Falsely accused someone of theft in retail position

Hate Actually

I think this may be the end of me. It's security I'm in. The guy I replaced did this and as far as I know he was booted for that reason. They were two ladies from the travelling community I think. I expected the item to be in a box when they were exiting the store. I'd caught two people the previous day and got ahead of myself when I saw two travelers leaving the store like that. I asked a girl at the till if she'd served two people of that description and she said "no". I then went after them without asking the other person at the till. When I caught up to them and once they had showed me the receipt, one of them said "I'm going to a solicitor about you". They then went back into the store to complain to a manager about me. As far as I'm aware they said "this store is going down for the likes of this" to the manager.

If it was done to me I'd definitely be pursuing the matter. I've only spoken to my supervisor about it on the phone, but they're likely already looking for my replacement. The only argument I could possibly make would be that I am new in security and still learning. Possibly the dumbest thing I've ever done.

TwoMonthsOff

Do you work directly for the client or for a company?

I worked in that game for a few years, incidents like this usually end in dismissal of the security guard.

Hate Actually

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

Do you work directly for the client or for a company?

I worked in that game for a few years, incidents like this usually end in dismissal of the security guard.

The client outsource, so I'm working for the security company.

harr

Hate Actually wrote: »

I think this may be the end of me. It's security I'm in. The guy I replaced did this and as far as I know he was booted for that reason. They were two ladies from the travelling community I think. When they showed me the receipt one of them said "I'm going to a solicitor about you". They then went back into the store to complain to a manager about me. As far as I'm aware they said "this store is going down for the likes of this" to the manager.

If it was done to me I'd definitely be pursuing the matter. I haven't spoken to my supervisor yet about it, but they're likely already looking for my replacement. The only argument I could possibly make would be that I am new and learning.

If you made a mistake own up to it ... but be sure first it wasn’t a scam those girls were playing.
I have a friend who works in retail Security and he has seen incidences where one person would place an item in pocket while in the shop but doesn’t leave shop and puts the item back in another part of the shop while the second person purchased the same item and has receipt both leave the shop in the hope shop worker or security will follow them out and accuse them of theft only for them to produce proof of purchase.

Mysterypunter

Lots of tricks, mostly travellers involved, sad that this has happened, but when I was in this game the boss told me no arrests, no heroics. Worked with a Cockney who thought he was a cop, but I just observed, the law is not on your side, no deterrent to shoplifting.

leggo

Yeah sorry dude. I worked in security for over 12 years and would train lads, I hate to tell you but this is worst case scenario stuff. You never ask someone for a receipt, you only approach them once they’ve left the premises and you’re 100% certain (learn ASCONE by heart if you plan to stay working in the field) they have stuff on them to the point that you know exactly where it is. When you approach them you inform them of why you’re approaching them and give them instructions to return to the store, then you recite their rights and get information in as professional manner as the situation will allow. I could tell you horror stories of lads who got it right and still ended up getting legal action taken against them for tiny mistakes, it’s such a minefield and there’s absolutely zero margin for error.

Where I’d go from here is asking your boss for email clarification on if any measures will be taken. Try make them commit and give you a written reason if they do decide to dismiss you, your only advantage is that most security companies are poorly run and HR gaffes like this happen all the time, so they may cock up your dismissal. But they’re also somewhat aware of this and often back down once you put them in a corner. If they like you otherwise, they may just move you to another client. So you may be okay. But for god’s sake learn ASCONE by heart tonight, learn exactly what you can and can’t do and, if ever in doubt, let them go because the stress you’re feeling now is a consequence of acting rashly and getting it wrong.

leggo

Mysterypunter wrote: »

Lots of tricks, mostly travellers involved, sad that this has happened, but when I was in this game the boss told me no arrests, no heroics. Worked with a Cockney who thought he was a cop, but I just observed, the law is not on your side, no deterrent to shoplifting.

