Console modding

CiDeRmAn

I'd like to welcome Console Modding and the mods that mod it to the A&R Forum!

o1s1n

Well that's an interesting development!

I see the tag line is 'Modification and Repair of Computer Gaming Consoles.'

Is it also going to be a spot for arcade repair bits and pieces too? Would be nice to have it all under the one umbrella.

DelBoy Trotter

o1s1n wrote: »

Is it also going to be a spot for arcade repair bits and pieces too? Would be nice to have it all under the one umbrella.

Good idea IMO

Inviere

o1s1n wrote: »

Well that's an interesting development!

I see the tag line is 'Modification and Repair of Computer Gaming Consoles.'

Is it also going to be a spot for arcade repair bits and pieces too? Would be nice to have it all under the one umbrella.

Good idea, might warrant a name change then to "Retro Modding & Repairs" or something. There's threads on the front page of it going back three years, so it's pretty much a dead duck at this stage. If some A&R content doesn't help it, then I'd nearly say close it down and merge all its old content and threads here.

CiDeRmAn

Inviere wrote: »

Good idea, might warrant a name change then to "Retro Modding & Repairs" or something. There's threads on the front page of it going back three years, so it's pretty much a dead duck at this stage. If some A&R content doesn't help it, then I'd nearly say close it down and merge all its old content and threads here.

I'm staying away from name changes, following traumatic experiences I don't want to talk about!

Inviere

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I'm staying away from name changes, following traumatic experiences I don't want to talk about!

It's just Console Modding hardly screams "post your arcade pcb repairs here". Tbh I'd say the forum is a dead duck, the arcade repairs & mods here in A&R seem part of the forum now, and people understandably won't want to dilute the content of A&R. Console Modding won't survive on the very odd Snes region free mod thread, and it's days as an active forum are loooong gone (the 360 JTAG days).

CiDeRmAn

I was, in fact, being facetious...
If a name change makes sense with its new location, it's certainly something we can take to the admins

Sparks43

Inviere wrote: »

It's just Console Modding hardly screams "post your arcade pcb repairs here". Tbh I'd say the forum is a dead duck, the arcade repairs & mods here in A&R seem part of the forum now, and people understandably won't want to dilute the content of A&R. Console Modding won't survive on the very odd Snes region free mod thread, and it's days as an active forum are loooong gone (the 360 JTAG days).

Top tip: Don’t use a region free snes for speedrunning.

Loses about 6 seconds every 30 minutes or so.


Maybe have it also a place for weird and wonderful projects like a Nintoaster or something even stranger.

Inviere

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I was, in fact, being facetious...
If a name change makes sense with its new location, it's certainly something we can take to the admins

I know Cidey, I know :) (obv referring to the A&R name change of yore that crashed & burned )

Sparks43 wrote: »

Top tip: Don’t use a region free snes for speedrunning.

Loses about 6 seconds every 30 minutes or so.

Really?? I always thought a region modded Snes was pretty much identical to an NTSC Snes?

safetyboy

yes PC engine working i will update with setttings, saturn stil momochrome

Sparks43

Inviere wrote: »

Really?? I always thought a region modded Snes was pretty much identical to an NTSC Snes?

No it runs at pal60 which runs slightly slower than an ntsc console. It’s absolutely unnoticeable unless you put them alongside each other and run something like a timer in Mario Kart

In the SMK community tests were conducted before the 150cc tournament. So native ntsc consoles have a slight advantage.

Unless you play the Japan version. Which as I’ve found out that on some tracks the cpu characters take on a whole new level of evil

Inviere

^^ very interesting, cheers for that

o1s1n

Sparks43 wrote: »

No it runs at pal60 which runs slightly slower than an ntsc console. It’s absolutely unnoticeable unless you put them alongside each other and run something like a timer in Mario Kart

In the SMK community tests were conducted before the 150cc tournament. So native ntsc consoles have a slight advantage.

Unless you play the Japan version. Which as I’ve found out that on some tracks the cpu characters take on a whole new level of evil

You sure it's not just PAL optimization messing things up? Some snes games are PAL optimised, most aren't.

Mario Kart is PAL optimised, if you try to run a PAL copy on an NTSC console (or a modified PAL one) it bugs out.

It doesn't mean a modified PAL console necessary runs slower (I wouldn't have thought that possible as theyre both running at 60hz)

Kind of want to get a US console now just to test this theory out!

