Should training be paid?

droene

Here is a list of training/ tasks I have had to complete for my job over the last week without pay:
Induction training
Patient moving and handling course
Children first training
I have also had to fill in numerous incident report forms and fill in time sheets, attend a meeting with my supervisor all off the clock.

The ratio of paid to unpaid work is currently around half and this doesn't seem even the slightest bit reasonable. My question is is all of this allowed? Do I have any grounds to ask for pay for all of this extra work?

Dav010

droene wrote: »

Here is a list of training/ tasks I have had to complete for my job over the last week without pay:
Induction training
Patient moving and handling course
Children first training
I have also had to fill in numerous incident report forms and fill in time sheets, attend a meeting with my supervisor all off the clock.

The ratio of paid to unpaid work is currently around half and this doesn't seem even the slightest bit reasonable. My question is is all of this allowed? Do I have any grounds to ask for pay for all of this extra work?

Is this a new job and are the items you list necessary for you to work at your job?

droene

Dav010 wrote: »

Is this a new job and are the items you list necessary for you to work at your job?

Yes I have started there in the last two weeks however from what I can gather everything with the exception of the children first training and induction day will be ongoing for the duration of me working there.
All of it is mandatory according to emails I get from the company.

Mrs OBumble

What's the hourly rate for paid hours, is it worth it?

Idleater

droene wrote: »

Yes I have started there in the last two weeks however from what I can gather everything with the exception of the children first training and induction day will be ongoing for the duration of me working there.
All of it is mandatory according to emails I get from the company.

Are you saying that you are not permitted to account for the hours attending those courses as working hours?

Same with timesheets?

droene

Idleater wrote: »

Are you saying that you are not permitted to account for the hours attending those courses as working hours?

Same with timesheets?

I am only allowed to put on timesheets the time I am assigned to be with clients and nothing else. They have been very clear about this and anything different can result in disciplinary hearings according to the handbook.

droene

Idleater wrote: »

Are you saying that you are not permitted to account for the hours attending those courses as working hours?

Same with timesheets?

Yes they are not permitted to be added to timesheets. On their system there's no way to put them on even. I emailed to clarify if I was missing something with this and they told me I was only able to be paid for time spend with clients and nothing else.

droene

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What's the hourly rate for paid hours, is it worth it?

Hourly rate is €13 which if I'm only paid for half the time I actually commit to the job works out at below minimum so not really

dennyk

According to the National Minimum Wage Act 2000 Section 8(2)(c), "working hours" includes "time spent on training or on a training course or course of study authorised by the employer, within the workplace or elsewhere, during normal working hours", so if these courses are happening during your normal working hours and you are paid on an hourly basis, you must be paid for them. You must also be paid for doing paperwork and attending meetings; those are still work activities. Your employer can't decide to only pay you for some of the work activities that you perform and not pay you for others (though they can ask you to track hours spent with clients separately, e.g. if they bill clients for those hours directly; that's reasonable and very common in industries where billable hours are a thing). Even if your employer only bills the client for client time, your work on administrative tasks is still work and still must be paid.

You should bring this up with your management; no need to be confrontational or anything, just say "I've noticed that I am not being paid properly for all of my hours worked. Here is a record of the hours when I was working or in employer-authorised training and haven't been paid for that working time. Could you please correct this?" If they refuse to correct the issue, then you can go to the Workplace Relations Commission.

Rubberchikken

We have constant mandatory training and are paid same hourly rate as work.

topmanamillion

Are you a healthcare professional with an agency?
Is the agency paying for the courses/are you?

endacl

Are the various trainings certified? Could you put them on your CV when looking for your next job? If you wanted the qualifications on your CV, what would the training cost you if the job wasn't providing it?

Donnielighto

endacl wrote: »

Are the various trainings certified? Could you put them on your CV when looking for your next job? If you wanted the qualifications on your CV, what would the training cost you if the job wasn't providing it?

That's the intro to an argument against them being paid properly.

cml387

As far as I can see all those courses are designed to aid the company in defending itself against claims. Damn sure they should pay for your time.

topmanamillion

endacl wrote: »

Are the various trainings certified? Could you put them on your CV when looking for your next job? If you wanted the qualifications on your CV, what would the training cost you if the job wasn't providing it?

As above. They're for the companies benefit so they can counter any claims with "Adequate training was provided" and "You were not operating as per training"
Also those courses have a time limit. Usually 2 years where they must be completed again.
Any employer who would need those courses as part of the job would provide training anyway. So having them would be of no benefit.

Advice for the OP: Arrange to meet with your manager during working hours. If that doesn't suit state you may be available at times which are mutually convenient but you will need to be paid/given toil for this time.

Tell them you're regularly required to work extra time to complete incident reports. They need to start compensating you for the that time. Again through toil or overtime pay.

If they decline begin looking for a new job immediately. These really are issues you should have discussed before accepting the job. It seems like you work in healthcare. Ongoing training and needing to stay on late is a part of that work. If they haven't a facility for compensating employees for that and training, they're clearly not a very good company. Begin looking for another job. Plenty of healthcare jobs out there.

STB.

I assume the agency has provided you with information on the terms and conditions of your work ?

Read

https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/publications_forms/guide_to_protection_of_employees_temporary_agency_work_act.pdf

The Act provides that all temporary agency workers must have equal treatment with workers hired directly by the hirer. You can rest assured that full time staff get paid for mandatory training.

Strumms

Yes, get out of there, training is work, you should be paid for it, your employer is just being a majorly cheap assed, unscrupulous motherfuçker.