Car accident

Fergalicious

Hello wise people,

I was in a small car accident earlier and want to know if the likes ever happened anyone and what the outcome was.

So here's the details:

I was driving behind a car. Approached a left turn only junction where we both stopped. The car in front was indicating to go right at this left turn only junction, it then proceeded to pull off and turn right.
In the meantime I followed behind with my left indicator on as I always obey this sign cause it's a busy road. I stopped to checked for pedestrians and approaching cars(and bikes) from the right.
I took off to turn left not knowing that the other car stopped in the middle of the road. He stopped because he could not yet illegally turn right as there was oncoming traffic in the opposite lane that he was trying to get into.
So, I rear ended him.
The main question, who will the insurance company find to be in the wrong?
It's interesting because he broke a rule of the road but I still rear ended him.
We were both calm and collected about it all as it could be much worse. Both reported it to the insurance companies.
Also, when the Garda turned up the other guy told him he was turning right. The Garda said he shouldn't have and put it in the report.

Thoughts?

Del2005

Just because the other road user is doing an illegal maneuver doesn't mean that you can hit them. 100% on you I'm afraid.

I'm afraid as Del2005 above says, you're the one liable here, unfortunately. If you hit an illegally parked car, it's still your fault, etc. etc.

Fergalicious

Del2005 wrote: »

Just because the other road user is doing an illegal maneuver doesn't mean that you can hit them. 100% on you I'm afraid.

If he turned left, he was clear to proceed and would not have stopped in the middle of the road. The no turn right is there to prevent this exact instance. So because he disobeyed, doesn't that mean he was the cause of the accident?
Looking forward to what the claims team say tomorrow.

ratracer

Fergalicious wrote: »

If he turned left, he was clear to proceed and would not have stopped in the middle of the road. The no turn right is there to prevent this exact instance. So because he disobeyed, doesn't that mean he was the cause of the accident?
Looking forward to what the claims team say tomorrow.

“So, I rear ended him.”

This is the most important aspect here.

You ran into the back of another vehicle. Regardless of what he was doing, you were not paying due care and attention to your surroundings and are 100% wrong here. Hopefully there isn’t much damage to either vehicle and he doesn’t suddenly decide that he has a back ‘injury’ this morning.

MarkR

He must have been in front of your car to hit him. So your fault I'm afraid. Similar to when you're expecting people to accelerate off into a roundabout, but they stop for some reason ahead if you. It has to be clear for you to proceed, and it seems it wasn't.

Huntergonzo

Could be a 50/50 considering he was trying to make an illegal turn.

No doubt he and his insurance will try to pin it on you, but stay firm and argue the point that he was in the wrong and try to settle for a 50/50.

Whatever you do, don't roll over easy!

zapper55

You are at fault. His attempting an illegal right turn is irrelevant. Why were you not paying attention to the fact that he had stopped, doesn't matter the reason why.

Even if he was turning left and the road was clear something could have easily pulled out in front if him to make him stop suddenly, and you should be driving at a safe distance behind him which would give you enough breaking space.

SmartinMartin

Well I think, given that you rear ended him but that he shouldn't have been there in the first place, an insurance assessor will use the default setting , ie 50/50 blame, so everyone walks away with a higher premium.

Fergalicious

ratracer wrote: »

“So, I rear ended him.”

This is the most important aspect here.

You ran into the back of another vehicle. Regardless of what he was doing, you were not paying due care and attention to your surroundings and are 100% wrong here. Hopefully there isn’t much damage to either vehicle and he doesn’t suddenly decide that he has a back ‘injury’ this morning.

Yeh I know the whole "I rear ended him" part is going to be the deciding factor.
But, he was also not paying due care by disobeying road signage. It just sucks that it has to come from my policy because of someone breaking the rules of the road.
I only need a headlamp. He needs a rear bumper and side panel.

Fergalicious

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Could be a 50/50 considering he was trying to make an illegal turn.

No doubt he and his insurance will try to pin it on you, but stay firm and argue the point that he was in the wrong and try to settle for a 50/50.

Whatever you do, don't roll over easy!

Both with the same insurance company so that's another twist.