A lot of companies do that and appreciate lads who do it, but it’s a total cop out and a sign of awful standards. If someone comes in and steals something in front of your eyes and you let them walk, you’re not doing your job and are borderline complicit. Your job is to get it right, that’s a skill and requires effort, otherwise you’re just stealing a living that could instead be given to someone with a shred of work ethic.

Xwebstar

leggo wrote: »

Yeah sorry dude. I worked in security for over 12 years and would train lads, I hate to tell you but this is worst case scenario stuff. You never ask someone for a receipt, you only approach them once they’ve left the premises and you’re 100% certain (learn ASCONE by heart if you plan to stay working in the field) they have stuff on them to the point that you know exactly where it is. When you approach them you inform them of why you’re approaching them and give them instructions to return to the store, then you recite their rights and get information in as professional manner as the situation will allow. I could tell you horror stories of lads who got it right and still ended up getting legal action taken against them for tiny mistakes, it’s such a minefield and there’s absolutely zero margin for error.

Where I’d go from here is asking your boss for email clarification on if any measures will be taken. Try make them commit and give you a written reason if they do decide to dismiss you, your only advantage is that most security companies are poorly run and HR gaffes like this happen all the time, so they may cock up your dismissal. But they’re also somewhat aware of this and often back down once you put them in a corner. If they like you otherwise, they may just move you to another client. So you may be okay. But for god’s sake learn ASCONE by heart tonight, learn exactly what you can and can’t do and, if ever in doubt, let them go because the stress you’re feeling now is a consequence of acting rashly and getting it wrong.

Security doesn't recite people's rights

That's a Garda's job

Hate Actually

leggo wrote: »

Where I’d go from here is asking your boss for email clarification on if any measures will be taken. Try make them commit and give you a written reason if they do decide to dismiss you, your only advantage is that most security companies are poorly run and HR gaffes like this happen all the time, so they may cock up your dismissal.

You mean to say that I could refuse to be fired until I get a letter, in the hope that their HR will forget to write the letter, and then somehow everybody will forget that I was meant to be fired.

Not to mention the fact that I'm well aware of what the reason is, and it's a very good one. I was told many times not to stop anyone.

leggo

Xwebstar wrote: »

Security doesn't recite people's rights

That's a Garda's job

You don’t need to read full Miranda rights, but yes you do need to tell them why they’re being held and that they’re not obliged to say anything but what they say may be used against them. You’re arresting someone and denying them their liberty against their will, you have responsibilities and charges can be dropped if you don’t abide by them. You can’t just drag someone into a manager’s office and dump them there without explanation (though yes, bad officers will do this and worse. I once had a store security manager try order me to break someone’s fingers because he wouldn’t put down his phone).

Mysterypunter

leggo wrote: »

A lot of companies do that and appreciate lads who do it, but it’s a total cop out and a sign of awful standards. If someone comes in and steals something in front of your eyes and you let them walk, you’re not doing your job and are borderline complicit. Your job is to get it right, that’s a skill and requires effort, otherwise you’re just stealing a living that could instead be given to someone with a shred of work ethic.

I agree, but leaving home at 6:30, getting home at 9 pm, no travel expenses, 5 hours travel, wouldn't make me very motivated. **** work ethic, pay peanuts get monkeys. I put in a shift OK, but wasn't motivated. It was their way or go home

leggo

Hate Actually wrote: »

You mean to say that I could refuse to quite until I get a letter, in the hope that their HR will forget to write the letter, and then somehow everybody will forget that I was meant to be fired.

Not to mention the fact that I'm well aware of what the reason is, and it's a very good one. I was told many times not to stop anyone.

What? Why would you quit over this? That would make everyone else’s job so easy, then you’d be out of a job, likely get no reference and have to start from scratch without an income when you mightn’t even end up getting sacked from this. I’m giving you an option where you can have some control over whether you continue to work in this job by trying to make them play their hand before they’ve fully prepared. If they tell you that they’re not taking the matter further, then you can rest easy because if they go back on it you have a case for unfair dismissal.

