Work place - loan of money

Baseball72

"Asking for a friend" (genuinely ).......

A good friend lent a few thousand Euro to his line manager a year ago. Despite many reminders, no sign of payment. Should my friend bring the issue to HR?

It's a multi national company........

punisher5112

Was it lent in work?

I had similar where I lent to a work colleague, he turned it around to try and make it seem I was harassing him etc....

He went to management and tried to get me sacked. He was French, they sided with him even though I had text messages and death threats from him.

I brought him to court, won but not full amount and got stuck paying my own costs.

He only ever paid me €2k back out of €5k.

Hasn't been in work in at least 3 years.

I would highly recommend never lending unless you can take the hit and or loss of a friend or family member over it.

He had me call over, he broke down crying that they'd be evicted etc.

He was a absolute con artist. The wife wasn't much better.

gmisk

Baseball72 wrote: »

"Asking for a friend" (genuinely ).......

A good friend lent a few thousand Euro to his line manager a year ago. Despite many reminders, no sign of payment. Should my friend bring the issue to HR?

It's a multi national company........

Why would he do that?! Seriously stupid thing to do, not sure what can be done about it law wise, nothing I would think.

o1s1n

Why would someone lend that much money to a colleague? It's insane.

I wouldn't be bringing it to HR no, it's nothing to do with them and I wouldn't want to involve work and jeopardise that too.

Best to go down the legal route.

Baseball72

Thanks. Yes, never loan to family/friends/colleagues....

Die Hard 2019

Repeat after me; I am not a bank, I cannot lend you money.

You give people money and they may or may not give it back to you.

Die Hard 2019

Baseball72 wrote: »

Thanks. Yes, never loan to family/friends/colleagues....

You don't know me at all can I borrow some monies?

Die Hard 2019

Die Hard 2019 wrote: »

Repeat after me; I am not a bank, I cannot lend you money.

This is a valid point. If the bank, credit union, provident, etc. won't give them a loan, there's a good chance there's a reason why they won't.

campo

Loaning money is like gambling, you should never gamble money you can't afford to lose and it is the same thing with loans, never loan money unless you can afford never to get it back.

punisher5112

I have no issues giving a lad a €20 etc if stuck but never anything larger ever again.

As others stated you're not a bank or money lending franchise etc so let them off.

If it were a couple of hundred but the nerve of people to ask for thousands and then never pay back, what scum they really are.

bbbbb

The fact that it the line manager is significant, I feel.
It would be hard to refute a claim that your friend “felt pressured” to make a loan.

RandomViewer

Very bad idea to lend money , most times you will never get it back.

An Ri rua

Baseball72 wrote: »

"Asking for a friend" (genuinely ).......

A good friend lent a few thousand Euro to his line manager a year ago. Despite many reminders, no sign of payment. Should my friend bring the issue to HR?

It's a multi national company........

Make no moves without serious consideration and advice. I've collected a good few debts over the years. Professionally and personally ( in business dealings for myself and family). I've used some pretty dirty tricks to get what's mine or what's due. Those who renege on debts deserve no mercy. If they make efforts, fine. Otherwise, stamp down hard.

Your 'friend' has painted himself in a very weak spot. Crazy stuff.

Non connected people have gone to workplaces and sat in receptions wearing a singlet saying debt collector. It works. I've extracted debts from unscrupulous types where companies have let me off the leash. But it's dangerous (as you're painting someone into a corner) and it's unsavoury. Not a route your friend should consider.

What proof has your friend got? Any emails? Texts?

An email on company email between them would be very compromising for the line manager I would think (bringing company into disrepute should you go legal). A promise to discretely air this could be enough. Enough to frighten someone re promotion. But I'd be planning my exit soon after. I see no clean way to get that money. Maybe others do.

Very stupid error. I'd be interested in those circumstances that led to the loan. Bizarre stuff. Or else, abuse of authority.

carltonleon

Lads, I think at this stage the OP/friend is fully aware that it is a bad idea to lend money, that is not what is being asked.

No, I don't think that it should be brought to HR as it is not a work issue. It is a personal issue between 2 individuals who happen to work together and as such the legal route is the only way to go, in my opinion.

Mrs OBumble

Most companies view manager's who take loans from their staff very poorly - go to HR and he will likely get sacked, thus removing any remote chance of you getting paid back.

It's bizzare that they are considering bringing to HR. Are we missing something here?

People that borrow off of semi acquaintances can often be gamblers that are good at requesting money, similarly people with drug addicts. As you can imagine, the prospect of getting the money back in such instances is very poor.

StupidLikeAFox

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's bizzare that they are considering bringing to HR. Are we missing something here?

Maybe there was an element of pressure from a manager on a subordinate to lend the money. HR would be very interested in that

In terms of actually getting the money back, going to HR would be of little use

Frynge

I agree with what most people are saying re don't give money to colleagues and I have been caught out as well.

But during the bad times that mostly left me unaffected two friends had asked me for a loan and both times I gave it to the them with the instruction that it was a gift and not a loan and it was only to be mentioned again once they were giving it back to me. Only way to to it.

StupidLikeAFox

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Maybe there was an element of pressure from a manager on a subordinate to lend the money. HR would be very interested in that

Yip. That's what I mean by are we missing something. Even the OP may not know the full picture.

con___manx1

punisher5112 wrote: »

Was it lent in work?

I had similar where I lent to a work colleague, he turned it around to try and make it seem I was harassing him etc....

He went to management and tried to get me sacked. He was French, they sided with him even though I had text messages and death threats from him.

I brought him to court, won but not full amount and got stuck paying my own costs.

