Premier Square Finglas Offer

Rainmann

Hi Guys,

I have an offer on this place - https://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-sale/finglas/apartment-173-premier-square-finglas-dublin-2355965/

At first, I was a bit cautious because of the Finglas reputation (in parts) but at a closer glance the area seems grand and it's reasonably close to town which is key for me. It is probably not the perfect investment property and I wouldn't be expecting to make very much money off it in a few years, it's more a store of value that I'd be hoping for. I have a couple of concerns that people may be able to help with.

1. If a downturn comes, I suspect this area will be much less desirable if people can then afford the likes of Glasnevin and Phibsboro, this could result in a decent price drop, would this be a correct assumption?

2. I have only been to the property twice. Is anyone familiar with the building/ area that could give some insight into what to expect? From my perspective, the buildings seemed quiet enough and there are well-connected bus routes which would suit me well.

Thanks!!

Jet Black

I'd say it's very quiet, probably a lot of rentals. It's out of the way from the worst parts of Finglas anyway. Only thing I know about it is I was passing by last year and there was about 20-30 people queuing to view 1 property. I'd check with the neighbours and take a visit on a Saturday night to see how quiet it really is. Finglas is an excellent location, 10 minutes to town, phoenix park, airport, blanch. I live up the wild west. Just a pity about the few that ruin it.

lastusername

Rainmann wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I have an offer on this place - https://www.daft.ie/dublin/apartments-for-sale/finglas/apartment-173-premier-square-finglas-dublin-2355965/

At first, I was a bit cautious because of the Finglas reputation (in parts) but at a closer glance the area seems grand and it's reasonably close to town which is key for me. It is probably not the perfect investment property and I wouldn't be expecting to make very much money off it in a few years, it's more a store of value that I'd be hoping for. I have a couple of concerns that people may be able to help with.

1. If a downturn comes, I suspect this area will be much less desirable if people can then afford the likes of Glasnevin and Phibsboro, this could result in a decent price drop, would this be a correct assumption?

2. I have only been to the property twice. Is anyone familiar with the building/ area that could give some insight into what to expect? From my perspective, the buildings seemed quiet enough and there are well-connected bus routes which would suit me well.

Thanks!!

I'd imagine it's totally fine, it's more towards the Glasnevin end too and very well-connected to town - I'd say it's mainly renting professionals and people working in town living there. Why not ask some of the tenants and owners over there when you see them in the car park / in the complex?

If a downturn comes, I suspect this area will be much less desirable if people can then afford the likes of Glasnevin and Phibsboro, this could result in a decent price drop, would this be a correct assumption?

If there's a downturn, then prices should drop in both areas, so it's all relative, right. Those who might not have been previously able to afford Glasnevin and Phibsborough might be able to in a downturn, but then again there could be job cuts too, the banks might tighten up on lending, etc.



Recessions and booms come and go, it's really about where you are right now and what you think is good value, and what you can afford of course. If you like the area and it seems like a nice spot, then that's what matters.

Rainmann

Thank you - I might take your advice and pop up tomorrow night to scope it out haha. I am pretty sure it's a lot of rentals and a quiet enough spot.

Jet Black wrote: »

I'd say it's very quiet, probably a lot of rentals. It's out of the way from the worst parts of Finglas anyway. Only thing I know about it is I was passing by last year and there was about 20-30 people queuing to view 1 property. I'd check with the neighbours and take a visit on a Saturday night to see how quiet it really is. Finglas is an excellent location, 10 minutes to town, phoenix park, airport, blanch. I live up the wild west. Just a pity about the few that ruin it.

Rainmann

Appreciate it. I think I will go up there to ask a few locals. The downturn stuff makes sense as well. I guess with it being connected to the town, it should rent fairly easily in all climates.

lastusername wrote: »

I'd imagine it's totally fine, it's more towards the Glasnevin end too and very well-connected to town - I'd say it's mainly renting professionals and people working in town living there. Why not ask some of the tenants and owners over there when you see them in the car park / in the complex?