Hate Actually

Hate Actually wrote: »

Not to mention the fact that I'm well aware of what the reason is, and it's a very good one. I was told many times not to stop anyone.

If you were told many times not to stop anyone, why did you ?

leggo

Mysterypunter wrote: »

I agree, but leaving home at 6:30, getting home at 9 pm, no travel expenses, 5 hours travel, wouldn't make me very motivated. **** work ethic, pay peanuts get monkeys. I put in a shift OK, but wasn't motivated. It was their way or go home

I hear what you’re saying but it really is what you make of it. I was happy to leave it and am much happier in my new gig, and trust me I dealt with a lot of ****tiness right up until my final day, but I don’t look back on it as that bad.

Do a good job, build strong relationships with clients, network with people within the industry so you’re aware of other opportunities that could come up...that builds you leverage you can use to get decent jobs in places you’re appreciated and happy. By the end of my time I worked close to 9-5, picked my days off, got paid at a higher rate than most if not all, and would work a couple of hours on a site and generally got approached about being there full time so had loads of options. Whereas yeah, the lads who’d show up and just collect a wage would often be put in crappy places on ridiculously long hours: that kills their moral and it feeds itself. But you can make it work for yourself with high pro-activity.

Mysterypunter

Deleted User wrote: »

If you were told many times not to stop anyone, why did you ?

Hard not to if someone is fleecing the place. Even if someone pays good money for an item, and then lifts a smaller item, it is still shoplifting, value of goods shouldn't matter, but I hate to see someone benefitting from a smartarse criminal act, and if it is your job to stop them, then do the job. I think in the case of the OP, it highlights the failings in the legal system. The OP was doing an honest job, but ends up the scapegoat.

Hate Actually

leggo wrote: »

What? Why would you quit over this? That would make everyone else’s job so easy, then you’d be out of a job, likely get no reference and have to start from scratch without an income when you mightn’t even end up getting sacked from this. I’m giving you an option where you can have some control over whether you continue to work in this job by trying to make them play their hand before they’ve fully prepared. If they tell you that they’re not taking the matter further, then you can rest easy because if they go back on it you have a case for unfair dismissal.

I meant to say "refuse to be fired"!

I see what you mean now. Their answer may well be "that it will depend on what will happen in the court".

Hate Actually

Deleted User wrote: »

If you were told many times not to stop anyone, why did you ?

"I'd caught two people the previous day and got ahead of myself". There were many thoughts in my head at the time, but deep down I knew what I was doing was wrong.

Hate Actually

leggo wrote: »

A lot of companies do that and appreciate lads who do it, but it’s a total cop out and a sign of awful standards. If someone comes in and steals something in front of your eyes and you let them walk, you’re not doing your job and are borderline complicit. Your job is to get it right, that’s a skill and requires effort, otherwise you’re just stealing a living that could instead be given to someone with a shred of work ethic.

Mysterypunter is right in a way. Just because they've stolen the item, doesn't mean that you haven't taken note of the way they look, got camera footage, registration number, etc. It's not only what the security company tell you to do, but also the store itself. You're never going to be 100% sure, and you can always fall back on that argument as a reason for not confronting the person. You can always pretend that you didn't have every letter on the ASCONE model.

leggo

Not really though. Gardai will just laugh at you if you call them, were on the floor when the incident happened and did nothing. Nothing will come of it and the thief will likely be back, as will their friends, as now they know the site and guard are a soft touch that won’t do anything. Plus if you’re there on site when it happens you should be able to deter it from happening to begin with.

Arrests are a minefield, yes, and are often a consequence of something going wrong, but there are still junkies and the like who are off their head and will just take stuff and run in front of your eyes and it’s part of your job to know exactly how to deal with that effectively if needed.

Jim2007

leggo wrote: »

A lot of companies do that and appreciate lads who do it, but it’s a total cop out and a sign of awful standards. If someone comes in and steals something in front of your eyes and you let them walk, you’re not doing your job and are borderline complicit. Your job is to get it right, that’s a skill and requires effort, otherwise you’re just stealing a living that could instead be given to someone with a shred of work ethic.

