Aupair

happylad

Hi

Just wondering on peoples experiences with aupairs. We are thinking of looking into it. We presently have 4 kids ranging 10 to 3 and have another fast approaching. We both work also and have the lads with a child minder.

We are thinking of getting an aupair for minding the kids and light house hold duties this eliminating our present child care. My wife is looking at reducing her hours also.

I see you can be a host family. What kind of money would an aupair generally get assuming they have bed and board.

Just wanted to see what peoples experiences are.

Thanks

farmchoice

we did the au pair thing for a couple of years and have friends who did it for longer 5/6 years.
by and large we found it a very positive experience. it is often described as a cultural exchange and in reality this is exactly what it is. it is not a type of employment and the relationship you will have with your au pair is not that of employer and employee.


there are a lot of people out there who think they are getting cheap child care and treat it like that. this leads to endless problems and on occasion leads you to a court case that you will lose.

generally it works like this, you get a girl who wants to come to Ireland to learn english and experience the culture and have a good time. usually these are Europeans, french, Spanish and German being the most common.
they are usually young, 18,19,20.
as a rule you provide them with bed and board and give them, ''pocket money'' and in return they mind the kids 5 days a week and you also get a night or two babysitting, they will also do light house work. the amount of pocket money varies from house to house. i have heard of people paying 100 a week and even less but we always paid 150 a week, the girls we had all drove and i put them on the insurance, this cost a fortune but it suited us as they did the odd pick up, but it was mainly because we live out of town and if she didn't drive herself i would have been on the road day and night dropping them here and there.
now here is the thing, you are getting an 18 year old form a different country who is away from home for the fist time and speaks very little english. they think they are very grown up and independent and of course they know it all, think of yourself at 18.

in reality they are scared, homesick, clueless kids. they need to be looked after and minded and taken care of.

they will go out drinking with the other au pairs and then they will fall out with said au pairs and cry about it. they will fight with their boyfriends back home and cry about it and they will miss their mothers and cry about it. then said boyfriends and mothers will arrive over to your house to visit them.
they will disappear for the weekends and you will wonder if they are ok. they will tell you how to run your house and mind your kids even though they know nothing about anything.

of course it all depends on who you get, but the girls we had were lovely intelligent respectful Spanish girls who years later we are still in touch with.
the first girl was quite old for an au pair she was 23 but had pretty much no english, despite this she was absolutely fabulous, never gave us a bit of bother in any way she worked hard with her english did above and beyond what was asked and i would have trusted her with anything.
the second girl was 18, better english, but a lot less mature which is understandable there is a big difference between 18 and 23. she too was bright and capable. a bit lazier then the first girl and a LOT more drama, drama about everything, drama over the kids, drama over her friends, drama over her mother, drama over her fella, drama, over the bus to dublin, over Dublin etc etc.
despite all that we really enjoyed it, by and large, it was a great solution to our child care needs at the time and the kids loved it. our little girl was around 3 when we got the first girl and when my wife came home from work at 3.00pm she would often find our lady, the au pair and the baby all asleep in the living room, it was siesta time you see.

but it is full on you have someone living with you and they are very much part of the family.
a few tips i would suggest if you do get one. get a European girl, closer to home, less cultural shock, less likely to be using this as a way to make an few pound to send home to her family.

the older the better up to about 23/24, older than that they are going to be a lot older than the other local au pairs and it can cause issues with having friends.
if you can get a girl who has a friend au pairing locally great it really eases the transition although later on they will repeatedly fall out which causes its own issues but by then its all a bit of craic.

i would have done it for longer but my wife had enough after 2 years. she had much more of a problem with someone else living with us, i didn't mind. it is wearing though you definitely get sick of it.
friends of ours did it for 5 years and by they end they were really sick of it.


if you have any questions fire away!!

pwurple

First of all, it's not a cheap option if that's your motivation. It is consistent care giver though and we got on great with the girls, they are still buddies. We had au pairs for years, and they were all real dotes of girls (except one oddball). 20 hours a week max is the childcare, 4 afternoon hours a day for the 5 days, so make sure you're still using ECCE plus top up, and they have the mornings off etc .

You include them as a big sister type of role. Going to the cinema with the kids, bring her along too. out for a family dinner, include them. Parties, holidays etc. Make sure they have their own space to get away from ye all, a room ideally en suite.