If there's a downturn, then prices should drop in both areas, so it's all relative, right. Those who might not have been previously able to afford Glasnevin and Phibsborough might be able to in a downturn, but then again there could be job cuts too, the banks might tighten up on lending, etc.



Recessions and booms come and go, it's really about where you are right now and what you think is good value, and what you can afford of course. If you like the area and it seems like a nice spot, then that's what matters.

Princess Calla

Know someone living there about 10 years at this stage.

The only issue I've ever heard is someone setting the fire alarm off at night resulting in evacuation and broken sleep.

Never heard any trouble with locals, and tbh I'd class it more glasnevin than Finglas... Glasnevin cemetery is very close.

They would lead a quiet enough life, last bus home type of thing, so no idea what 2am would like.

lastusername

Rainmann wrote: »

Appreciate it. I think I will go up there to ask a few locals. The downturn stuff makes sense as well. I guess with it being connected to the town, it should rent fairly easily in all climates.

Yep, here's how to find out about any area in less than 5 minutes:

-Call up the local garda station and ask them what the area is like.
-Pop around to the area and chat with a few locals / residents.

Done!!

I did the latter with a house I was viewing in Rathfarnham recently (well more Edmonstown really). Was driving in and spotted a guy just around the corner from the house washing his car.

Took a stroll around and asked him if he wouldn't mind if I asked him what the area was like. He looked a bit cagey for a split second at me just stopping there (shows how quiet the area is too most likely!), but then just started chatting about how the area was grand and quiet, etc!

That area is really more Glasnevin than Finglas too.

Effects

Jet Black wrote: »

Finglas is an excellent location, 10 minutes to town.

Do you have your own helipad or make use of a community one?

Princess Calla

Oh yeah they get the bus early about 7-7:30and it's always jammed, so I'd imagine later would even be worse.

Summer holidays they manage to get a seat.

Effects

Princess Calla wrote: »

tbh I'd class it more glasnevin than Finglas...

Nah, it's Finglas. It's just snobs who live there that would pretend it's Glasnevin.

But to be honest, it is very close to Glasnevin, so it's probably the best part of Finglas to be in. Lovely amenities close by. Close enough to town and the M50. decent enough cycle path and access route to commute by bike.

I almost bought an apartment there in 2004. I went in to the estate agents office on the Monday, to put a deposit down, but someone had been in just before me and bought the one I wanted.

lastusername

lastusername wrote: »

Yep, here's how to find out about any area in less than 5 minutes:

-Call up the local garda station and ask them what the area is like.
-Pop around to the area and chat with a few locals / residents.

Done!!

I did the latter with a house I was viewing in Rathfarnham recently (well more Edmonstown really). Was driving in and spotted a guy just around the corner from the house washing his car.

Took a stroll around and asked him if he wouldn't mind if I asked him what the area was like. He looked a bit cagey for a split second at me just stopping there (shows how quiet the area is too most likely!), but then just started chatting about how the area was grand and quiet, etc!

That area is really more Glasnevin than Finglas too.

Its 100% Finglas south. It's on the Finglas road too.

That said, it's quite nice and I know the trouble spots, this is far from one of them,


you wont get much out of the gardai on this, in the way you think.
I once stood in Finglas garda station and a young Chinese couple buying on cappagh road asked the same thing, the gardai said Finglas is huge and has mostly great communities but like large areas, some areas can have some anti social issues. When she asked if Cappagh was one such area, he said we don't give that advice or judgement here, ask the seller. I thought he was correct too, she was really annoyed.

Princess Calla

Effects wrote: »

Nah, it's Finglas. It's just snobs who live there that would pretend it's Glasnevin.

But to be honest, it is very close to Glasnevin, so it's probably the best part of Finglas to be in. Lovely amenities close by. Close enough to town and the M50. decent enough cycle path and access route to commute by bike.

I almost bought an apartment there in 2004. I went in to the estate agents office on the Monday, to put a deposit down, but someone had been in just before me and bought the one I wanted.

