What to replace a Leaf 24kWh with? An Ioniq?

quenching

I'm toying with the idea of replacing our 141 D Leaf 24 kWh and am open to suggestions to what is best.

Current car:

• 141 Leaf Acenta
• 11 Bars
• 102k km
• NCT to Jan 22

Whats this car worth?

The car covers about 14k km per year, mostly local commuter stuff (very little motorway). Rarely more that 50km per day but an increase in range for weekend daytrips would be handy as these are becoming more regular, but I have an Outlander PHEV for longer journeys when needed.

So what should I consider buying?

If I buy an Ioniq:

• Is the charging plug the same? I have a tethered charge point that currently fits the Leaf and the Outlander. I think the Ioniq is different, can I get an adapter to fit the current tethered cable?
• Is the Ioniq boot bigger that the Leaf?
• Is the rear passenger space bigger/smaller than the Leaf (growing teenagers)?
• What the realistic range of a 2017 Ioniq compared to the Leaf? 50% more?
• Any particular trim level to aim for on an Ioniq?

I'm not that keen on a newer Leaf, if I'm changing the car I'd like a proper change. Unless there's a good reason not to of course.

Maybe a new eGolf would work out better in the long run? Total cost of ownership is key here, I'm happy to buy a newer car if the long term costs are similar to an older one.

Being able to preheat the car in the morning is more or less essential.

jusmeig

I'm selling my 28kwh Ioniq wonder machine.
Really low mileage and mint.

PM me if ya want to know more. I'm open to negotiation

jusmeig

If I buy an Ioniq -> Answers below

• Is the charging plug the same? I have a tethered charge point that currently fits the Leaf and the Outlander. I think the Ioniq is different, can I get an adapter to fit the current tethered cable?
  
  Its Type 2? If its type 2, all good.
  
  
• Is the Ioniq boot bigger that the Leaf?
  
  My mate owns a Leaf, I would say comparible if not a bit bigger. Its a hatchback with a large opening for loading.
  
  
  
• Is the rear passenger space bigger/smaller than the Leaf (growing teenagers)?
  
  Ioniq is not a small car, its a little smaller than the A4 I used to have which Ironically had crap space in the back.
  
  
• What the realistic range of a 2017 Ioniq compared to the Leaf? 50% more?
  
  This will cause some debate. The Ioniq is a much more efficient car:
  
  I never drive over 120km (usually 110km). I also dont go into the last 10% buffer.
  Winter -> 140 - 160km
  Summer -> 200 - 220km
  
  
• Any particular trim level to aim for on an Ioniq?
  
  I think we all go the same for 2018, there was one fairly high but not the highest spec. Lane keep assist and all that.
  

Black_Knight

If I buy an Ioniq -> Answers below

• Is the charging plug the same? I have a tethered charge point that currently fits the Leaf and the Outlander. I think the Ioniq is different, can I get an adapter to fit the current tethered cable?
  
  Both should be type 2. The rapid charger connection is CCS vs the Leafs CHAdeMO.
  
• Is the Ioniq boot bigger that the Leaf?
  
  I've not to compare, but I think the leaf is technically bigger, though I think the Ioniq has a larger boot floor space.
  
  
• Is the rear passenger space bigger/smaller than the Leaf (growing teenagers)?
  
  Sorry, no experience of a leaf (or much of the back of my car)
  
  
• What the realistic range of a 2017 Ioniq compared to the Leaf? 50% more?
  
  I've a short commute, up a hill, and I hammer it there and back. My efficiency is at 16.6kWh/100km these days. Gives me an estimated range around 170km. I've done longer trips recently with better efficiency (160km and had about 20-30km range left over - heating set to 19.5, no compromises).
  Summer weather could drop that usage down to around 14-15kWh/100km given my commute (200km range), and less usage again on longer drives (210-220km at 100km/hr).
  
• Any particular trim level to aim for on an Ioniq?
  
  Typically they're all the same trim, unless they're from the UK, in which case they can come with heated rear seats, blind spot detection, leather seats, heated steering wheel and front sensors. Overpriced Mooneys have such an example in at the moment, though not as overpriced as the usually are.
  
  2019 Ioniq came with a heated steering wheel as standard I believe. That is the main upgrade you'll see between 2017/18 ioniqs and 2019 ioniqs.
  
