Satellite TV – Apartments - Looking for advice

Arklow10

I am an apartment owner and have recently joined the Owners Management Company (OMC).
Our apartment block has many satellite TVs installed on balconies even the roof, all against house rules. For many reasons (rusty dishes, loose cables hanging down from of the building , dishes installed in inappropriate fabric damaging locations, etc.) despite been against house rules we now wish to remove these.
We have communicated to all owners and tenants and have removed the very few installed satellite dishes installed on a roof that were damaging the roof . We are now going in due course have all satellite dishes removed from all balconies/walls. However we wish to provide a cost effective alternative solution before then that will hopefully satisfy most/all occupiers.
We have roof mounted professionally installed large satellite dishes (Sky). We also have installed very fast hard wired broadband to every apartment.
However as we have occupiers (both owners and renters) who are not from Ireland and who wish to watch TV from their native countries we wish to provide solutions, if possible, for this group before we proceed with our proposed course of action.
What alternatives are there to externally mounted satellites that allow apartments users to view TV stations from other countries with good quality reception at a reasonable cost? How do these installations work? What infrastructure is required to achieve this either internally to an apartment or externally by the OMC?
Thank you

Ray Palmer

So are you going to put a cost of removal to all owners or just those that installed them?

Contact Sky and the will explain the costs and setups. The thing is that won't provide other foreign channels. Those type of setups are a little dodgy and you will find it difficult to get a reputable service provider.

You are trying to deliver too much. You cannot be everything to everyone. Best real solution is people use IPTV services but that is legally grey.

I don't think you can provide what you want and it is a bit unreasonable.

Marcusm

Identify which satellites you want and the appropriate location. Sky for example is hosted on 28.2.

Lyngsat (see below) will help you identify relevant locations. Depending on your mix of nationalities you might need only one extra dish. You would need planning permission, it might be available if it is hidden on the roof.

Use a reputable Indy installer (plenty on east coast, I used an Eastern European guy from Greystones but he mostly does commercial jobs) and see about cabling. They might have to accept a limited number of feeds per apartment.

https://www.lyngsat.com/europe.html

Arklow10

Thank you Ray.
To clarify the removal costs and other associated costs including corridor area ceilings repainting, additional safety and security measures were carried out and this cost was against all owners via their annual mgt fee, even though the leaks were caused by a few.

We cannot allow any further roof installations. Also loose hanging cables from previous and current installations down the walls look unsightly. Satellite dishes are in some cases getting rusty.
So as we removed the roof top mounted dishes we will no doubt have additional dishes now installed on balconies.
I agree it is not possible to satisfy all. Just exploring is it possible to provide some European channels as an option, I see apartment blocks without any satellite dishes installed on balconies so I thought there maybe solutions out there.
We would, I imaging be very reluctant to go into any grey area.

Arklow10

Marcusm, that sounds interesting, will definitely explore those.
I see I will also have to get up to speed on the technical stuff associated with this issue!

Thank you

Ray Palmer

I would be annoyed if I didn't put up a dish and had to pay repairs because others did. Tenants put up a dish on my property and when I told them they never got planning and had to remove it they went ballistic. A few weeks later the council sent a letter to the property to get it removed. They blamed me! The reason I told them to remove it because the exact same thing happened to the tenants before.
Took them a few months before they did take it down and they did it themselves making a mess. Told them to get the wall fixed and they did nothing. Then when I took their deposit to fix the issue they went ballistic again.

No reasoning with people but I certainly wouldn't take costs created by tenants or my fellow owners.

Ray Palmer

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Those type of setups are a little dodgy and you will find it difficult to get a reputable service provider.

Nothing dodgy about having a dish pointed at a different satellite which is what the people need.

In fact for most common satellites this could all be done on a single large dish with multiple LNB if you can find the person with the right expertise to do it.

That being said I think it’s crazy people can’t install a dish on their property once it’s done properly.

ELM327

I'd be very annoyed if you damaged and removed my property.
Wonder would the residents have legal recourse. That would be an option I would be pursuing.

Graham

ELM327 wrote: »

Wonder would the residents have legal recourse.