Ah they say Finglas too, they are not trying to be snobby

Muahahaha

Have a mate that bought an apartment there as an investor in 2013 for 125,000, its been a great investment for him. The building itself is fine if a bit dated and as others have said it doesnt suffer from the same anti social problems as the rest of Finglas south. It being separated by the dual carriageway helps out in that regard. It has lots of professionals there and some HAP tenants.

You say you just want it as a store of wealth. Sounds like you've a risky investment strategy to me, its putting all your eggs into one basket. Given you know that there is not going to be much capital appreciation it might be better to look to diversify. If property is really what you want to invest in perhaps look at spreading your risk through the use of property funds or REITs.

Not saying it will be a bad investment as its a good location and in high demand due to its proximity to town. But the market seems to have peaked now and you would find better returns elsewhere.

Rainmann

Muahahaha wrote: »

Have a mate that bought an apartment there as an investor in 2013 for 125,000, its been a great investment for him. The building itself is fine if a bit dated and as others have said it doesnt suffer from the same anti social problems as the rest of Finglas south. It being separated by the dual carriageway helps out in that regard. It has lots of professionals there and some HAP tenants.

You say you just want it as a store of wealth. Sounds like you've a risky investment strategy to me, its putting all your eggs into one basket. Given you know that there is not going to be much capital appreciation it might be better to look to diversify. If property is really what you want to invest in perhaps look at spreading your risk through the use of property funds or REITs.

Not saying it will be a bad investment as its a good location and in high demand due to its proximity to town. But the market seems to have peaked now and you would find better returns elsewhere.

Nice tidy profit for your friend I'd say. What I meant by it being a store of value is that making money on the property isn't my number one priority, I really just want to have my own place and it ticks most boxes for me. The market is probably topping out yes, but at the same time I think outside of the ups and downs property in Dublin should at least hold value over time. One of the big differences from the last bubble is that rents are high now, whereas pre-2007 rents were not that high and it was driven purely off speculation and crazy lending. I do have other investments so I wouldn't be placing my eggs in one basket.

Muahahaha

Yeah he has done very well out of it. Hes exempt from capital gains too because of the scheme running when he purchased, so pretty much 100% returns for him when he sells, which he isnt going to do right now when rents are high.

Anyway good to hear it is not your only investment. I think you are right that it will hold value over time. There might be peaks and troughs but the health of property market is underpinned by the Central Bank not allowing lenders to lend too much. Even if we do have a recession that location is still close to town so will it always rent, especially with tech companies still expanding even further. I cant see rents going down too much in the short term when we still are not building the 40,000 odd units that are needed to match demand. That could change in the medium term but right now the industry seems well behind demand and more interested in building high end apartments over servicing the lower and medium ends of the market. An apartment like that close to town will always be attractive to first time buyers and those downsizing. If you were to hang on to it for 15-20 years the Finglas Luas line will also run pretty close by and should give you 15%-20% capital appreciation just like it has to Cabra with the extention to Broombridge.

You've also got to be prepared for the management of it and unforseen expenses to maintain it. Ask yourself what might be coming down the road. Id imagine it was built around the late 90s/early 2000s so if you were to own it until 2050 theres a decent chance major expenditure could occur such as having to replace the roof. You could get a letter in the box some day asking 10k per apartment which could wipe out a good portion of a years rent.

Tax on rental income is pretty high too, do your sums and find out if it will wash its own face or not.

Final thing to think about your exit strategy and when it will be. Impossible to predict market conditions at the time but do consider where you are in life and when you might need to sell it.

Rainmann

Muahahaha wrote: »

Yeah he has done very well out of it. Hes exempt from capital gains too because of the scheme running when he purchased, so pretty much 100% returns for him when he sells, which he isnt going to do right now when rents are high.