Fergalicious

SmartinMartin wrote: »

Well I think, given that you rear ended him but that he shouldn't have been there in the first place, an insurance assessor will use the default setting , ie 50/50 blame, so everyone walks away with a higher premium.

I thankfully paid for step back so hoping the premium isn't affected too much.

ratracer

Fergalicious wrote: »

Yeh I know the whole "I rear ended him" part is going to be the deciding factor.
But, he was also not paying due care by disobeying road signage. It just sucks that it has to come from my policy because of someone breaking the rules of the road.
I only need a headlamp. He needs a rear bumper and side panel.

Yes it sucks, I agree with you 100% on that, but you were clearly not paying enough attention to all of your surroundings before you moved off. This is the most basic aspect of competent driving. I’ll be very surprised if it’s judged any other way then you being fully to blame. The actions of the other driver did not contribute to you rear ending him. If you had hit him side on as he pulled out in front of you, you would have a case to argue.

irishevo8

Why dont you just pay cash for the bumper + side panel to be sorted , No need for insurance to be involved

Fergalicious

irishevo8 wrote: »

Why dont you just pay cash for the bumper + side panel to be sorted , No need for insurance to be involved

It's an expensive cars side panel and bumper. I have step back so thankful it won't affect me too much. I'll fix my own car myself though.

malinheader

Fergalicious wrote: »

I thankfully paid for step back so hoping the premium isn't affected too much.

Sorry to sound condescending, but step back or full no claim protection your premium will rise considerably.
I learnt the hard way.

Fergalicious

malinheader wrote: »

Sorry to sound condescending, but step back or full no claim protection your premium will rise considerably.
I learnt the hard way.

Is step back not there to protect against one accident?

HeidiHeidi

Step back protects the % discount you get off the premium.

Doesn't stop them hiking the premium itself.

ratracer

malinheader wrote: »

Sorry to sound condescending, but step back or full no claim protection your premium will rise considerably.
I learnt the hard way.

And also, you will only receive step back protection if you stay with your current insurer. Some of the other insurers won’t take you with a claim against you.

malinheader

Fergalicious wrote: »

Is step back not there to protect against one accident?

No it supposed to protect your years you have gained with no claims to give you a better discount.
In my experience they tell you that your still keeping your discount but they hike up your premium every year substantially for 5 years knowing in most cases no other company wants you or will give you a ridiculous quote for having a claim.
Need to weigh up very carefully how much to fix other car as opposed to how much your insurance will rise in maybe 5 years with the same company.

Fergalicious

malinheader wrote: »

No it supposed to protect your years you have gained with no claims to give you a better discount.
In my experience they tell you that your still keeping your discount but they hike up your premium every year substantially for 5 years knowing in most cases no other company wants you or will give you a ridiculous quote for having a claim.
Need to weigh up very carefully how much to fix other car as opposed to how much your insurance will rise in maybe 5 years with the same company.

Ah ok. In your experience how much did it rise per year?

Firstly, don't be surprised if a personal injury claim gets tacked on.

You're definitely going to be found at fault. You knew he was trying to turn right at a junction you know well. And yet you crashed into a stationary car. The other driver may be done for breaking the law, but it shouldn't (Imo) impact on who was at fault for the accident that occurred.

And, to labour the point, what if the car WAS turning left but stalled (say a learner driver), it sounds like you weren't looking ahead and would have rear ended as well.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Fergalicious wrote: »

Ah ok. In your experience how much did it rise per year?

I was 'involved' in an accident last year. When I say involved, my car was parked (legally) and someone ploughed into the side of it.

I wasn't even in the car at the time, I came back to a note on the windscreen and no wing mirror and less of a side door.

However, even though the guy owned up and 100% without a doubt his fault (his insurance took care of everything within days) my premium DOUBLED the next renewal.

I had to let my insurance company know that my stationery car had been hit and so I was involved in an 'incident' which I assume resulted in the hike of my premium.

A Law

Fergalicious wrote: »

It's an expensive cars side panel and bumper. I have step back so thankful it won't affect me too much. I'll fix my own car myself though.

Your insurance premium is going up either way. Not claiming for your own car isn't going to make it go up less. That's just my experience. I'd be getting a top job done on my car if it was me, through the insurance.