It's a lovely experience for the children too, they learn a bit of another language too.

farmchoice

this thread has got me thinking about some of the stuff that happened!! it really was great craic at times.

one thing we did not think about was the whole social media world. the first girl did seemed to have about as much interest in it as we did.... not a lot.
the second one though considered her self a bit of a wannabe influencer,(this is a few years ago so it was just getting going, she had to explain to me what an influencer was).

you'd be sitting watching the tv of a night or whatever and you might pick up your phone for a look at instagram, next thing there would be a picture of yer wan half naked lying on a bed with some idiotic quote that was supposed to be all cryptic and meaningful. Then you would see it was posted 3 minutes ago and look there was your wall paper in the background. ya, she was in the spare room takings pictures of her back from it seemsd the top of the wardrobe and sharing them with her 3000 followers.

AulWan

AuPairs are considered domestic workers and as such, are entitled to minimum wage per hour. Any one who tells you different is setting you up for a court case.

There is no cultural exchange programme in Ireland, that allows you to take someone into your home and pay them "pocket money" while they mind your kids. If they are working in your home, they are an employee. There was a WRC case taken about this a few years ago.

See Migrant Rights Centre Ireland - FAQ https://www.mrci.ie/employment/
If you are a live-in Au Pair or Domestic you are entitled to the national minimum wage but board and lodging rate is allowed to be deducted from your pay:

For board (food) only: €0.90 per hour worked (calculation at an hourly rate)
For lodging (accommodation) only: €23.86 for accommodation only per week or €3.42 per day
For more information please see:

https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/what_you_should_know/employment_types/domestic-workers/

farmchoice

AulWan wrote: »

AuPairs are considered domestic workers and as such, are entitled to minimum wage per hour. Any one who tells you different is setting you up for a court case.

There is no cultural exchange programme in Ireland, that allows you to take someone into your home and pay them "pocket money" while they mind your kids. If they are working in your home, they are an employee. There was a WRC case taken about this a few years ago.

See https://www.mrci.ie/employment/
If you are a live-in Au Pair or Domestic you are entitled to the national minimum wage but board and lodging rate is allowed to be deducted from your pay:

For board (food) only: €0.90 per hour worked (calculation at an hourly rate)
For lodging (accommodation) only: €23.86 for accommodation only per week or €3.42 per day
For more information please see:

https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/what_you_should_know/employment_types/domestic-workers/

indeed, it is not an official state of affairs. there is really no such thing as an au pair. the reality though is that there are thousands of girls in thousands of houses in Ireland doing just what we have described above.
if it was to be regularized it would be of no benefit to the young women and no benefit to the families so it continues on as it is, ''off the books''.
this can be a dangerous position for someone to put themselves in because it leaves you open to be accused of exploitation. and if you exlpoit someone this this is exactly what should happen to you.


however if you dont exploit anyone and everyone is happy with the arrangement then you wont have a problem, as has been the case for tens of thousands of girls and families over the last 40 years or more.

for a start when it comes to the pocket money give on the high side not the low side. although it will mean that they usually have more money to spend on Saturday night then you do, see more of Ireland then you do drink more then you do and travel around Europe more then you do!!

GaGa21

Yes, Au Pairs are not full time childcare solutions. The morning or the afternoon helping hand, fine. A night time babysitter occasionally, yes. But that's about it.
I think a young girl would find it very hard to mind 4 or 5 kids. Are you thinking as a mother's help?

AulWan

farmchoice wrote: »

indeed, it is not an official state of affairs. there is really no such thing as an au pair. the reality though is that there are thousands of girls in thousands of houses in Ireland doing just what we have described above.
if it was to be regularized it would be of no benefit to the young women and no benefit to the families so it continues on as it is, ''off the books''.
this can be a dangerous position for someone to put themselves in because it leaves you open to be accused of exploitation. and if you exlpoit someone this this is exactly what should happen to you.

however if you dont exploit anyone and everyone is happy with the arrangement then you wont have a problem, as has been the case for tens of thousands of girls and families over the last 40 years or more.

for a start when it comes to the pocket money give on the high side not the low side. although it will mean that they usually have more money to spend on Saturday night then you do, see more of Ireland then you do drink more then you do and travel around Europe more then you do!!

I would never advise someone to put themselves on the wrong side of the law.

If someone wants to take that risk, thats up to them, but go into it knowing that what you are doing is illegal, that paying someone less than their legal entitlement to minimum wage IS exploitation, (no matter how you try to justify the "benefits") and there is a very real possibility that you could end up in the WRC with a claim for unpaid wages against you.

If you go into it knowing all the above, fire away! It's on your own head.

CheerLouth

We are in a similar boat, OP, only with slightly less children My husband travels a lot for work so I'm looking for an Au Pair just for the summer months this year. We'll have a new small baby so I'm hoping we can find someone who will be willing to help me with the other two. I'm going to be at home on Mat Leave for the summer so I don't see them as a full time child minder. I'm hoping it will be more of a "big sister" situation in that she'll play with the eldest two and come with us on days out etc. From my own perspective, I think just trialing having an au pair for the summer will be good to see how we manage as a family with someone else living with us before we consider anything longer term.

