Nonsense about government formation, very simple solution

Long_Wave

It's perfectly simple, FF+FG+ FF/FG genepool "independents" would have a stable majority 5 year government. Martin would be Taoiseach, Varadkar Tánaiste & minister for Finance, McGrath Public expenditure, Covney stays in foreign affairs, Murphy and Harris replaced by new FF ministers. If the people decide in spring 2025 to give SF and the left an overall majority, well that's democracy.

dxhound2005

Long_Wave wrote: »

It's perfectly simple, FF+FG+ FF/FG genepool "independents" would have a stable majority 5 year government. Martin would be Taoiseach, Varadkar Tánaiste & minister for Finance, McGrath Public expenditure, Covney stays in foreign affairs, Murphy and Harris replaced by new FF ministers. If the people decide in spring 2025 to give SF and the left an overall majority, well that's democracy.

But please let us have a bit of fun for the next couple of months, waiting for it to happen.

Jinglejangle69

Long_Wave wrote: »

It's perfectly simple, FF+FG+ FF/FG genepool "independents" would have a stable majority 5 year government. Martin would be Taoiseach, Varadkar Tánaiste & minister for Finance, McGrath Public expenditure, Covney stays in foreign affairs, Murphy and Harris replaced by new FF ministers. If the people decide in spring 2025 to give SF and the left an overall majority, well that's democracy.

Not really the "change" we keep hearing so much about

I think it'd be better if they all became the government of the areas that voted most for them.

So SF would be the government in Louth, Offaly, Sligo, Tipperary and Cork. FF would be North Dublin, Clare, Limerick, etc.*

It would be so much handier for all involved and everyone would get to be Taoiseach, so there'd be no losers, only winners, and all the TDs that didn't get elected would get medals for participating.



*randomly picked places

Loafing Oaf

Long_Wave wrote: »

It's perfectly simple, FF+FG+ FF/FG genepool "independents" would have a stable majority 5 year government. Martin would be Taoiseach, Varadkar Tánaiste & minister for Finance, McGrath Public expenditure, Covney stays in foreign affairs, Murphy and Harris replaced by new FF ministers. If the people decide in spring 2025 to give SF and the left an overall majority, well that's democracy.

Think you may be half right. FF/FG may be well go for a 'belt & braces' approach to coalition building by signing up the Greens but also getting 8-10 of the parish pump merchants on board so the Greens would in theory be unable to bring the government down if they walked out. Not a good look to be negotiating grubby side deals with a dozen little gombeens but it wouldn't be so bad if it's just 'backup'.

dxhound2005

Deleted User wrote: »

I think it'd be better if they all became the government of the areas that voted most for them.

So SF would be the government in Louth, Offaly, Sligo, Tipperary and Cork. FF would be North Dublin, Clare, Limerick, etc.*

It would be so much handier for all involved and everyone would get to be Taoiseach, so there'd be no losers, only winners, and all the TDs that didn't get elected would get medals for participating.



*randomly picked places

That's good. But my idea of two Healy Rae types in ever constituency would bring even more democracy to the locals.

RonanG86

Ah yeah, just kick the problem 5 years down the line rather than deal with the fact that you mishandled the country enough that people voted for the Provos.

That's probably what they'll do though.

Ultimanemo

Long_Wave wrote: »

It's perfectly simple, FF+FG+ FF/FG genepool "independents" would have a stable majority 5 year government. Martin would be Taoiseach, Varadkar Tánaiste & minister for Finance, McGrath Public expenditure, Covney stays in foreign affairs, Murphy and Harris replaced by new FF ministers. If the people decide in spring 2025 to give SF and the left an overall majority, well that's democracy.

I think Martin and Varadkar don't agree who is going to be the Taoiseach

dxhound2005

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That's good. But my idea of two Healy Rae types in ever constituency would bring even more democracy to the locals.

The Healy Rae's would be the wildcard. Give them an electric moped and let them wander the country.


Wherever they end up having to charge the battery overnight becomes 'Rae-ville' and the Rural Ireland Clause kicks in, allowing drink driving, smoking indoors, speeding etc. to become unregulated, until they leave on their Moped to the next town or village with a charger.

freshpopcorn

Do you really want five years of social media and Mary lou saying this is not what the public voted for.