You don't get it. If a company hires you as a deterrent and you start accusing people of theft, you are not doing your job and they won't want you anywhere near their business, because you'll cost me more than the theft.

leggo

But clients don’t hire security solely as deterrents (though the sweet spot is minimal drama), they’re paying much more per hour than staff to get stuff back if it goes missing. So companies are just protecting their own arses and accounting for poor hiring and training standards by discouraging arrests, yet they’ll happily say what the client wants to hear, it’s a con.

Also, if the client complains about inaction, your employer will sell you out in a heartbeat because the contract is more important to them.

TheBoyConor

When you approach them you inform them of why you’re approaching them and give them instructions to return to the store, then you recite their rights and get information in as professional manner as the situation will allow.

No power to compel anyone to do anything or go anywhere. Sure all a person has to say is "no, I'm not going back into the shop with you" and be on their merry way. What are you going to do about it? Call the Gardai? And what are the Gardai going to do when they arrive an hour later, if at all that is.

Most security gaurds are instructed to just be present and watch people to act as a deterrent against the opportunistic and less brass necked shop lifter.
The seasoned career shoplifters know the game well and they have all the tricks and the law on biased towards their side.


OP, say nothing. Certainly do not be offering to resign or be volunteering a confession to what you did. Let it settle. Let them come to you. If they do, ask them to clarify in writing as to whether you'll be dismissed over it. Fire a shot across their bows by saying that you'll be talking through the matter with an employment law solicitor just so you are up to speed on the correct processes. That might put the fear in them and they'll let it slide.

Unless you have a written instruction not to approach or stop anyone then you didn't have an instruction. Anything verbal is he said she said. Play the game the same way the shoplifters play it.

leggo

Then you can just stand in front of them until they use force to remove you, at which stage you’re entitled to use reasonable force to defend yourself up to and including restraining them until the Gardai arrive because you were in fear for your safety while doing your job and requesting they give the goods they’ve stolen back.

Jim2007

leggo wrote: »

Then you can just stand in front of them until they use force to remove you, at which stage you’re entitled to use reasonable force to defend yourself up to and including restraining them until the Gardai arrive because you were in fear for your safety while doing your job and requesting they give the goods they’ve stolen back.

And the falls into the category of incitement to violence and possible false imprisonment, you are a liability.

OutForTender

leggo wrote: »

Then you can just stand in front of them until they use force to remove you, at which stage you’re entitled to use reasonable force to defend yourself up to and including restraining them until the Gardai arrive because you were in fear for your safety while doing your job and requesting they give the goods they’ve stolen back.

Are you 12? How can you actually think this is a good idea?

MartDublin

leggo wrote: »

Then you can just stand in front of them until they use force to remove you, at which stage you’re entitled to use reasonable force to defend yourself up to and including restraining them until the Gardai arrive because you were in fear for your safety while doing your job and requesting they give the goods they’ve stolen back.

False imprisonment is a crime. Security guards in Ireland have the exact same powers of detention as the 16 year old girl on the checkout. That is, they have zero powers. Only guards can legally detain someone, unless you get into citizens arrests but no security guard in their right mind would go that route.

If you're stopped by a security guard, best thing to do is voluntarily give them your name and phone number and walk away. They can then call the guards who can follow up with you if they wish. You have no obligation to go back into the store, empty your pockets, show the security guard inside your bag or even engage with them if you don't want to.

TheBoyConor

No, the best thing you can do with a security guard is keep your mouth shut except for telling them to get out of your way because they have no power to question or detain you nor are you obliged to tell them anything nor do anything they say. Then be on your way.

leggo

Lads you’re talking crap, stop guessing the law. Asking someone to come back to the store and then complying, or standing in front of them on a street and defending yourself if they assault you isn’t a crime you absolute nutcases. :pac:

MartDublin

leggo wrote: »

Lads you’re talking crap, stop guessing the law. Asking someone to come back to the store and then complying, or standing in front of them on a street and defending yourself if they assault you isn’t a crime you absolute nutcases. :pac:

Correct, asking somebody to come back to the store isn't a crime. They don't have to pay any attention to you though, it's the same situation as if some random guy in the street asked you to accompany them somewhere. Blocking somebody in the street I suppose isn't technically a crime either but I don't get what good it would do you apart from making you look like a fruitloop.

