Heat pump or electric radiators

golfhead

Looking for some advice on the following

We are mid-fifties and will probably have the house to ourselves as kids leave home in the next 18 months. Living in a semi-detached bungalow which is nearly 30 years old. Not sure what our BER rating is but we did get the attic insulated 5 years ago. Have an oil-fired central heating system which is used for an hour in the morning and then for 2 – 3 hours per evening as we get home from work. Also have an open fire back boiler which we use to heat the house during the winter evenings (Oct – Apr).

So the outline of our plan for the next 12/18 months is

Redesign the back garden and hopefully get rid of the external oil burner and the oil tank as part of this.

Revamp the heating system in the house. We would like to be able to control the temperature room-by room, with timing controls and by SMART phone remotely if possible.

We would still like to use the fire if possible but not necessarily the back boiler.

I am open to getting external insulation done.

We plan to get a BER rating done asap.

So, are our options at this stage either a heat pump system or electric radiators? Considerations, in no particular order, would be cost of the project, amount of work involved, optimum functionality and best solution from a heat output point-of-view.

timsey tiger

My understanding is that the idea behind a heat pump system is maintaining a steady temp. The system relies on a high level of insulation, so only requires a small input from from the heat pump to maintain the temp. I'm not sure how this would integrate with the boiler back.

listermint

Best get a survey done first tbh.

Heat pumps to maximize their operation need airtightness and Insulation. You have neither . I am renovating a 30 plus year bungalow myself. EWI will likely cost you more than 20k.

A heat pump should not be part of conversation yet. You'd get more value from EWI an updated boiler and TRVs on the radiators

antoinolachtnai

You need someone really knowledgeable locally to do a survey and advise you. This is very difficult.

The main thing to invest in is making the house better insulated if there is any way to do it.

I don’t think you are going to be able to get rid of your oil boiler.

It is very unlikely that either electric radiators or a heat pump would be a good match for your older building without a tremendous amount of insulating work (which would be expensive).

Evaluate carefully whether it is worth using the fireplace for heat. It is probably cheaper to just use the boiler unless you have a source of free timber. Tre y to count up the total cost of solid fuel. Take into account the labour involved too.

There are smart radiator valve systems that might work for you.

golfhead

Thanks for the replies.

Would really like to get rid of the oil and solid fuel system if possible so plan to talk to a few experts to see what the best alternative heating system would be. The open fire would just be used for the comfort/optics in the winter.

My initital thoughts are to get an insulating job done and then use electric radiators for heating.


golfhead

lucast2007us

golfhead wrote:

Would really like to get rid of the oil and solid fuel system if possible so plan to talk to a few experts to see what the best alternative heating system would be. The open fire would just be used for the comfort/optics in the winter.

Was in same boat as yourself got external insulation done on our 20 year old detached dormer for 9k after Grant and attic spray foam 1,800. Waiting in BER rating to come back to see next plan of action is looking to go air to water. Hate oil

Harry Palmr

Just to add an angle to this - if a house is colder than it might be because the house is oriented in the "wrong" direction or few/none of the windows are facing south (SE/SW) could adding direct sunlight with a skylight or even two through the attic space be beneficial?

MicktheMan

How you supply the heating needed after the fabric upgrade should not be your first consideration. Getting your heat loss severely reduced ought to be your top priority.

Forget the BER. Get a proper heat loss survey done FIRST. Then, based on the results, plan your improvements.

golfhead

The house isn't cold by any means - not saying that it couldn't be improved upon but it's fine.

Would get insulation done so that the electric radiators would work. Would get plug-in oil-filled heaters for the rooms if I thought that would work.

antoinolachtnai

golfhead wrote: »

The house isn't cold by any means - not saying that it couldn't be improved upon but it's fine.

Would get insulation done so that the electric radiators would work. Would get plug-in oil-filled heaters for the rooms if I thought that would work.

It will work. You should try it if you like. But keep an eye on electricity meter readings. It will be expensive.

