Dart legroom

Cloudio9

Are the newer style dart carriages designed for Japanese people? I think they were Japanese manufactured. I hate them. The original German? carriages are much more comfortable.

Even average height people can’t sit opposite each other. Anyone tall has to sit with their legs out in the corridor. The seat feels like it’s tipping you on to the floor.

Del.Monte

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Are the newer style dart carriages designed for Japanese people? I think they were Japanese manufactured. I hate them. The original German? carriages are much more comfortable.

Even average height people can’t sit opposite each other. Anyone tall has to sit with their legs out in the corridor. The seat feels like it’s tipping you on to the floor.

Not to mention the lack of cushioning in the appalling seats. Why more of the first German DART units weren't ordered is mind boggling.

L1011

Del.Monte wrote: »

Not to mention the lack of cushioning in the appalling seats. Why more of the first German DART units weren't ordered is mind boggling.

LHB weren't going to make an over 20 year old design when they had long since moved on to new ones.

Del.Monte

L1011 wrote: »

LHB weren't going to make an over 20 year old design when they had long since moved on to new ones.

Well some new LHB units would probably have been better than the Japanese and Spanish stuff. Barring a deliberate policy decision to scrap the LHB units first I can see them outliving the later arrivals.

loyatemu

Cloudio9 wrote: »

Are the newer style dart carriages designed for Japanese people? I think they were Japanese manufactured. I hate them. The original German? carriages are much more comfortable.

Even average height people can’t sit opposite each other. Anyone tall has to sit with their legs out in the corridor. The seat feels like it’s tipping you on to the floor.

it's not all the Japanese units - the first batch are like that but on the second batch the seats have a lower profile so there is more legroom.

You can tell the difference - the newer units have no opening windows and aircon units on the top of the carriages.

tabbey

loyatemu wrote: »

it's not all the Japanese units - the first batch are like that but on the second batch the seats have a lower profile so there is more legroom.

You can tell the difference - the newer units have no opening windows and aircon units on the top of the carriages.

Both the ac and non ac Jap e.m.u.s have dreadful seats. The problem is the angle of the seat, backrest vertical, seat inclined to drop passengers once the brakes go on. For this reason, I sit facing backwards unless the seat opposite is empty so I can brace myself.

Anyone designing a seat knows to incline it back to support the occupant.
This Jap problem is a case of buying a seat off the shelf and fitting it in the wrong position.

The high back also makes the saloon very dreary compared to the low-backed LHB (German) e.m.u.s, which are much more pleasant.

Del.Monte

I don't think mentioning the word Jap is allowed as I got a ban years back for saying that the ordinary loos on the 22000s must have been designed for people of small stature or words to that effect.

Cloudio9

loyatemu wrote: »

it's not all the Japanese units - the first batch are like that but on the second batch the seats have a lower profile so there is more legroom.

You can tell the difference - the newer units have no opening windows and aircon units on the top of the carriages.

The air con seems to be no better than just having windows.

loyatemu

tabbey wrote: »

Both the ac and non ac Jap e.m.u.s have dreadful seats. The problem is the angle of the seat, backrest vertical, seat inclined to drop passengers once the brakes go on. For this reason, I sit facing backwards unless the seat opposite is empty so I can brace myself.

It's obviously a matter of personal preference, but I find the seats on the airconditioned units OK, the leg room is adequate and I don't think they slope forwards, at least not to the extent the seats on the non-airconditioned trains do. The latter are dreadful, I don't see how anyone could have signed off on them.

tabbey

Del.Monte wrote: »

I don't think mentioning the word Jap is allowed as I got a ban years back for saying that the ordinary loos on the 22000s must have been designed for people of small stature or words to that effect.

I do apologise, I use the term because I frequently forget the names of the component companies within the consortium which built these EMUs.

To amend the situation, let me say the electric trains built by or on behalf of a Japanese consortium, or the 8500/8600 sets.

I must also distinguish between such trains and an abbreviation for a Japanese person.

Vic_08

loyatemu wrote: »

It's obviously a matter of personal preference, but I find the seats on the airconditioned units OK, the leg room is adequate and I don't think they slope forwards, at least not to the extent the seats on the non-airconditioned trains do. The latter are dreadful, I don't see how anyone could have signed off on them.

Neither of these seat designs are Japanese. The earlier units have Richmond seats, an English manufacturer. These awful seats have been used in a number of UK trains, mainly as "upgrades" on BR era stock including the dreaded Pacers and long distance 158 units. All have the forward sloping base problem that makes them extremely uncomfortable for prolonged sitting, they are even worse in airline configuration as the back has a hard corner that combined with the seat having a thick profile makes them perfect for painfully banging knees off of.

The flatter (ironing board) seats are a European design that has also seen use in a number of UK trains, if fitted with decent padding they are tolerable although again the long distances routes they can be seen on are not really suitable.

It's fair to say that very poor seat designs are becoming the norm in UK railway coaches, the seats fitted to the new IEP trains that are taking over most inter-city routes are awful things with only a few MM of padding, even the first class seats are crap.