I doubt it.

Mike3549

ELM327 wrote: »

I'd be very annoyed if you damaged and removed my property.
Wonder would the residents have legal recourse. That would be an option I would be pursuing.

What kind of legal recourse are you talking about? Those dishes are against the rules. They should be happy that they dont get the bill of said removal.

Arklow10

It is explicitly stated in the apartment complex rules that the installation of satellite dishes are not allowed. each owner gets a copy of these annually as occasionally they are tweaked. They are advised to attache a copy of each to each lease agreement. Also there are permanent copies in the main entrances of each building.
Previously the rules were not properly enforced hence their installation and roof membrane damage as a result.
As the house rules were not enforced on this topic, satellite dishes have been installed so we are now trying to come up with suitable alternatives, where possible and communicate these options before all dishes are removed.

Caranica

ELM327 wrote: »

I'd be very annoyed if you damaged and removed my property.
Wonder would the residents have legal recourse. That would be an option I would be pursuing.

The only people who should be entitled to legal recourse are the owners who didn't put up dishes who are being lumped with the charges of removal and repair!

OP as someone said above, you're doing too much. These people bought/rented in a place that dishes aren't allowed and went and put them up anyway. Zero sympathy for them, plenty of places allow them. Btw they're explicitly banned in the planning permission for our development so check yours. Even communal dishes might be a problem.

macplaxton

Technically possible to have a satellite distribution system of one fixed dish with offset LNBs pointing at 28.E Astra E,F,G (Sky/Freesat) and say 19.2 Astra and Hotbird 13 (Polsat) and a distribution switches to each unit.

How much? Dunno.

riclad

IF someone has broadband theres,s plenty of legal or not so legal service,s
that allow you to watch european tv.

https://www.satellites.co.uk/forums/threads/multi-lnb-holders-question.86194/

one dish can have 5 lnb,s on it.the lnb is the small device that picks ups the signal from the dish,
each lnb needs one cable to send the signal to a satellite reciever.
I think there,s lnbs that have 4 output socket,s eg 4 cables can be plugged into to it,
so in theory one dish could provide a signal for 20 customers .
https://www.justelectronics.co.za/elsat-universal-quad-lnb/

riclad

https://www.satellite.ie/acatalog/Amiko-Saorview-and-UK-free-TV-system.html#SID=95
any sky reciever with no card,no sub, will give acess to lots of fta free
to air channel,s ,eg itv,bbc,
c4, etc but a sky sub is needed to watch rte,tg4.

Arklow10

Thanks guys all very good stuff here.
Will definitely research this to try and get a better handle on this topic.

Would all satellite TV providers fully understand this and be able to come up with some options?
Any competent suppliers located in the south east of the country?

A couple we have spoken to just spoke about Saor TV

Caranica

Arklow10 wrote: »

Thanks guys all very good stuff here.
Will definitely research this to try and get a better handle on this topic.

Would all satellite TV providers fully understand this and be able to come up with some options?
Any competent suppliers located in the south east of the country?

A couple we have spoken to just spoke about Saor TV

Satellite providers will promise you the world to get your money. What they deliver can be very different.

Might be a moot point if your planning permission prohibits dishes anyway.

Del2005

ELM327 wrote: »

I'd be very annoyed if you damaged and removed my property.
Wonder would the residents have legal recourse. That would be an option I would be pursuing.

The OMC is more annoyed about you damaging their property especially since nearly every lease specifically prohibits satalite dishes. Most of the time when satellite dishes are taken off they are left on the balcony for the offender to dispose of themselves.

Why is it OK for you to damage something which you don't own yet not OK for the owner of the property you damaged to remove your equipment that damaged their property?

Del2005

Arklow10 wrote: »

Thanks guys all very good stuff here.
Will definitely research this to try and get a better handle on this topic.

Would all satellite TV providers fully understand this and be able to come up with some options?
Any competent suppliers located in the south east of the country?

A couple we have spoken to just spoke about Saor TV

If I was your OMC I'd provide a feed for Sky or Free sat and leave it at that. If you provide a feed for one region then you'll get complaints from other regions why don't they have a feed and the wiring will be a nightmare and cost a fortune.