Anyway good to hear it is not your only investment. I think you are right that it will hold value over time. There might be peaks and troughs but the health of property market is underpinned by the Central Bank not allowing lenders to lend too much. Even if we do have a recession that location is still close to town so will it always rent, especially with tech companies still expanding even further. I cant see rents going down too much in the short term when we still are not building the 40,000 odd units that are needed to match demand. That could change in the medium term but right now the industry seems well behind demand and more interested in building high end apartments over servicing the lower and medium ends of the market. An apartment like that close to town will always be attractive to first time buyers and those downsizing. If you were to hang on to it for 15-20 years the Finglas Luas line will also run pretty close by and should give you 15%-20% capital appreciation just like it has to Cabra with the extention to Broombridge.

You've also got to be prepared for the management of it and unforseen expenses to maintain it. Ask yourself what might be coming down the road. Id imagine it was built around the late 90s/early 2000s so if you were to own it until 2050 theres a decent chance major expenditure could occur such as having to replace the roof. You could get a letter in the box some day asking 10k per apartment which could wipe out a good portion of a years rent.

Tax on rental income is pretty high too, do your sums and find out if it will wash its own face or not.

Final thing to think about your exit strategy and when it will be. Impossible to predict market conditions at the time but do consider where you are in life and when you might need to sell it.

I appreciate the detailed response, some things to consider for sure. The tax on rental income is fairly significant alright but I suppose only so much you can do there. I hadn't considered/didn't realise there were plans to built a Luas line, will look into that for sure (Although god know when they will get around to that haha).

Gumbo

It’s Finglas alright.
I never hear of any problems in there.

Bus stop directly outside.
On main road to town so taxis go by every 30 seconds.
Glen hill and Finglas East behind you.

It’s a gated development too so you can’t just rock up and walk in.
Not much activity around the place, it wouldn’t be the typical spot for people hanging around or anything.

Muahahaha

Rainmann wrote: »

I appreciate the detailed response, some things to consider for sure. The tax on rental income is fairly significant alright but I suppose only so much you can do there. I hadn't considered/didn't realise there were plans to built a Luas line, will look into that for sure (Although god know when they will get around to that haha).

At a minimum 15 years and likely closer to 20. The NTA have said it is a decade premature and that they're busy working on Metrolink so cant undertake it just yet.

Long term plan for that line is to extend from Broombridge, through the Dublin Industrial Estate (which will be re-zoned for lots of apartments), over the Tolka river and up the N2 terminating in the large car park outside Charlestown Shopping Centre.

Its a long way off and it doesnt help that one of the main proponents of it locally (Noel Rock TD) just lost his seat in the election. Also when/if the Metrolink gets finished the Finglas extension will face competition for funding from the other proposed extension from Sandyford to Bray.

If it does happen it would be a nice little bonus in terms of your investment. Just dont be counting on it anytime soon!

Article on it here
https://www.thejournal.ie/finglas-luas-premature-3968622-Apr2018/

lastusername

Personally I doubt I'd ever invest in property unless it was a really obvious good bet with a fairly sure bet with a brilliant return. I'd imagine it's like taking on a part-time job managing and overseeing the place, with relatively fixed income which is unlike a job or other type of investment.



If you have the funds to invest it could go into something more passive, even if less certain in terms of consistent returns (just depends on the investment obviously).

Xterminator

the good news is even in a downturn it will still be a 2 bed aptmnt.

if you were buying with a mortgage, there is a risk of negative equity. Do you require a loan?

otherwise there is little risk, and as returns on cash deposits are currently negative factoring in inflation it is not a bad investment. Its location is very much in your favour, as it is located in a good desirable location.

Shelga

Goddammit OP, that’s the apartment I wanted to go view, was wondering why they weren’t getting back to me!

I’ve been weighing everything up for 2 years now, I think Premier Square is, on balance, good value for money. Being close enough to town to cycle to work is one of my main aims.

I’d like to say good luck, but I’m jealous and don’t mean it... :pac:

*edit* I would just add that €235k is a high asking price for an apartment that overlooks the car park. I know from viewings and talking to estate agents, that those ones have been going for €10k less than that. Not sure what your offer is, but something to be aware of.