  2020 ioniq got a facelift and a bigger battery giving it maybe 20% more range than the first version, but at what is agreed to be a ridiculously high price. It also rapid charges at about 66% the rate of the Ioniq 28.

JPA

Leaf and Outlander use a Type 1 connection, you'll need an adaptor.

Mickeroo

Far as I'm aware leaf is a bit bigger than the Ioniq in terms of boot and rear seating space.

I think there's also a possibility the 2014 leaf has a type 1 charging port rather than a type 2 so would need an adapter? (presumably it's type 2 if it has the 6.6kw on board charger and type 1 if it has the 3.3kw).

JPA

Mickeroo wrote: »

Far as I'm aware leaf is a bit bigger than the Ioniq in terms of boot and rear seating space.

I think there's also a possibility the 2014 leaf has a type 1 charging port rather than a type 2 so would need an adapter? (presumably it's type 2 if it has the 6.6kw on board charger and type 1 if it has the 3.3kw).

40 kWh leaf and after has type 2. Before that has Type 1.

KCross

quenching wrote: »

Current car:

• 141 Leaf Acenta
• 11 Bars
• 102k km
• NCT to Jan 22

Whats this car worth?

Ballpark... €9k

• Is the charging plug the same? I have a tethered charge point that currently fits the Leaf and the Outlander. I think the Ioniq is different, can I get an adapter to fit the current tethered cable?

Different. Leaf and Outlander are Type 1. Most other cars are Type 2.
Not sure if there is an adaptor to go from type 1 to type 2 at the car end.
Maybe get a second charge point since you have two EV's?

quenching wrote: »

Being able to preheat the car in the morning is more or less essential.

Ioniq doesnt have an app like the Leaf so you will lose some capability but I believe you can pre-heat via a set timer (ioniq owners can confirm)... not as good as having an app but if all you use is a set timer in the Leaf anyway maybe that will do you in the Ioniq too.... is your departure time the same every day?

Mickeroo

KCross wrote: »

Ioniq doesnt have an app like the Leaf so you will lose some capability but I believe you can pre-heat via a set timer (ioniq owners can confirm)... not as good as having an app but if all you use is a set timer in the Leaf anyway maybe that will do you in the Ioniq too.... is your departure time the same every day?

You can but the car has to be plugged in.

KCross

Mickeroo wrote: »

You can but the car has to be plugged in.

OK, much the same as the leaf in that regard (i.e. timer only works when plugged in, which makes sense) but the Leaf has the added ability to remotely activate heating via the app and it runs for a set 15mins (if not plugged in). Very useful!

I use it alot of days when leaving work (which varies in time so a set timer is no good). Once I know the time I'm leaving I can set a time on the app and the car will heat at that time.

Every EV should have that. I would miss that.

Black_Knight

KCross wrote: »

OK, much the same as the leaf in that regard (i.e. timer only works when plugged in, which makes sense) but the Leaf has the added ability to remotely activate heating via the app and it runs for a set 15mins (if not plugged in). Very useful!

I use it alot of days when leaving work (which varies in time so a set timer is no good). Once I know the time I'm leaving I can set a time on the app and the car will heat at that time.

Every EV should have that. I would miss that.

Probably one of those "I wouldnt be bothered about that, but if i had it, id never live without it" situations. for me it was a reversing camera. Now its being electric.

quenching

Thanks folks, all queries helpfully answered. Now I just need to work out the numbers!

ei9go

JPA wrote: »

Leaf and Outlander use a Type 1 connection, you'll need an adaptor.

Don't buy an adaptor just change the cable.

kennethsmyth

ei9go wrote: »

Don't buy an adaptor just change the cable.

Yep but outlander (the other car they have) is also type 1.

I would however recommend changing cable to type 2 if charger is a 32amp one and not a 16amp. And then getting the adapter for the outlander (type 2 to type 1).

This way the car that is plugged in the most is the easiest to do daily and the adapter is only for the outlander.

If the charge point is only 16amp then i would leave alone until you are changing charge point to 32amp (then get the type 2) and get a type 1 to type 2 adapter.

quenching

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Yep but outlander (the other car they have) is also type 1.

I would however recommend changing cable to type 2 if charger is a 32amp one and not a 16amp. And then getting the adapter for the outlander (type 2 to type 1).