Plumbthedepths

An 'au pair' does not exist in the way people once thought of it. That is cheap childcare.
You are an employer and as such subject to employment law around minimum pay, taxation, prsi contributions etc.
Fall foul of these and it will get very expensive very fast.

farmchoice

CheerLouth wrote: »

We are in a similar boat, OP, only with slightly less children My husband travels a lot for work so I'm looking for an Au Pair just for the summer months this year. We'll have a new small baby so I'm hoping we can find someone who will be willing to help me with the other two. I'm going to be at home on Mat Leave for the summer so I don't see them as a full time child minder. I'm hoping it will be more of a "big sister" situation in that she'll play with the eldest two and come with us on days out etc. From my own perspective, I think just trialing having an au pair for the summer will be good to see how we manage as a family with someone else living with us before we consider anything longer term.

ya worth looking into alright, the only thing ill say is that they can require a good bit of dropping off and picking up in the evenings. if you are in a city or town this is less of a problem but if you are outside a town this could be a pain in the arse on you own with a baby. they tend to like meeting up with other au pairs a lot and then there is english classes etc. remember even though you might consider yourself young and hip to them you will be as old as the hills and they will want to socialize with their peers.

happylad

Thanks farmchoice for the advice and guidance. Also looking at you post if nothing else it kept things interesting about the place. Lol
We are just looking to see if we could perhaps make things a bit easier for ourselves instead of rushing around the place trying to drop them to childminders in the morn. We live out in the country so we would need to look at them driving also but

happylad

Thanks everyone for the replys it great to see the different experiences and advice as it is a big step to take to trust someone else with the lads and bring for want of a better description as stranger into the house

happylad

GaGa21 wrote: »

Yes, Au Pairs are not full time childcare solutions. The morning or the afternoon helping hand, fine. A night time babysitter occasionally, yes. But that's about it.
I think a young girl would find it very hard to mind 4 or 5 kids. Are you thinking as a mother's help?

Yes it would be to help us out. My wife would reduce her hours to 8 to 3 so the 3 kids would be in national school and finish at 3 and the 2 youngest. 1 would be at preschool for half the day and the other would be at home full time. They are under 2 years old

whippet

we had a German Aupair a few years back for a year.

As mentioned before - it was like having an older sister for the kids for a year with all the drama of having an 18 year old daughter.

In reality is was the very bare minimum of child minding that she did and apart from cooking the odd childs meal and helping with the dishes there was no household duties.

my wife works from home and I would have been at home a couple of days of the week so it really was just doing the school run and occupying them for the couple of hours between end of school and office hours.

We had he on the car insurance, family gym / swim membership and in essence she was treated like a member of the family. We gave her a decent allowance and she spent most weekends off exploring ireland. We were lucky that she didn't drink or smoke and was as pleasant as could be.

She fell in love with ireland and visits us 3-4 times a year since, and has made a lot of irish friends - we have also spent time with her family in Germany and it has been great.

It is a decent option if suitable - but it really is like having another family member !! She also gave us stories about some of her friends who were her in ireland who ended up like live in slaves .... i'd like to think things have changed but there are far too many people willing to abuse the system and see it as cheap child minding

whippet

happylad wrote: »

Yes it would be to help us out. My wife would reduce her hours to 8 to 3 so the 3 kids would be in national school and finish at 3 and the 2 youngest. 1 would be at preschool for half the day and the other would be at home full time. They are under 2 years old

that sounds like full time hours right there for an au pair - 7 hours a day for 5 days a week

AulWan

What you are describing is not suited to the role of an aupair (for want of a better description).

An aupair is a young person meant to do no more then 25 hours per week. Yet you say you expect some household duties as well?

Even considering just the youngest child on their own, its basically a full time childcare role - 8am to 3pm is a 7 hour day.

What you are looking for is a full time nanny / housekeeper. That will cost a lot more than minimum wage.

Plumbthedepths

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

An 'au pair' does not exist in the way people once thought of it. That is cheap childcare.
You are an employer and as such subject to employment law around minimum pay, taxation, prsi contributions etc.
Fall foul of these and it will get very expensive very fast.

From what I have seen/heard it certainly still exists it's just kept quiet. The accommodation, meals and a bit of pocket money type setup is still alive and well and its hard to blame anyone doing it. The official route is far to costly for people who go down this route to save money.

zapper55

Thankfully exploitation has reduced since this well publicised case https://www.thejournal.ie/au-pair-employment-law-2648083-Mar2016/?amp=1

More info on legal rates available here https://kangarooaupair.com/ie/news

I always thought it was disgusting that parents were using foreign exchange girls like this with the justification that they are paying for bed and board.

