New batch of EVs.

tom_tarbucket

I have a rough idea of the electric cars on the road at moment, Leaf, Zoe, ioniq, Kona, e Niro, e soul, e golf etc etc


In the coming months or year, who else will be coming to the IRISH market and what kw battery?

Think I seen something about Peugeot

Gumbo

kWh battery ....

Sabre Man

Here's an overview of what's available right now or soon in Ireland.

tom_tarbucket

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

I have a rough idea of the electric cars on the road at moment, Leaf, Zoe, ioniq, Kona, e Niro, e soul, e golf etc etc


In the coming months or year, who else will be coming to the IRISH market and what kw battery?

Think I seen something about Peugeot

Are you thinking of buying ?

The Peugeot will be decent but the Kona, E-soul 64 Kwh would be better in my opinion and faster, the Peugeot will be slow with only 130 Hp to haul a heavy car. The Kona and E-Soul have 205 Hp.

The VW ID.3 will be a purpose built EV and not an EV conversion, Rear wheel drive makes a huge difference to grip in an EV, wheel spin is a big problem in damp and wet conditions. Surprisingly only 170 HP but supposed to be fast 7. something seconds 0-100. Probably lighter than the Kona/esoul. Not cheap and it's going to be pretty small. Probably polo size ?

Current dedicated affordable electrics in a dedicated EV platform is just the BMW i3. Not including Tesla in this as I don't deem any of them affordable to the masses. Soon there will be the ID.3

Hyundai claim they will be moving to a dedicated EV platform for 2021 and the real massive difference will be their claim of moving to 800 Volts, this should have a massive impact at fast chargers and should allow 150 Kw charging and more, at 150 Kw you could replace 60 Kwh in 25 mins provided there's no silly power reduction at 50% or something like that.

Most likely this new platform will be a Small SUV but something larger than the kona. I think it will have a very high price tag but we'll see, probably north of 40K after grants.

Hyundai are probably the one to watch in the next 1 - 2 years.

tom_tarbucket

Thanks, I have heard a lot of talk about the ID.3 for a long time.

Is it delayed or what?
And what makes it better than others.

tom_tarbucket

tom_tarbucket wrote: »

Thanks, I have heard a lot of talk about the ID.3 for a long time.

Is it delayed or what?
And what makes it better than others.

Yes it's delayed due to software but VW are still building the cars hoping they will soon have a software fix, as of today I'm not sure if they already addressed the issue.

The ID.3 will have a higher quality interior.

It's also build on a dedicated EV platform and not another ICE conversion like the Kona, Esoul, Leaf, E-Niro, E-Golf, Zoe, Ioniq etc.

Rear wheel drive will make a notable difference when you hammer the throttle as there will be more grip, this is more noticeable when you want to pull out at a junction hard, or a roundabout and the roads are damp and wet, in the Kona and Leaf 40 Kwh this wheel spin is ridiculous. Not so much in the E-soul but I did feel that had less power than the Kona or perhaps they tuned it differently to prevent so much wheel spin.

The ID.3 will have the option to charge at up to 110 Kw, the first batch of the cars will charge at up to 100 Kw, the first edition, I stand to be corrected on this but after this first batch of first editions the ID.3 will have a much more basic spec, for instance less power and only 50 Kw charging and more power and faster charging will be options.

The Id.3 will also have your usual VW options, the Korean cars is one trim and there are not really any options.

The Nissan leaf is looking like the dinosaur of the lot and still offers no form of cooling or heating for the battery and even though they call it the Gen II Leaf it really is anything but a Gen II Leaf. Even the 60 Kwh Leaf will have no battery heating or cooling. At most the current leaf is just a facelift.

zg3409

Newer Zoe coming very soon. 52kWh battery with CCS charging and option 22kW on AC. Ideal 2nd car and ideal for long trips with CCS fast charging and quite fast charging on public slow chargers, and relatively cheap compared to others. Main downside is size

The radio ads say best selling EV in Europe but not in IRL

https://www.renault.ie/vehicles/new-vehicles/all-new-zoe.html

Zoe would be more than a 2nd car with 52 Kwh battery + 22 Kw ac 50 kw DC on CCS.