Pawwed Rig

The problem for FF and the Greens is that if they return FG to power they will be annihilated in the next election. The Greens especially should realise that after last time out. Having SF in opposition on their own has lead to the current mess. Another 5 years of it and SF will have consolidated themselves as one of the main parties. Micheal Martin may be the last FF taoiseach.....

dxhound2005

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The problem for FF and the Greens is that if they return FG to power they will be annihilated in the next election. The Greens especially should realise that after last time out. Having SF in opposition on their own has lead to the current mess. Another 5 years of it and SF will have consolidated themselves as one of the main parties. Micheal Martin may be the last FF taoiseach.....

This post demonstrates like others have done, that no party should go into government. All they get in return is an almighty kick in the behind at the next election.

It must be the modern way. Back when Bertie was running the show, he got in three times in a row.

Quantum Erasure

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Not really the "change" we keep hearing so much about

We didn't vote for change in enough numbers, maybe another general election, SF put up more candidates, it might happen. though i feel if there is another election, SF will lose a good few seats, rather than gain

Arghus

The big fear is that will give SF license to hammer them night, noon and morning from the opposition benches - which I think they'd be more happy to do, it may even be their preferred option, despite their rhetoric - and then FFG can walk hand in hand into electoral suicide in the next GE.

dxhound2005

Arghus wrote: »

The big fear is that will give SF license to hammer them night, noon and morning from the opposition benches - which I think they'd be more happy to do, it may even be their preferred option, despite their rhetoric - and then FFG can walk hand in hand into electoral suicide in the next GE.

And if the new government made major improvements in housing and health, SF would then go off on their crusade for a United Ireland to distract the voters.

Nothing wrong with that for electoral advantage, it's just like governments going to war to keep themselves popular.

jodome

Long_Wave wrote: »

It's perfectly simple, FF+FG+ FF/FG genepool "independents" would have a stable majority 5 year government. ...If the people decide in spring 2025 to give SF and the left an overall majority, well that's democracy.

Think you're dead right. Surely they can find enough "independents" to make it work. It would probably take a lot to get the Greens to trust FF again after the wipeout following their last coalition, but not impossible.

Ultimanemo

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

We didn't vote for change in enough numbers, maybe another general election, SF put up more candidates, it might happen. though i feel if there is another election, SF will lose a good few seats, rather than gain

True because FF and FG underestimated SF and didn't criticize them enough, SF numbers don't add up, they promised a lot but if you take a pen and paper and do the maths you will find their manifesto is unachievable.

Idbatterim

I absolutely love this. Decades of absolute economic mismanagement from ffg. They will be destroyed next election, if it’s ffg again. It’s a win / win !!!

Idbatterim

Ultimanemo wrote: »

True because FF and FG underestimated SF and didn't criticize them enough, SF numbers don't add up, they promised a lot but if you take a pen and paper and do the maths you will find their manifesto is unachievable.

Ffg spend billions on ****e each budget. Better scrap usc up to a limit and lpt , than blow it on public sector pay rises or welfare increases. Because that’s the choice

Charles Babbage

Idbatterim wrote: »

Ffg spend billions on ****e each budget. Better scrap usc up to a limit and lpt , than blow it on public sector pay rises or welfare increases. Because that’s the choice

It is this kind of "comment" that has the country the way it is. The public sector pay needs to reflect the going rate, that is why there are shortages of services. Likewise the people receiving welfare should be assessed to make sure they need it, but if they do they then they should be paid a proper rate.

Feisar

But but SF have a mandate!!!

super_furry

Feisar wrote: »

But but SF have a mandate!!!

Change! Change! Change! Change!

Starting to sound like a lad sitting in front of a bank machine.

willowthewisp

Fact of the matter is , despite all the triumphalism of SF, only 25% of the people want them. They may have gotten the biggest single vote, but not like it’s a majority, beat of a bad lot etc...

Makes most sense that FF & FG join forces with the greens and grab power. Sure doesn’t everyone tell us there is no difference between FF & FG anyway.

