Google nest, worth the money?

kramer1

Or any suggestions for alternatives?

I am referring to the nest thermostat, can't figure out how to change the title of the thread

Lex Luthor

picked up a Nest Mini in Currys recently for €40
Has the new speaker and sound is excellent
No issues so far
Need to sort out the routines though, not working yet

kramer1

Lex Luthor wrote: »

picked up a Nest Mini in Currys recently for €40
Has the new speaker and sound is excellent
No issues so far
Need to sort out the routines though, not working yet

Apologies, meant the thermostat, will rename thread

2011

I think it is a rip off. The best alternative is Sonoff.

kramer1

2011 wrote: »

I think it is a rip off. The best alternative is Sonoff.

Thought about that, goin on a combi boiler, probably need volt free contacts for the switch line, then a sonoff thermostat and a switch, little enclosure, seems like a lot of messing, want to give the customer a few options but don't want to have my heart broken on setup and call backs either

Steve

I installed a few nests in the last few years.

Functionally, yea they're great.

Heating bills all increased tho.

e.g. a lot of people have timers (including me) - and set them to come on for 30 mins in the morning during the winter to take the edge off the cold.. nest will go and fetch the local weather forecast and determine when to start heating so you will wake up to a cosy room / house. That's all good and it works great but costs a lot more long term.

kramer1

Steve wrote: »

I installed a few nests in the last few years.

Functionally, yea they're great.

Heating bills all increased tho.

e.g. a lot of people have timers (including me) - and set them to come on for 30 mins in the morning during the winter to take the edge off the cold.. nest will go and fetch the local weather forecast and determine when to start heating so you will wake up to a cosy room / house. That's all good and it works great but costs a lot more long term.

Seriously? Surely that's the exact opposite of what they're meant to do?

Steve

kramer1 wrote: »

Seriously? Surely that's the exact opposite of what they're meant to do?

It depends.

Scenario 1:

You leave the heat on all the time and rely on a single thermostat in the hallway to control it.
- yes you will save money as the controller is smarter than youin this regard.

Scenario 2: (which is most people)

You give the heat a boost the odd time when it is cold, otherwise it is is off.

This means it's mostly off.

Smart sensors including nest and all the others are indeed smart. they learn the thermal profile of their environment and also build in local weather forecasts from the internet to determine when to start heating.

So, you tell it that at 7am, when you get up for work or whatever, you would like a certain temperature in the house, it will manage that. On a cold night it may mean that the heating runs 4 extra hours to achieve it.

On the flip side, it also means that it will not call any heat in the summer.

In general, I use scenario 2. Boost when needed, half hour on in winter mornings on the timer, and fully off in the summer.

kramer1

Steve wrote: »

It depends.

Scenario 1:

You leave the heat on all the time and rely on a single thermostat in the hallway to control it.
- yes you will save money as the controller is smarter than youin this regard.

Scenario 2: (which is most people)

You give the heat a boost the odd time when it is cold, otherwise it is is off.

This means it's mostly off.

Smart sensors including nest and all the others are indeed smart. they learn the thermal profile of their environment and also build in local weather forecasts from the internet to determine when to start heating.

So, you tell it that at 7am, when you get up for work or whatever, you would like a certain temperature in the house, it will manage that. On a cold night it may mean that the heating runs 4 extra hours to achieve it.

On the flip side, it also means that it will not call any heat in the summer.

In general, I use scenario 2. Boost when needed, half hour on in winter mornings on the timer, and fully off in the summer.

Old Georgian building, no insulation, combi boiler. What ya reckon? Just gonna run all the time and cost a fortune?

Steve

kramer1 wrote: »

Old Georgian building, no insulation, combi boiler. What ya reckon? Just gonna run all the time and cost a fortune?

It depends where you put the thermostat / nest / whatever.

It will do what it is programmed to do, that is achieve a set temperature at wherever you put it.

So, it you say to it "I want it to be 20 deg C at 7 am when I get up for work then it will achieve that by looking at the house temperature, the local forecast temperature and will start the heating whatever time it calculates is needed to achieve that.

It doesn't know that on a chilly morning all you need is 10 minutes to shower and get dressed etc.. and after that you don't care if the house suffers an ice age.

Similarly, when you get home, you can say what temperature you would like to be greeted with and it will work out when in the day to start heating.

If you've pots of money, it's a great system.

kramer1

Steve wrote: »

It depends where you put the thermostat / nest / whatever.

It will do what it is programmed to do, that is achieve a set temperature at wherever you put it.