Very expensive if used as a 2nd car.

Zenith74

Deleted User wrote: »

The VW ID.3 will be a purpose built EV and not an EV conversion, Rear wheel drive makes a huge difference to grip in an EV, wheel spin is a big problem in damp and wet conditions. Surprisingly only 170 HP but supposed to be fast 7. something seconds 0-100. Probably lighter than the Kona/esoul. Not cheap and it's going to be pretty small. Probably polo size ?

The ID.3 is virtually identical in external dimensions and boot capacity to the Golf actually, and given it's a purpose built EV that should mean more useable space inside. It's a good bit bigger than the Polo.

Del2005

Deleted User wrote: »

Rear wheel drive will make a notable difference when you hammer the throttle as there will be more grip, this is more noticeable when you want to pull out at a junction hard, or a roundabout and the roads are damp and wet, in the Kona and Leaf 40 Kwh this wheel spin is ridiculous. Not so much in the E-soul but I did feel that had less power than the Kona or perhaps they tuned it differently to prevent so much wheel spin.

I'd say that it's more to do with the low rolling resistance tyres used to improve range than the cars themselves. Plenty of ICE cars put out more power than EVs and they don't have the issues with wheel spin. You either have grip or efficiency with tyres.

liamog

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes it's delayed due to software but VW are still building the cars hoping they will soon have a software fix, as of today I'm not sure if they already addressed the issue.

The ID.3 isn't delayed due to software issues, it's on track for deliveries in Summer '20. It mostly comes from Auto industry observers misunderstanding modern software delivery. VW have been consistent with the Summer '20 date since the pre-order event in Aug '19 when they reported mid 2020.

VW started series production in Nov '19, they were asked why the cars couldn't be immediately released and identified the reason as the software isn't ready. The software isn't ready because it doesn't need to be until the planned release.

According to info from various European events. The standard (not 1st editions) will be available with either a 110kW (148bhp) or 150kW (201bhp) motor. It's supposedly confirmed that the Pro (58kWh) has the option of the stronger motor (all 1st editions have this upgrade), there is speculation from some countries that the Pure (48kWh) may also have the option.

Head on over to the ID.3 thread if you have any questions.

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

I'd say that it's more to do with the low rolling resistance tyres used to improve range than the cars themselves. Plenty of ICE cars put out more power than EVs and they don't have the issues with wheel spin. You either have grip or efficiency with tyres.

There’s a lot of torque from standstill, I changed the tyres in my 2015 leaf and they were rated A for wet grip and while they were better than the stock tyres they didn’t eliminate the wheel spin and it only had 110 hp.

You just don’t have the same level of grip with fwd, the i3 for instance, the RWD makes a massive difference.

Lumen

Deleted User wrote: »

There’s a lot of torque from standstill, I changed the tyres in my 2015 leaf and they were rated A for wet grip and while they were better than the stock tyres they didn’t eliminate the wheel spin and it only had 110 hp.

You just don’t have the same level of grip with fwd, the i3 for instance, the RWD makes a massive difference.

There are petrol turbo FWD cars with over 300bhp that have no problem putting power down. It requires expensive diffs, good suspension geometry, excellent traction control and grippy tyres. So far none of the EV manufacturers have bothered, but it's not impossible.

MightyMunster

Wouldn't a petrol front wheel drive also have the weight of the engine sitting over the front wheels? Surely this would help as opposed to a BEV where the weight is more evenly distributed.
Have noticed wheel spin in the Ioniq and Kona when wet.

Lumen

MightyMunster wrote: »

Wouldn't a petrol front wheel drive also have the weight of the engine sitting over the front wheels? Surely this would help as opposed to a BEV where the weight is more evenly distributed.
Have noticed wheel spin in the Ioniq and Kona when wet.