StupidLikeAFox

Arghus wrote: »

The big fear is that will give SF license to hammer them night, noon and morning from the opposition benches - which I think they'd be more happy to do, it may even be their preferred option, despite their rhetoric - and then FFG can walk hand in hand into electoral suicide in the next GE.

It will be unusual for Ireland but we might end up with a proper left/right split in the government.

StupidLikeAFox

Also, this is a direct quote from Michael Martin after one of the debates:

Our response is, we will not be entering into a grand coalition. People want change, it's very clear the message we're receiving. People want change in this country they want Fine Gael out of office.

Would be interesting to see the backtracking on that one!

Roger_007

SF do not want to go into government. They will make a big song and dance about doing their best to form a government knowing that there’s no way it can happen.
This has been their strategy all along. They never fielded enough candidates to to go anywhere near putting a left majority together. Their strategy was, and is, to force FF and FG into a coalition.
Everyone knows that the electorate will crucify whoever is in government at the next election. It doesn’t matter what they do in office, elections are now determined by the politics of anecdote. All you need is a few hard luck stories doing the rounds on social media and you’re a dead duck.
The truth is that nobody really wants to be in government, everyone wants to in opposition. I believe that there will be no government formed this time and that there will be another election within six months.

Pawwed Rig

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

We didn't vote for change in enough numbers

77%??

Long_Wave

jodome wrote: »

Surely they can find enough "independents" to make it work.

Absolutely, Denis Naughten, Sean Cannery, Richard O'Donoghue, Mattie McGrath, Marian Harkin, Noel Grealish + 2 Healy Raes and you have a working majority.

Fred Cryton

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Not really the "change" we keep hearing so much about

What change. FF+FG got twice as many votes as SF.



SF are an unholy alliance of provo sympathisers, welfare heads from inner Dublin and now young millennials completely brainwashed by their propaganda machine into thinking they'd get a free gaf.

Idbatterim

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

It will be unusual for Ireland but we might end up with a proper left/right split in the government.

We have a right wing party ?

JP Liz V1

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Also, this is a direct quote from Michael Martin after one of the debates:


Would be interesting to see the backtracking on that one!

A so-called ‘super grand’ coalition made up of Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil, and the Green Party is being proposed in a bid to deny Sinn Féin power.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/super-grand-coalition-mooted-to-deny-sf-981225.html

Loafing Oaf

Arghus wrote: »

T - and then FFG can walk hand in hand into electoral suicide in the next GE.

Yeah but Mickey Martin he'll be all like

StupidLikeAFox

Idbatterim wrote: »

We have a right wing party ?

Well they are not as right wing as they used to be but FG and FF are slightly to the right and very similar in their outlooks. Its weird that they have been stepping in and out for the past 100 years. Which means we have never had a parliament that was roughly divided along the whole left/right spectrum which would be common in other countries.

joseywhales

Is this the same right wing party that supported abortion and same sex marriage referendums?

Seriously, you are better off not being in power these days, its the classic case of it being easier to destroy than to create, easier to criticize than to offer solutions and easier to blame other's than to question yourself.

I have never voted in Ireland and am unaffiliated with any leanings but I believe that the last decade has produced the least political corruption in the history of the state, which is reason enough to back the incumbent.

Imagine Ireland is Nigeria and the Nigerian's have in the recent past had little news in terms of major scandals, which were regular occurances under other recent regimes. They have an election between a party promising more money/housing for the poor and nationalistic endeavours such as annexing occupied land....... and the stable one in power. Who would you advise the Nigerians to vote for?

I would rather have a seemingly boring ineffective proven option than one who makes promises they cannot keep and has proven nothing through action simply because the latter is very likely to be corrupt.

The Bishop Basher

joseywhales wrote: »

I would rather have a seemingly boring ineffective proven option than one who makes promises they cannot keep and has proven nothing through action simply because the latter is very likely to be corrupt.

Successive “Boring and ineffective” governments are slowly destroying our country and those boring and ineffective governments also make promises they have no intention of keeping. Just look at every election promise FG has made over the last 10 years. Keeping them in power indefinitely because we’re too afraid to try the other options is no longer a viable alternative for many of us. People are voting SF not because they support them or their policies but out of sheer desperation and a desire to see a government in Ireland that actually works for the good of its citizens.

elfy4eva

FF/FG are really stuck between a rock and a hard place here. On the one hand if they jump into bed together they will be ripe picking for Sinn Fein opposition. But on the other hand if they avoid a coalition they risk more jumping on the Sinn Fein bandwagon in a re-run of the election.