So, it you say to it "I want it to be 20 deg C at 7 am when I get up for work then it will achieve that by looking at the house temperature, the local forecast temperature and will start the heating whatever time it calculates is needed to achieve that.

It doesn't know that on a chilly morning all you need is 10 minutes to shower and get dressed etc.. and after that you don't care if the house suffers an ice age.

Similarly, when you get home, you can say what temperature you would like to be greeted with and it will work out when in the day to start heating.

If you've pots of money, it's a great system.

Very informative couple of posts there, appreciate it, thanks

Henrys Grimey Paws

You can limit the amount of pre-heating the thermostat can do, so for example if you want it to be 20C at 7am you can tell the thermostat that it can only "pre-heat" from an hour before or alternatively you can disable the pre-heating schedule which is what I do. In my case the nest turns on the heating when I've scheduled rather than pre-heat to achieve the temperature by that time.

maxamillius

Henrys Grimey Paws wrote: »

You can limit the amount of pre-heating the thermostat can do, so for example if you want it to be 20C at 7am you can tell the thermostat that it can only "pre-heat" from an hour before or alternatively you can disable the pre-heating schedule which is what I do. In my case the nest turns on the heating when I've scheduled rather than pre-heat to achieve the temperature by that time.

If you disable the preheat, what happens? You can’t programme the Nest to come on at a time can you?

Henrys Grimey Paws

maxamillius wrote: »

If you disable the preheat, what happens? You can’t programme the Nest to come on at a time can you?

You set a schedule on the nest so that it changes to a higher or lower temperature, I have it set to 20 degrees and then drop it back to 15 when I want it 'off'. When we leave the house it automatically gets set to ECO mode which is 9 degrees

maxamillius

Henrys Grimey Paws wrote: »

You set a schedule on the nest so that it changes to a higher or lower temperature, I have it set to 20 degrees and then drop it back to 15 when I want it 'off'. When we leave the house it automatically gets set to ECO mode which is 9 degrees

Ok that makes sense, so is your boiler ever actually “off” or is it always on just maintaining a much lower temperature ie 9 degrees?

Steve

maxamillius wrote: »

Ok that makes sense, so is your boiler ever actually “off” or is it always on just maintaining a much lower temperature ie 9 degrees?

Nest can't control the boiler temperature, just call for it to be on or off.

In the above scenario, it would only be on if needed to maintain the 9 degrees.

Also, if you disable the preheat, you might as well just have an old fashioned timer and thermostat setup, the only benefit you'd get is being able to control the heat remotely using the phone app.

Henrys Grimey Paws

Steve wrote: »

Nest can't control the boiler temperature, just call for it to be on or off.

In the above scenario, it would only be on if needed to maintain the 9 degrees.

Also, if you disable the preheat, you might as well just have an old fashioned timer and thermostat setup, the only benefit you'd get is being able to control the heat remotely using the phone app.

Well it also ensures the house isn't heated when it's empty thus saving money over an old fashioned thermostat as well as providing the remote capability.

Steve

Henrys Grimey Paws wrote: »

Well it also ensures the house isn't heated when it's empty thus saving money over an old fashioned thermostat as well as providing the remote capability.

I'm not disputing that, the op asked if it was worth the money...

I pointed out that it may cost them more than they bargained for in heating bills.

Nests are €240 ish, plus installation - say another 150 ish depending on location and pre-existing wiring. You'd be mad not to add on another 100 to cover the inevitable phone calls and time spent explaining why it is doing what it does and not what the user thought it would.

So call that 500 to break even, anything less and you're wasting your time.

In the end, the user gets a smart thermostat they can control with their phone and higher heating costs unless they tell it not to do what it's set up as default to do - and actually realise that it's doing it and how to stop it.

Is it worth the money?

imo, it's doubtful.

ted1

Steve wrote: »

I'm not disputing that, the op asked if it was worth the money...

I pointed out that it may cost them more than they bargained for in heating bills.

Nests are €240 ish, plus installation - say another 150 ish depending on location and pre-existing wiring. You'd be mad not to add on another 100 to cover the inevitable phone calls and time spent explaining why it is doing what it does and not what the user thought it would.

So call that 500 to break even, anything less and you're wasting your time.

In the end, the user gets a smart thermostat they can control with their phone and higher heating costs unless they tell it not to do what it's set up as default to do - and actually realise that it's doing it and how to stop it.

Is it worth the money?

imo, it's doubtful.

The auto away feature saves lots of money. Doesn’t bother heating the house if it’s empty.