That's a good point, although my 2.2 diesel can easily wheelspin despite a massive lump of an engine up front.

Of course if you have a sensitive right foot you can just drive around it, but I agree that all things being equal RWD or AWD is preferable except in snow. All things are usually not...

Kona cutaway:

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

There are petrol turbo FWD cars with over 300bhp that have no problem putting power down. It requires expensive diffs, good suspension geometry, excellent traction control and grippy tyres. So far none of the EV manufacturers have bothered, but it's not impossible.

Hp is one thing and torque is another, and when you have all of that torque almost instantly it does make a big difference.

Better traction helps diffs etc but no need if they simply go with RWD, no need to add more complexity.

The problem with the traction on the EV is that when you plant that throttle and the road is damp or wet then the wheels can spin at the exact same speed so the traction actually doesn't come on I sh1t you not. So yes improvements needed.

When I drove the Nissan Leaf 40 Kwh and hit the throttle going up a hill both wheels spun and it was like I was driving on black ice. Tyres were probably not perfect for sure.

However, RWD is just a better way of doing it and it doesn't have to be more expensive because you can install the motor at the rear much more easily than in an ICE car. It just takes the car manufacturers to start thinking EV and not keep making ICE conversions.

RWD makes a big difference on the i3 as I said and it's got narrow tyres.

They do limit torque though on most electrics until a certain Km/hr but sometimes it's not enough.

mickdw

Deleted User wrote: »

Hp is one thing and torque is another, and when you have all of that torque almost instantly it does make a big difference.

Better traction helps diffs etc but no need if they simply go with RWD, no need to add more complexity.

The problem with the traction on the EV is that when you plant that throttle and the road is damp or wet then the wheels can spin at the exact same speed so the traction actually doesn't come on I sh1t you not. So yes improvements needed.

When I drove the Nissan Leaf 40 Kwh and hit the throttle going up a hill both wheels spun and it was like I was driving on black ice. Tyres were probably not perfect for sure.

However, RWD is just a better way of doing it and it doesn't have to be more expensive because you can install the motor at the rear much more easily than in an ICE car. It just takes the car manufacturers to start thinking EV and not keep making ICE conversions.

RWD makes a big difference on the i3 as I said and it's got narrow tyres.

They do limit torque though on most electrics until a certain Km/hr but sometimes it's not enough.

If you are talking huge torque of EV and sticking that on the rear wheels with little in the way of traction control, your average driver will be spinning out at the first wet roundabout they meet.

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

If you are talking huge torque of EV and sticking that on the rear wheels with little in the way of traction control, your average driver will be spinning out at the first wet roundabout they meet.

Obviously there is some form of traction control + torque limiting at 0 rpm via software but the fact remains it's much better to push the car than drag it.

mickdw

Yes better traction with the rear drive but all the arguments so far in the thread is that mad wheelspin is a thing with EV so why not have the same system with the front drive EV to stop this?

I know like for like there will be better grip with the rear drive but it wont be such that it would completely do away with wheelspin and any wheelspin that does happen will be more dangerous to the average EV driver.

The idea of 2 driven wheels spinning at the same speed resulting in the traction control not cutting in is nuts. Surely the undriven wheels are monitored for speed.

mickdw

mickdw wrote: »

Yes better traction with the rear drive but all the arguments so far in the thread is that mad wheelspin is a thing with EV so why not have the same system with the front drive EV to stop this?

I know like for like there will be better grip with the rear drive but it wont be such that it would completely do away with wheelspin and any wheelspin that does happen will be more dangerous to the average EV driver.

The idea of 2 driven wheels spinning at the same speed resulting in the traction control not cutting in is nuts. Surely the undriven wheels are monitored for speed.

The RWD in the i3 doesn't eliminate wheel spin but it makes a massive difference.

There's no need for manufacturers to have any complex systems to deal with traction, it's easy to put the motor at the rear axle and limit torque via software at take off, it's much easier to have a leccy motor at the rear than an engine and gearbox, although BMW managed to do this with the i3 even if the Engine is small.