The complex has good broadband let them sort themselves out if they want anything else, even Sky is looking to use the Internet for TV distribution.

riclad

Google freesat ireland ,i think theres freesat reciever s with saorview built in,
saorview has rte,tg4,bbc ,etc its free no charge apart from the licence fee .
google your area, eg wexford satellite tv installation etc
free sat installation service ireland your county etc


http://www.corksatelliteservices.ie/

http://www.corksatelliteservices.ie/packages/

Saorview needs a small aerial to receive the signal.its digital fta free service ,
does not use a dish.

morrga

Our apartment block put up just one communal sky dish which was then able to feed into whatever apartment blocked wanted to subscribe to Sky.

riclad

Yes there s no need to have dish for each apartment,
one dish can have 5 plus lnb,s on it,
from each lnb theres one cable that goes to each apartment.
https://www.satellite.ie/acatalog/Frequently-Asked-Questions.html



https://www.satellite.ie/acatalog/Amiko-Saorview-and-UK-free-TV-system.html#SID=95

Arklow10

All this information is really good . The more I begin to understand what is likely to be possible, the more I appreciate I haven't got a clue!! So please bear with me.

We do not want any more separate individual apartment mounted dishes, shared or otherwise. We will in due course remove all existing installed dishes.

Currently the roof mounted Sky dish services all apartments.

Is it possible to have a separate new dish,one LNB, pointed to say pick up Polsat, set up correctly etc. by a competent person, that can service all apartments via their wired hi speed broadband (1mb) and do this Polish free to air signal ?
Possibly with some form of adaptor within each apartment that wants this service that can take that signal from the apartment broadband connection directly to their TV?
Then if someone wants this Polsat service and say Sky also, how would the Sky service also be received in that apartment? Is it by changing a cable at the back of each apartments TV to the particular TV service box?

Also could a separate Saor dish also be installed that could provide the Saor service too via the hardwired broadband connection?

Thereby having three separate dishes (options) that each apartment could choose what service or services they wish from this offering only?

Also does anyone know of a good supplier in the South East that could be contacted re this?

Appreciate all the replies received.

riclad

Saorview just needs a saorview box and a 10 euro small aerial.palce aerial near a window .
each lnb is about can have about 5 outlet signal ports on it,
from each port run one cable to each apartment .
saorview box and aerial about 110euro,see powercity.ie
say 20 people want polsat, you,d need 1dish,with 4lnbs on it.

saorview and broadband cant be mixed.
sky tv can be recieved using broadband but i think it needs one cable
from a sky dish too .
go to sky website,search sky Q service.
So a dish can have 5 plus lnbs,
Each lnb can provide 4-5 outputs ,from each output 1 cable goe,s to each apartment .so from 1 dish you can get at least 20 cables ,20 separate signals ,to serve 20 apartments .
each apartment needs 1 cable from the lnb.
many foreign channels can be recieved on broadband
using streaming services ,i don,t watch polish tv ,
so i cant comment on that.
see easyview.eu free tv.
google polish tv streaming service.
so one lnb could service 4-5users,
put 5 lnbs on a dish,
that serves 20 plus users .
say you have 100 users , you,d need 25 lnbs.


http://sat-planet.ie/satellite-tv/multi-lnb-holders

http://sat-planet.ie/satellite-tv/multi-lnb-holders/4-lnb-triax-td-multiblock-lnb-holder


http://sat-planet.ie/satellite-tv/lnbs/octo

LNB,S with 8 output sockets,
you need 1 cable for each socket.

sky just provides extra channels using sky q box.connected to broadband .

search polish tv streaming service on google

or 4 octo lnbs on 1 dish provides signal for 32 users, eg 4 x8 =32 .
each lnb socket out needs a cable run to each user ,satellite reciever .


saor recieves a signal from a small aerial,

https://powercity.ie/product/068515

aerial pugs into saorview box.
saorview is over the air, like radio. it does not work on a sat dish.
each user would need saorview box ,
theres also combo free view satellite recievers which also recieve saorview channels,