Dozyart

Fred Cryton wrote: »

SF are an unholy alliance of provo sympathisers, welfare heads from inner Dublin and now young millennials completely brainwashed by their propaganda machine into thinking they'd get a free gaf.

This post sums up boards perfectly,and it is why it's hilarious reading the hysteria and salty tears in thread after thread from supposedly grown adults!!

I wish this happened years ago because it really is fun to read!!

Yurt2

joseywhales wrote: »

I would rather have a seemingly boring ineffective proven option than one who makes promises they cannot keep and has proven nothing through action simply because the latter is very likely to be corrupt.

This has me all sorts of confused. You opt for the the party that has been proven to be ineffective?

Talk about a tyranny of low standards.

Pawwed Rig

Yurt! wrote: »

This has me all sorts of confused. You opt for the the party that has been proven to be ineffective?

Talk about a tyranny of low standards.

It is the safe option. Yes things could be better but they could also be ALOT worse. Love them or hate them FG leave the country in a much better place than when they took over. The glaring failure has been the health service and their own PR.

prunudo

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Not really the "change" we keep hearing so much about

What does that even mean though, a simple slogan from the book of Cummings or Trump. Drain the swap, take back control, get Brexit done etc. Simple one liners that could apply to any and everyone.
Fact is, despite what social media and online comment pages would lead us to believe, SF are still toxic, 75% of those who voted, didn't vote SF and given the reactions of a number of their TD's to their victories, they won't win the doubters minds too easily either.

joseywhales

Yurt! wrote: »

This has me all sorts of confused. You opt for the the party that has been proven to be ineffective?

Talk about a tyranny of low standards.

"Seemingly" (rather than "proven")being the key word, it remains to be proven that they have been ineffective. They have not solved some very difficult issues like housing and health which have been enduring issues since the celtic tiger era. Health is an issue in the UK,US,Canada etc, in every election in recent history, no one is going to satisfy everyone on health, it is already the major cost.

"the tyranny of low standards", well they are the most successfull government in the history of the state, seeing as they have not been majorily corrupt or started trade wars with the UK, been caught gun running or bankrupt the state. Literally the best government, they only had to break even. We are still a highly developed economy with average infrastructure and very cheap education and health costs. While homelessness is never acceptable, lets bear in mind that homelessness exists in the rest of the developed world and in the case of the US rampant homelessness in every city. The average standard of living in Ireland is good. Also consider that Ireland has nothing of much value to export beyond services and added value products in multinational companies and must import almost all of its energy and raw materials. I think it has not been managed terribly. The expectations are out of sync here.

Nevermind the legacy pensions issue, as the average life expectancy increases, ironically due to our increased access to healthcare. There's no way to win, apart from bulll****ting apparently.

suicide_circus

didnt vote for them but i think SF have to be allowed a turn at the top table.

however i do understand why FFG wont go in with them

Yurt2

joseywhales wrote: »

well they are the most successfull government in the history of the state,

That's a jaw dropping comment to insert there. I fully recommend that FG run that as their election tagline.

Annasopra

Long_Wave wrote: »

It's perfectly simple, FF+FG+ FF/FG genepool "independents" would have a stable majority 5 year government. Martin would be Taoiseach, Varadkar Tiste & minister for Finance, McGrath Public expenditure, Covney stays in foreign affairs, Murphy and Harris replaced by new FF ministers. If the people decide in spring 2025 to give SF and the left an overall majority, well that's democracy.

Mattie McGrath?

Long_Wave

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Mattie McGrath?

For public expenditure? No, I mean Micheal the FF finance spokesperson.

Edgware

dxhound2005 wrote: »

This post demonstrates like others have done, that no party should go into government. All they get in return is an almighty kick in the behind at the next election.

It must be the modern way. Back when Bertie was running the show, he got in three times in a row.

Ah those were the days when we could make decent money. It's all accountability and " everyone pay their fair share" now