An alternative that gets kicked around that might suit you is air-to-air heat pumps. This is basically an air conditioner type unit with one box on the wall indoors and another box outdoors. It runs off electric but will be much more efficient than just an electric heater. There are some threads about fitting these in small houses and apartments.

cruizer101

You can get smart TRV's fitted to the radiators which will allow you to control each rooms temperature remotely.
Would you consider getting a stove? far more efficient than open fire and gets rid of the heat you lose up the chimney even when not using fire

ercork

Electric radiators are very good. They're cheap to buy, require little or no maintenance and can be controlled very well with thermostats and timers. However, compared to oil, they will cost a fair bit more to run - probably about double. Also, I assume your hot water is provided by the oil boiler at the moment? If so you will need an immersion or something else for that.

golfhead

ercork wrote: »

Electric radiators are very good. They're cheap to buy, require little or no maintenance and can be controlled very well with thermostats and timers. However, compared to oil, they will cost a fair bit more to run - probably about double. Also, I assume your hot water is provided by the oil boiler at the moment? If so you will need an immersion or something else for that.

Plan to check out some electric radiators over the coming weekend to see whats out there. The cheaper upfront cost is a consideration as is the higher running cost. However, would hope that by using the zoning and timer potential would reduce this somewhat. Yes, get hot water from the oil but when the kids go, it'll just be the two of us and will get by with electric shower(s).

golfhead

Had an initial meeting with a home energy upgrade company.

They suggested that we have a BER rating done and then see how much it would cost to upgrade the house to allow us to install an SEAI grant-aided heat pump solution. Would initially need, in all probability, insulation and window/glass replacement.

So we will get the BER rating completed which will allow them to give us some ideas of where we go from here.

golfhead

Currently organising a heat loss survey for the house which I am told will give details of heat loss on a room-by-room basis and allow for better targetting of upgrades whereas the BER will only give an overall house rating. Is this correct?

The company I'm dealing with have told me that they are the only company that will look after all of the required upgrade works i.e insulation, window/glass replacement, solar panels, installation of heat pumps etc. Otherwise, I'll be dealing with different companies for all these jobs. Again, is this correct?

Idbatterim

Oil is dirt cheap at the moment. Why do you want to get rid if it? For aesthetic reasons out the back garden ? You can already put smart valves on each rad automatically....

antoinolachtnai

golfhead wrote: »

Currently organising a heat loss survey for the house which I am told will give details of heat loss on a room-by-room basis and allow for better targetting of upgrades whereas the BER will only give an overall house rating. Is this correct?

The company I'm dealing with have told me that they are the only company that will look after all of the required upgrade works i.e insulation, window/glass replacement, solar panels, installation of heat pumps etc. Otherwise, I'll be dealing with different companies for all these jobs. Again, is this correct?

The remarks about the BER are correct in general terms. But you can’t really ‘target’ upgrades as you describe. It will help determine the best plan but it won’t mean that you can choose different levels of insulation for different areas of the house or things like that.

There is certainly more than one company that will project manage the project you describe.

You are talking about a large and complex project here. It seems like your intention originally was to get rid of your oil tank and improve the heating and heat retention of the house a bit. Now you are talking about a pretty big and intrusive intervention to the fabric of the house. I would suggest that you get independent advice before you spend too much money.

golfhead

Ideally, I'd love to retrofit the heating and avail of SEAI grants (i.e achieve an A2 Ber rating) but, if as I expect, the cost will be beyond the budget, then I would hope to target the improvements to areas where I will get best bang for my buck and see what BER rating is achievable with available resources.

I did find some other companies who would project manage the works so I'll be getting in contact with them.

antoinolachtnai, are you saying that I should get independent advice other than the heat loss surveyor and from talking to the various companies?

antoinolachtnai

golfhead wrote: »

Ideally, I'd love to retrofit the heating and avail of SEAI grants (i.e achieve an A2 Ber rating) but, if as I expect, the cost will be beyond the budget, then I would hope to target the improvements to areas where I will get best bang for my buck and see what BER rating is achievable with available resources.

I did find some other companies who would project manage the works so I'll be getting in contact with them.

antoinolachtnai, are you saying that I should get independent advice other than the heat loss surveyor and from talking to the various companies?

Is the heat loss surveyor independent? If so that is a great help. They should be able to direct you as to what is worth doing, at least to some degree.

My concern is that this turning into a full renovation job. If it is or even if it might, you need appropriate advice.