.
saorview just needs an aerial.and a saorview reciever .
it cant be mixed in with broadband.
saorview is a over the air digital tv service ,
remember the aerials people put up on the roof to watch bbc and itv free .
if you have broadband you can watch tv using easyview.eu and rte.ie rte player .


https://powercity.ie/product/WPS818C
plug usb drive to record tv on this model.
aerial plugs into saorview box.
aerial is placed near a window inside apartment

SteM

OP, you're overthinking this. Take down the dishes and send a letter to all owners and renters saying there is a communal dish avaliable for anyone that wants to avail of Sky. Why would you go to the expense of installing a dish offering polsat? If I owned in your development and had to pay towards that setup I'd be raging.

riclad

you can use the old cables to connect to a dish for polstat tv,
you,d likely need a 2 nd dish for freesat uk tv,
dish work by pointing at the satellite, eg 65 degree west,
polish tv sat is probably located at different points in the sky,
from sky tv or freesat tv.

Arklow10

riclad, ok , I understand much better the technology options now, really appreciate your patience.

SteM . Lot to be said for your approach too. We may well go down that route. However if a bad practice was allowed to continue for over 20 years without been addressed it becomes the norm.
Change from this position is difficult but will be done.

Thank you all.

macplaxton

riclad wrote: »

you can use the old cables to connect to a dish for polstat tv,
you,d likely need a 2 nd dish for freesat uk tv,
dish work by pointing at the satellite, eg 65 degree west,
polish tv sat is probably located at different points in the sky,
from sky tv or freesat tv.

Polsat is on Hotbird 13E, Sky/Freesat on 28.2E

Quite simple to position one dish to receive both. I'll dig out a pic later.



I tidied up the wiring later. This was a solution to a house share problem. We wanted Freesat (and two downfeeds for the recorder box), the other Polish couple wanted Polsat. To avoid a planning permission issue of two dishes, both feeds were combined onto one dish and a 9/6 multiswitch was powered in the loft. Everyone happy.

jimmycrackcorm

Add this is not the satellite forum then I suggest, leave the communal dish for normal satellite users.
For anyone else, advise them to get IPTV over their broadband.

Problem solved.

macplaxton

Fair enough, the technical details would be better off in the Satellite forum https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=55 or the Foreign Satellite forum https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=622

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

normal satellite users.

What's normal to you might be different to others depending on the nationality mix of the block.

Find out what everyone wants in the block wants. Be it Sky/Freesat, Polsat, FM, DAB, Irish terrestrial telly. Then go to an installer and find out how much it's going to cost.

Should only need one dish (+ however many LNBs), one TV aerial, one FM aerial, one DAB aerial. This might be duplicated where the building is large and it is preferable to split the system into two to keep cable runs sensible. The rest is all dealt with by the switches in the head-end(s) and perhaps at the wall sockets.

OP have a look at this: http://www.satellite-services.co.uk/uploads/3/4/3/8/34387786/portfolio_9wire_irs.pdf as an example. Other things to Google are "9 wire IRS" "SMATV" and find an installer that deals with communal distribution systems. http://isaa.ie/ http://industrialvideo.ie/

L1011

riclad wrote: »

Yes there s no need to have dish for each apartment,
one dish can have 5 plus lnb,s on it,
from each lnb theres one cable that goes to each apartment.
https://www.satellite.ie/acatalog/Frequently-Asked-Questions.html



https://www.satellite.ie/acatalog/Amiko-Saorview-and-UK-free-TV-system.html#SID=95

This is precisely how NOT to do this. You're electrically bridging apartments.

Get a professional to do it and don't bodge a home system together

Arklow10

Thank you all. Based on the replies received we realise we need competent technical assistance. We are contacting two companies who have considerable experience in this area to survey the blocks and give us written specifications, quotes etc.
We still may not go down this route and just remove all dishes, but we will have explored and costed alternatives.
We know we will not be able to accommodate all users.
You feedback gave us sufficient knowledge to understand the scale of the issue and the different technologies out there.