Plumbthedepths

Reign Squeaking Tinfoil wrote: »

From what I have seen/heard it certainly still exists it's just kept quiet. The accommodation, meals and a bit of pocket money type setup is still alive and well and its hard to blame anyone doing it. The official route is far to costly for people who go down this route to save money.

Best for those engaged in the practice that the 'au pair' doesn't suddenly become aware of their rights which has happened in the past.
I have no problems blaming anyone engaged in exploitation of another person which is what you have described.

pwurple

Agree with above, that's not an au pair, it's a full time nanny you're looking for.

Just to add I’m not saying I agree with exploiting but I feel there should be a middle ground between this full employer responsibility and the costs associated and having a slave.

Cakerbaker

Reign Squeaking Tinfoil wrote: »

Just to add I’m not saying I agree with exploiting but I feel there should be a middle ground between this full employer responsibility and the costs associated and having a slave.

I think a lot of the problem is that the original format which was 20 hours a week, pretty much drop the kids to school, pick them up and mind them till the parents came home is now abused by a lot of parents to provide fulltime childcare, 40/50 hours a week. That was never supposed to be the role of an au pair, if you need that you need a nanny. The amount of ads you see looking for a “live out au pair”! If they don’t live in your house they’re not an au pair, they’re a nanny.

Neyite

Reign Squeaking Tinfoil wrote: »

Just to add I’m not saying I agree with exploiting but I feel there should be a middle ground between this full employer responsibility and the costs associated and having a slave.

There are many middle ground options. But when you try to combine housework and meal prep with quality childcare as a full time child care option it's not going to be cheap.



As well as that, he's looking into childcare & housework for a family that will have five children including a newborn. Any Au Pair who would agree to work then see the sheer volume of work they are expected to do for what's supposed to be 'pocket money' would probably quit on them after a few weeks thus leaving them in the lurch.

jlm29

I’ve got 4 kids, a baby, a toddler, a pre schooler and an 8 y.o.
So one less than the OP will have, but they say their oldest is 10, so that one is probably the least work, If my house is anything to go by. I’m on mat leave at the moment, and honestly, You’d have to offer me a lot of money to do this full time. The work is endless, and thankless! I don’t see how you could think anyone would do it, in a foreign country, for “pocket money”.

ted1

Reign Squeaking Tinfoil wrote: »

From what I have seen/heard it certainly still exists it's just kept quiet. The accommodation, meals and a bit of pocket money type setup is still alive and well and its hard to blame anyone doing it. The official route is far to costly for people who go down this route to save money.

Also for many Au Pairs they do it to learn the language and could not afford to come to Ireland to learn it with working as an Au Pair.

whippet

I heard some horror stories from my AuPair about the conditions that some of her peers were forced in to.

Even heard of a group of South American au pairs who were living in a Dublin backpackers hostel .. up at 6am to get to the family home .. get kids up .. fed dressed and out to school while looking after a infant in the family home .. do house work .. school run .. cook for whole family and then back to hostel at 7pm ... all for pocket money !!

ted1

whippet wrote: »

I heard some horror stories from my AuPair about the conditions that some of her peers were forced in to.

Even heard of a group of South American au pairs who were living in a Dublin backpackers hostel .. up at 6am to get to the family home .. get kids up .. fed dressed and out to school while looking after a infant in the family home .. do house work .. school run .. cook for whole family and then back to hostel at 7pm ... all for pocket money !!

If they are not living with the family then they are not Au Pairs.

AulWan

ted1 wrote: »

If they are not living with the family then they are not Au Pairs.

I've seen this advertised as a "demi-pair" or a "live-out au-pair".

For some reason, if the role is described using the terms au-pair, live out au-pair, or demi-pair then people think its legal to pay whatever they decide is appropriate "pocket money"

The bottom line is, once someone is working in your home on a regular basis (not just a once off or irregular babysitting the odd time), then minimum wage per hour applies.

Moonbeam

for 5 kids even paying the minimum wage+prsi etc works out cheap compared to creche.

Neyite

Moonbeam wrote: »

for 5 kids even paying the minimum wage+prsi etc works out cheap compared to creche.

It's a lot of work though for a minimum wage job though The OP has currently 4 kids aged 3-10, plus a baby on the way. An au-pair might work out well during his wife's maternity leave to help out with school runs, but as a full time option including housework when his wife is going back to work full time I don't think it's really a workable option for him. A high turnover of carers is disruptive to both parents but also to the children.