This way the car that is plugged in the most is the easiest to do daily and the adapter is only for the outlander.

If the charge point is only 16amp then i would leave alone until you are changing charge point to 32amp (then get the type 2) and get a type 1 to type 2 adapter.

Excellent idea, thanks. The charge point I have also has a 3pin socket that I use with the granny cable for the Outlander, its rarely plugged into the tethered cable.

Zenith74

I’m in the same predicament - two 24kWh Leaf family, could do with some more range for the odd longer distance journey (preferably a decent bump in range, not like 20-30% more :-) ). Ideally would like more boot space, definitely not less, but Tesla/Audi/iPace out of price range. Am tech/comfort mad, so needs to be a Tekna/SVE level spec.

Have done a lot of teeth gnashing over it and kinda conclude that my best option is a 181 Leaf40, keep it for a couple of years and maybe swap then to one of the 60kWh cars (M3/Kia etc) that should then have come down in the secondhand market.

To be fair I do love the Leaf, but not really delighted to be changing to another one which still has CHAdeMO and worse battery degradation than other modern designs.

Will an Ioniq take a large buggy and lots of bags to go on holidays? I presume a Leaf40 has more range in most scenarios (I’m totally OK with 100km/h on motorways) though? A low mileage 181 Leaf40 SVE is likely to cost €23-25k.

grudgehugger

I'm a happy L40 owner (33k km on the clock) - would just caution you against expecting too massive a range increase. I know very little about L24 but I'm guessing you'll see at most a 50-70% range improvement with L40.

I've been driving Greystones to Athlone a few times recently (160km) and can just about make it on a 100% charge (driving 105km/h max). Would make it with more to spare in Summer for sure

Black_Knight

Zenith74 wrote: »

I’m in the same predicament - two 24kWh Leaf family, could do with some more range for the odd longer distance journey (preferably a decent bump in range, not like 20-30% more :-) ). Ideally would like more boot space, definitely not less, but Tesla/Audi/iPace out of price range. Am tech/comfort mad, so needs to be a Tekna/SVE level spec.

Have done a lot of teeth gnashing over it and kinda conclude that my best option is a 181 Leaf40, keep it for a couple of years and maybe swap then to one of the 60kWh cars (M3/Kia etc) that should then have come down in the secondhand market.

To be fair I do love the Leaf, but not really delighted to be changing to another one which still has CHAdeMO and worse battery degradation than other modern designs.

Will an Ioniq take a large buggy and lots of bags to go on holidays? I presume a Leaf40 has more range in most scenarios (I’m totally OK with 100km/h on motorways) though? A low mileage 181 Leaf40 SVE is likely to cost €23-25k.

My Ioniq takes our Uppababy Vista buggy (one of the widest out there) no problem. The 3 of us went to center parcs with the buggy, suitcase for us, bag for the little one (14 months old at the time), box of toys (this box), a bag or 2 of groceries/snacks, my longer charging cable (its bulky enough), 3pin charging cable, and other bits and bobs (jackets, boots etc.). I did remove the rear wheels from the buggy so it lay flatter, but that's a 2 second job on the vista.

Think all that when into the boot. Maybe the jackets were in the back seat.

Zenith74

grudgehugger wrote: »

I'm a happy L40 owner (33k km on the clock) - would just caution you against expecting too massive a range increase. I know very little about L24 but I'm guessing you'll see at most a 50-70% range improvement with L40.

I've been driving Greystones to Athlone a few times recently (160km) and can just about make it on a 100% charge (driving 105km/h max). Would make it with more to spare in Summer for sure

Thanks! Realistically you get 90-100km on the motorway in the current weather from a Leaf24. So yeah 160km is still not the best in the world, but it would be a noticeable bump for us, we quite rarely use the car for long journies anyway.

@Black_Knight - Randomly I've got the same buggy and what kicked off the plan to change was a drive down to Centre Parcs recently where making it on one charge would make a huge difference. So in these winter conditions, what range would you get on the Ioniq? Spec wise do you happen to know if it's similar to the likes of the Leaf40 (leather, heated everything, lane-keeping etc)?

Looks like you could buy a 2018 Ioniq Premium SE or Leaf40 Tekna from the UK for similar money at the moment. Maybe I need to go take one for a spin...