Fergalicious

Valeria Brave Gunpowder wrote: »

I was 'involved' in an accident last year. When I say involved, my car was parked (legally) and someone ploughed into the side of it.

I wasn't even in the car at the time, I came back to a note on the windscreen and no wing mirror and less of a side door.

However, even though the guy owned up and 100% without a doubt his fault (his insurance took care of everything within days) my premium DOUBLED the next renewal.

I had to let my insurance company know that my stationery car had been hit and so I was involved in an 'incident' which I assume resulted in the hike of my premium.

Wait, what? This is ridiculous. How can they raise your premium even though somebody hit you?

malinheader

Fergalicious wrote: »

Ah ok. In your experience how much did it rise per year?

My son had a small accident driving under me and nearly doubled when went to renew.
That's only my experience perhaps someone else had a better experience but you need to be very careful.
This was a good while back now and
I am now on full bonus myself but for the last three years I have changed companies because of a substantial rise when renewing. I would not want to be stuck to the same company for 5 years. Perhaps someone else had a better experience than me.

Fergalicious

joefuss1986 wrote: »

Your insurance premium is going up either way. Not claiming for your own car isn't going to make it go up less. That's just my experience. I'd be getting a top job done on my car if it was me, through the insurance.

Iv third party unfortunately.

Fergalicious

malinheader wrote: »

My son had a small accident driving under me and nearly doubled when went to renew.
That's only my experience perhaps someone else had a better experience but you need to be very careful.
This was a good while back now and
I am now on full bonus myself but for the last three years I have changed companies because of a substantial rise when renewing. I would not want to be stuck to the same company for 5 years. Perhaps someone else had a better experience than me.

Jesus my insurance was only 450 last year. I'll be expecting it to be 900+ next year so.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Fergalicious wrote: »

Wait, what? This is ridiculous. How can they raise your premium even though somebody hit you?

Well they didn't specifically say it was hiked because of that, it just mysteriously doubled on my next renewal after the accident.

Even though its a no fault incident (and luckily the guy who crashed into me was honest and genuine) it still gets recorded on your policy.

So when you look for a quote from another insurance company the question along the lines of 'have you been involved in and claims or incidents in the last 5 years' you have to let them know even if it's not your fault.

Anyway I managed to move insurance companies after that hike regardless and got a much cheaper and better deal elsewhere.

Huntergonzo

Fergalicious wrote: »

Both with the same insurance company so that's another twist.

Well they probably won't be too friendly anyway.

Another car crashed into me 2 years ago, basically I was turning right and he tried to overtake me, he even crossed a solid white line to overtake and it was a legal right turn. Pretty open and shut case as far as I was concerned

He made up some bullshít about me not indicating (which I was) and his insurance company was insisting on 50/50. But I wouldn't accept it and hounded them, I rang every 15mins for 3 hours until they sent out an inspector, who thankfully didn't try to argue the case at this point. I never put in a bullshít injury claim, just got my car fixed up and €1800 for depeciation of the vehicle. They also paid for a replacement vehicle while mine was being repaired.

But I would of had to go through my own insurance if I had of just let it go, so be persistant.

My own insurance were about as useful as a pair of tits on a bull. I rang them to let them know what had happened and to see if they could give me some advise.

The useless fcukers advised me to take 50/50 and sent me out claim forms on 2 occasions even though I made it clear I had no intentions of claiming off my own insurance.

So be prepared for shenanigans!

Fergalicious

Fergalicious wrote: »

Wait, what? This is ridiculous. How can they raise your premium even though somebody hit you?

Someone rear ended me in August, broker contacted me last week for an upcoming renewal and asked was I in an accident in the last 5 years. I almost said no, but then realised I wasn't asked if I'd caused an accident. So, I said yes, 'but that shouldn't matter as I wasn't at fault.'

She said it'll be a factor. :eek: My own renewal quote came in last week also and had jumped approx 25% when I was expecting a reduction per trend. I had informed my insurance company at the time.

malinheader

Fergalicious wrote: »

Jesus my insurance was only 450 last year. I'll be expecting it to be 900+ next year so.

