grab and go watch I have is a Citizen Ecodrive Titanium. Always ready to go. No winding or resetting. Everyone needs one in the collection if you ask me

I have an ecodrive watch, a very interesting technology.

2shea

Meredith Whispering Footwear wrote: »

I have an ecodrive watch, a very interesting technology.

It really is, I dont think Ecodrive or the Seiko kinetic get the attention they should just because they are quartz technologies.

Seiko spring drive is just a fancy quartz and that's gets all the attention

2shea

https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/diver-watch/ocean-one-39-green-ceramic.html


Oh no. I might end up buying another one. This looks very cool.

banie01

2shea wrote: »

https://www.steinhartwatches.de/en/diver-watch/ocean-one-39-green-ceramic.html


Oh no. I might end up buying another one. This looks very cool.

It really does.
Good thing they don't do a GMT of that, or I'd be out a few quid too

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Thats "kermit" stienhart is too close for me

banie01

Meredith Whispering Footwear wrote: »

Thats "kermit" stienhart is too close for me

Would you believe that at 1st look and because my screen was dimmed, I thought it was a Hulk copy rather than a Kermit :pac:

Not a bad homage at all tho.

2shea

Meredith Whispering Footwear wrote: »

Thats "kermit" stienhart is too close for me

To close to being a full on rip off? But it's genuinely a nice design and colour way. Actually nicer then the Rolex die to the non maxi case.

But yaesit's pretty blatant!

oxocube

Look at this one...

banie01

oxocube wrote: »

Look at this one...

At least it's not got Merc hands
But...
I think I'd prefer it if it did :P

DuckSlice

banie01 wrote: »

It really does.
Good thing they don't do a GMT of that, or I'd be out a few quid too

At the risk of sounding stupid, what do you mean by a GMT of that?

blindsider

If you ignore the waffle in this article, it gives a reasonable overview:

https://www.watchtime.com/featured/double-time-eight-gmt-watches-for-travelers-at-work-and-play/

Basically, an extra hour hand is present on the dial, allowing you to set another time zone.

Realistically, not many people need this feature, but not many need a 'Dive watch' or a Pilot's watch' either, but they are in constant demand.

banie01

etxp wrote: »

At the risk of sounding stupid, what do you mean by a GMT of that?

Blindsider gives a good explanation below

blindsider wrote: »

Basically, an extra hour hand is present on the dial, allowing you to set another time zone.

Realistically, not many people need this feature, but not many need a 'Dive watch' or a Pilot's watch' either, but they are in constant demand.

Agree with you that not many people need it.
Got into the habit of a GMT/2nd Timezone on my watch when working with overseas based teams.
Have zero actual need for one anymore, but its the one complication that I always tend to find myself making at least occasional use of.

Have a lovely flyback chrono, that is beautiful to look at and lovely to wear!
It really is my favourite watch, but the complication is very rarely used.

With my GMT I tend to set the 2nd zone to either NY or HK and carry on like I'm still important somewhere :P

unkel

I've had watches with a GMT hand but for me it always felt completely redundant. How hard is it to deduct 5 hours from your local time when you are dealing with people in New York?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

unkel wrote: »

I've had watches with a GMT hand but for me it always felt completely redundant. How hard is it to deduct 5 hours from your local time when you are dealing with people in New York?

Careful now....if you start applying logic and practicality...the mechanical watch soon becomes a total waste of time :D:D:D

banie01

unkel wrote: »

I've had watches with a GMT hand but for me it always felt completely redundant. How hard is it to deduct 5 hours from your local time when you are dealing with people in New York?

Be off with you!
Spouting common sense in here...
There's no place for it I tell ya!

Time for torches and pitchforks! :pac:

blue5000

Did anyone notice that you can't buy replacement bezels from Steinhart website anymore? Noticed it on WUS a few weeks back.

micks_address

banie01 wrote: »

Be off with you!
Spouting common sense in here...
There's no place for it I tell ya!

Time for torches and pitchforks! :pac:

I find gmt handy as I work with a US based company. I can tell without thinking what time it is there by just looking at the watch.. handy for travel to when I'm there dont have to do the sums half asleep from jet lag

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I always find with a GMT because its 24hour clock that I end up having to think about it a good bit, far more than say taking 5 hours off the regular time. Oh look the GMT hand is between 16 and 18...thats 17 which is five in the afterooon...maybe I am just a bit simple.