Black_Knight

Zenith74 wrote: »

Thanks! Realistically you get 90-100km on the motorway in the current weather from a Leaf24. So yeah 160km is still not the best in the world, but it would be a noticeable bump for us, we quite rarely use the car for long journies anyway.

@Black_Knight - Randomly I've got the same buggy and what kicked off the plan to change was a drive down to Centre Parcs recently where making it on one charge would make a huge difference. So in these winter conditions, what range would you get on the Ioniq? Spec wise do you happen to know if it's similar to the likes of the Leaf40 (leather, heated everything, lane-keeping etc)?

Looks like you could buy a 2018 Ioniq Premium SE or Leaf40 Tekna from the UK for similar money at the moment. Maybe I need to go take one for a spin...

This weather, did a cork to dungarvan to cork last weekend. Think I got home with 20-30km range left I think. So 180-190km range at <100km/hr speeds.

Spec wise, Irish ones are all the same up to 2019. 2019 will have a heated steering wheel.
Standard is heated front seats, no leather, lane keep assist, adaptive cruise control.

UK spec premium se model (I think) have leather all over, heated rear seats, heated steering wheel and blind spot detection.

FYI. Chargers in center parcs at right at the back. Near the spa

babybuilder

I've a leaf 40 and my wife and I both love it. It's a 182 SV premium. The only thing it doesn't have is leather seats, propilot and electronic handbrake. It's got 35k km done and 95% SOC. Nice to drive and the interior is nice tho not luxurious (better than Mark 1 Ioniq I think). It has been very reliable. According to some ev enthusiasts the leaf is the incarnation of Satan himself. You won't have to wait long on on a leaf as there are plenty available. The leaf 62 is criminally expensive, has passive cooling and IMO is not worth the money. We are thinking of changing the leaf in August. Might go for another L40. The Korean cars are also over priced and like hen's teeth.

Stealthirl

Zenith74 wrote: »

Have done a lot of teeth gnashing over it and kinda conclude that my best option is a 181 Leaf40, keep it for a couple of years and maybe swap then to one of the 60kWh cars (M3/Kia etc) that should then have come down in the secondhand market.

I have the same conclusion although SVE L40's still seam to be in the high 20s her/mid 20s in the UK. for a few grand more you'd have a brand new one. Only current car that appeals to me is the e-Soul and thats out of my price range unless i keep it 5 years.
Im just watching L40 SVE's and if the right one comes up i might just go for it. But until then ill let the savings build up and maybe i can afford a Tesla model Y or I.D. Buzz when they eventually get here in 2-3 years

Zenith74

Stealthirl wrote: »

I have the same conclusion although SVE L40's still seam to be in the high 20s her/mid 20s in the UK. for a few grand more you'd have a brand new one. Only current car that appeals to me is the e-Soul and thats out of my price range unless i keep it 5 years.
Im just watching L40 SVE's and if the right one comes up i might just go for it. But until then ill let the savings build up and maybe i can afford a Tesla model Y or I.D. Buzz when they eventually get here in 2-3 years

Yeah they're holding their value extremely well. I know this is a great thing for EVs in general, but I miss the days of them plummeting as they were driven off the showroom floor so you and I could pick them up cheap secondhand :rolleyes:.

I did have the thought about just buying a new one yesterday, if you bought a banger and took the €3k scrappage, a L40SVE would be costing you around €31k, compared to spending €25k on a 2 year old one. Ultimately the cost of a car is not what the sticker price is, but the value it loses each year, and by that metric you'd be driving a brand new car for the same 'cost' as a two year old one...

Which then got me thinking about the e-niro, maybe just jump straight to that rather than having a Leaf for two years and then swapping. Real shame Kia aren't doing the 0% finance on the e-Niro or that might do it for me...

unkel

Zenith74 wrote: »

Yeah they're holding their value extremely well. I know this is a great thing for EVs in general, but I miss the days of them plummeting as they were driven off the showroom floor so you and I could pick them up cheap seconhand :rolleyes:.

Yet the common misconception of EVs depreciating terribly persists. The only ever EV that depreciated badly was the original Leaf. And its depreciation (although fierce in the first few years) later stalled and partly undid itself (its value went up as the car got older)

Most other budget EVs that came out later, like the Ioniq, have had ridiculously low depreciation since new.