He only ever paid me €2k back out of €5k.

Hasn't been in work in at least 3 years.

I would highly recommend never lending unless you can take the hit and or loss of a friend or family member over it.

He had me call over, he broke down crying that they'd be evicted etc.

He was a absolute con artist. The wife wasn't much better.

You should have hired debt collectors to go after him. The viper Foley has a debt collecting business thats totally legal. I head they an be pretty persuasive using unconventional methods.

Oranage2

campo wrote: »

Loaning money is like gambling, you should never gamble money you can't afford to lose and it is the same thing with loans, never loan money unless you can afford never to get it back.

Worst than gambling, gambling you can win, the best possible outcome from loaning someone money is to get it back.

As for op, I'd threaten the person saying you will go to HR, there's also dept collectors and you get a solicitor too.

punisher5112

con___manx1 wrote: »

You should have hired debt collectors to go after him. The viper Foley has a debt collecting business thats totally legal. I head they an be pretty persuasive using unconventional methods.

Oh I know but my dad had faith in the judicial system, he no longer does and has had his eyes wide opened at the carry on in the system not only for my above issues but other things that happened.

If I were starting it all again, he is the man I would have used, work with a nephew of his.

_Brian

I would absolutely go to HR about this.

Tell them your line manager approached you for money and being your manager you didnt feel you could refuse.

They’ve put you on a ****ty position so don’t be afraid to lay it on that you really associated it with the line manager aspect and you wouldn’t have don’t it otherwise.

punisher5112

_Brian wrote: »

I would absolutely go to HR about this.

Tell them your line manager approached you for money and being your manager you didnt feel you could refuse.

They’ve put you on a ****ty position so don’t be afraid to lay it on that you really associated it with the line manager aspect and you wouldn’t have don’t it otherwise.

These people are absolutely amazing at turning things around.

If it isn't in writing or any proof at all the op is fooked

_Brian

punisher5112 wrote: »

These people are absolutely amazing at turning things around.

If it isn't in writing or any proof at all the op is fooked

Possibly

But I’d dirty the managers name at work anyway !

_Brian

_Brian wrote: »

Possibly

But I’d dirty the managers name at work anyway !

And possibly the OP. He looks silly too, and potentially spuriously involving the company.

punisher5112

_Brian wrote: »

Possibly

But I’d dirty the managers name at work anyway !

Unfortunately I have experience here. Only difference was he was just a colleague.

Jim2007

_Brian wrote: »

Possibly

But I’d dirty the managers name at work anyway !

And you could also find yourself in court for defamation...

Markcheese

Jim2007 wrote: »

And you could also find yourself in court for defamation...

I was gonna say it's only defamation if its not true
,But there's probably no paper trail ,saved texts ,e-mails , and money probably given in cash ...

Baseball72

Thank you all for your comments. I have spoken to the person concerned. decided not to go to HR. Looking at going legal instead and keeping employer out of the issue.

bfa1509

Years of Judge Judy has taught me never to loan anyone anything ever.

Also, signing as a guarantor is equally if not a more stupidor thing than giving a loan.

Jim2007

Markcheese wrote: »

I was gonna say it's only defamation if its not true
,But there's probably no paper trail ,saved texts ,e-mails , and money probably given in cash ...

Just because something is true does not mean you can't be taken to court and loose over it...

Strumms

I’d advise him to sit down with the manager, discuss a payment plan. Say there are things happening in life whereby you require the money back as agreed, you have let him off with xx grace and now you'd appreciate payments being made... also put it all in email and request he replies acknowledging and agreeing...

It could be 400 euros a month or whatever but get the cash rolling in...

Also do we know why the manager needed the loan ? It’s odd to say the least that a person working in management would need a loan from a line employee earning less then them... it could be good to establish this as it might give an insight as to why they are being so flakey... if there would be say just for example an addiction issue, either drugs or gambling or something else that has both influenced the need for the cash and indeed the behavior they are showing in not engaging with you to organize repayment.

_Brian

The absolute first move is document the loan, a repayment schedule and get an signature on it.

That will make future moves considerably easier.

OMM 0000

Baseball72 wrote: »

"Asking for a friend" (genuinely ).......

A good friend lent a few thousand Euro to his line manager a year ago. Despite many reminders, no sign of payment. Should my friend bring the issue to HR?

It's a multi national company........

I was in a similar situation before, although it was only about EUR 100.

The guy just refused to give it back.

I let it go.

My opinion on stuff like this is it's a personal issue, and running to HR will just make you look bad.

Strumms

I wouldn’t say HR would want to know... they would probably wrap him on the knuckles for getting into a situation of an outside financial and personal nature with one of their employees but they won’t be writing you a cheque.

Lackey

Jim2007 wrote: »

And you could also find yourself in court for defamation...

Genuine question
Do regular joe people (not ‘famous/infamous’) people actually take each other to court for defamation in Ireland?

It’s thrown around here a lot but does it happen?

Going legal..good luck, but even after that, even if you win, if he decides not to pay anyway, nothing will happen.
I would reconsider twisting the screw another way,
But if he’s brazen enough to take the cash and not pay it back
He’ll be brazen enough to ride it out show up for work every day with a hard neck

punisher5112

Op use the viper, it will be the best choice you will ever make, don't go the court route....

I learned very much so doing it the what one would think be the right way.

Captain Flaps

Still gobsmacked at the number of people recommending OP hire goons from an actual proper gangster. Like, I'm sure they're effective, but really? Is this what we've become? I'd write off the debt than let a chunk of it go to gangland criminals thanks.