You'd really have to use a non PAL optimised game (so Mario Kart is out) to see if theres any difference.

Sparks43

o1s1n wrote: »

You sure it's not just PAL optimization messing things up? Some snes games are PAL optimised, most aren't.

Mario Kart is PAL optimised, if you try to run a PAL copy on an NTSC console (or a modified PAL one) it bugs out.

It doesn't mean a modified PAL console necessary runs slower (I wouldn't have thought that possible as theyre both running at 60hz)

Kind of want to get a US console now just to test this theory out!

You'd really have to use a non PAL optimised game (so Mario Kart is out) to see if theres any difference.

On this both are running the NTSC version of Super Mario Kart.

Both Japanese versions

One on a region modded PAL system

One on a native ntsc system.

If you leave them running side by side and take a picture from the initial select of a track in time trial after starting both at same time and then take a picture after 9 minutes of runtime you will see a difference

An edit here

SMK is not PAL optimized. In fact Nintendo seriously botched the job on the pal side.

Both games play completely different and my ntsc times are in general around 2 seconds faster than pal

Also ntsc is much more forgiving of mistakes. On the vanilla lake or Koopa beach tracks one tiny deep water hit on pal results in an immediate drown. Where as on ntsc it will slow you slightly but you skip over.

The amount of playtime on this game by players in this community is huge and it’s been studied in extreme detail. And it’s so much fun reading and participating in research

The Last Bandit

Seems plausible alright, NTSC console clock frequency is 21.477MHz but the PAL console runs slightly slower at 21.281MHz, someone else can do the math and work out the relative drift..

o1s1n

Sparks43 wrote: »

On this both are running the NTSC version of Super Mario Kart.

Both Japanese versions

One on a region modded PAL system

One on a native ntsc system.

If you leave them running side by side and take a picture from the initial select of a track in time trial after starting both at same time and then take a picture after 9 minutes of runtime you will see a difference

An edit here

SMK is not PAL optimized. In fact Nintendo seriously botched the job on the pal side.

Both games play completely different and my ntsc times are in general around 2 seconds faster than pal

Also ntsc is much more forgiving of mistakes. On the vanilla lake or Koopa beach tracks one tiny deep water hit on pal results in an immediate drown. Where as on ntsc it will slow you slightly but you skip over.

The amount of playtime on this game by players in this community is huge and it’s been studied in extreme detail. And it’s so much fun reading and participating in research

That's really fascinating stuff, I'd love to test it out myself across a few different games (finally a legitimate reason for having multiple CRTs! )

PAL Super Mario Kart is optimised in some capacity alright, I don't know the game a fraction as well as yourself (so it's probably still inferior to the NTSC version as you said) but if you put a PAL cart into an NTSC console it goes crazy, glitches out etc - same thing happens to Pilot Wings and Super Mario World. Which is a sign that they've been optimised in their PAL release.

peddlelies

o1s1n wrote: »

That's really fascinating stuff, I'd love to test it out myself across a few different games (finally a legitimate reason for having multiple CRTs! )

PAL Super Mario Kart is optimised in some capacity alright, I don't know the game a fraction as well as yourself (so it's probably still inferior to the NTSC version as you said) but if you put a PAL cart into an NTSC console it goes crazy, glitches out etc - same thing happens to Pilot Wings and Super Mario World. Which is a sign that they've been optimised in their PAL release.

All stars and Starfox too, but Mario 3 all stars is playable its only the very top few scanlines that glitch out.

The_B_Man

I'd love to see some in-house guides for modding SNES/megadrive/N64 etc, but wouldn't have the skills/consoles myself.
Also stuff like restoring broken consoles, whether they be old Amigas or like an Xbox360. Maybe some related guides on how to properly solder, and discussion of the best types of mods, assuming there's more than just region hacking and backups.

80s Synth Pop

My original snes has the basic 50/60hz switch that I installed in the late 90's and it seems fine but for the 1chip SNES I bought a complete 50/60hz kit that includes a little circuit board with a different crystal that kicks in when you switch to 60Hz. There is a difference the clock used and this circuit board fixes it. BAD_AD sells them on the assembler games forum

All the guides are on mmmonkeys page.
Here and here

o1s1n

You did a 50/60hz switch mod in the 90s? amazing! Back in those days I didn't even know we were being shafted in PAL regions with slower games. The idea of importing a console was completely alien too so I probably hadn't even seen one running at 60hz.

Inviere

This thread about the forum move has had more conversation than the forum itself