Edit: I initially read it as the security guard would stand in front of the person to stop them leaving the shop. That would of course be illegal.

leggo

MartDublin wrote: »

Correct, asking somebody to come back to the store isn't a crime. They don't have to pay any attention to you though, it's the same situation as if some random guy in the street asked you to accompany them somewhere. Blocking somebody in the street I suppose isn't technically a crime either but I don't get what good it would do you apart from making you look like a fruitloop.

Edit: I initially read it as the security guard would stand in front of the person to stop them leaving the shop. That would of course be illegal.

Yep it would, that’s not how stops are done as it doesn’t apply to ASCONE (go on, have a Google there and pretend you knew that all along ). And I dunno how you view situations, but when I see a security guard stopping someone in the street, I don’t think they’re the looper in the scenario, which is why you absolutely have to be right.

But yeah lads, you can say “oh I’d do this and this” but really that’s just bluster and pub talk and let’s anyone who’s been in the situation know how much you don’t understand. In the real world it works because people who steal and realise they’ve been caught **** themselves and panic, so once you’re experienced and have common sense it’s easy to take control of the situation and guide it to its natural conclusion, ideally calmly and professionally. The professional thieves realise they’re done and go along but generally give back the goods immediately, play dumb, make a scene to try embarrass you into letting them go, pretend to be sick etc, because they understand that resisting could get them in more trouble (petty theft isn’t a big deal, theft and assault is, so your plan is dumb because you’re going to end up needing to assault someone). I can count on one hand in 12 years the amount of times I needed to use any physicality and it was only ever in self-defence.

sweet_trip

At the end of the day, why do you care so much about petty shoplifting?


Lets be real here, the company you're working for is probably a very large chain, that makes millions per year in profits and the CEO's and managers are driving Audi Q7's and have big houses.


Meanwhile you're probably on near minimum wage and expendable. You're the bottom line and who will be held responsible, and they give no ****s about you because there are a dozen others lining up to take your job in the morning.


Thirdly, most large retail shops are insured for stock loss. Stock gets damaged, goes missing, gets miscounted or whatever.

Petty lifting really doesn't effect the store. IT doesn't effect you, the staff, the CEO or anybody.
Everyone from old ladies to kids smuggle out a few things at the self service checkouts or eat a sandwich while pushing their trolley around and "forget" to pay for it. It's no different unless you catch somebody trying to walk out with a TV worth hundreds or something.


You're still bottom of the ladder so why would you put your career and life on the line for some consumer plastic shíte product?

leggo

You could apply that logic to any job as an excuse to be lazy though. Some people take pride in their work and don’t want to waste their lives completely apathetic towards the thing they spend more waking hours doing per week than anything else (plus security is extremely boring if you’re just standing around for 8+ hours a day not doing the one thing you’re told to do). So the end result of your suggested attitude is a pretty miserable existence. If that’s not enough of a reason, then people have a family to feed and a responsibility towards them to make as much money as possible to clothe/feed their kids and give them a decent life. You don’t earn more money by being bad at your job and not caring about the one thing you’re being paid to care about.

Your logic only comes into play when it comes to taking the job home with you. Once you clock out, who gives a ****, it’s not your stuff that got stolen and won’t really be missed. But in this case OP could well lose their job and source of income over this, so it’s understandable if he is worrying about it out of hours.

Nermal

sweet_trip wrote: »

Thirdly, most large retail shops are insured for stock loss. Stock gets damaged, goes missing, gets miscounted or whatever.

Repulsive opinion. Who pays for that insurance? Honest customers.