As I said this was my conclusion. No one can tell you what will happen your premium.
What I am trying to say is if the damage is not to bad to the other vehicle and no personal injuries are being sought, it could end up being cheaper to fix the other car yourself if possible and not to expensive.

Fergalicious

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Well they probably won't be too friendly anyway.

Another car crashed into me 2 years ago, basically I was turning right and he tried to overtake me, he even crossed a solid white line to overtake and it was a legal right turn. Pretty open and shut case as far as I was concerned

He made up some bullshít about me not indicating (which I was) and his insurance company was insisting on 50/50. But I wouldn't accept it and hounded them, I rang every 15mins for 3 hours until they sent out an inspector, who thankfully didn't try to argue the case at this point. I never put in a bullshít injury claim, just got my car fixed up and €1800 for depeciation of the vehicle. They also paid for a replacement vehicle while mine was being repaired.

But I would of had to go through my own insurance if I had of just let it go, so be persistant.

My own insurance were about as useful as a pair of tits on a bull. I rang them to let them know what had happened and to see if they could give me some advise.

The useless fcukers advised me to take 50/50 and sent me out claim forms on 2 occasions even though I made it clear I had no intentions of claiming off my own insurance.

So be prepared for shenanigans!

Yay. Lots of fun so! Thanks for letting me know!

Fergalicious

malinheader wrote: »

As I said this was my conclusion. No one can tell you what will happen your premium.
What I am trying to say is if the damage is not to bad to the other vehicle and no personal injuries are being sought, it could end up being cheaper to fix the other car yourself if possible and not to expensive.

He's already called the insurance company so I did too as it's in the policy to inform them of an incident.

Huntergonzo

Valeria Brave Gunpowder wrote: »

Well they didn't specifically say it was hiked because of that, it just mysteriously doubled on my next renewal after the accident.

Even though its a no fault incident (and luckily the guy who crashed into me was honest and genuine) it still gets recorded on your policy.

So when you look for a quote from another insurance company the question along the lines of 'have you been involved in and claims or incidents in the last 5 years' you have to let them know even if it's not your fault.

Anyway I managed to move insurance companies after that hike regardless and got a much cheaper and better deal elsewhere.

It's absolutely scandolous to up someone's insurance just because they were involved in an accident that wasn't even their fault and their own insurance was completely unaffected.

Same happened to me but I moved and got even cheaper insurance than I was paying before the accident. I move every year to be honest because it's always cheaper to move.

My favourite question though (it's absolutely brilliant) is: 'any accidents regardless of liability'. As if liability doesn't matter, the fact that you were part of the crash means you're guilty.

It's like asking somone, 'any rape, regardless of liability', it's absolutely ridiculous!

_Brian

You drove off not knowing there was a car in front of you and you drove into the back of it.
100% in the wrong.

Huntergonzo

Huntergonzo wrote: »

and €1800 for depeciation of the vehicle.

You did well. Normally depreciation is capped at 10% of net of VAT repair cost (of less than 3 year old cars). Although they may have been eager to settle in full to wipe out possibility of a personal injury claim.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

malinheader wrote: »

As I said this was my conclusion. No one can tell you what will happen your premium.
What I am trying to say is if the damage is not to bad to the other vehicle and no personal injuries are being sought, it could end up being cheaper to fix the other car yourself if possible and not to expensive.

When the guy crashed into me I offered him the opportunity to just pay for damage and not involve insurance, I got a quote of €800 from a local business (that was for new electric wing mirror, panel beater for drivers door and respray of three driver side panels plus spray new mirror) which he declined.

He told me he would go through his insurance instead, I was sent a copy of the final bill from insurance for repairs which was €2000.

And that's just the amount before both me and him paid the hiked up premiums.

Huntergonzo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You did well. Normally depreciation is capped at 10% of net of VAT repair cost (of less than 3 year old cars). Although they may have been eager to settle in full to wipe out possibility of a personal injury claim.

Yes I can't remember exactly how the figure was calculated, the car was only 1.5 years old and there was a fair amount of damage done. It might have been 20% repair costs, can't really remember.

I told his insurance straight off the bat that I had no intentions of putting in an injury claim, because thankfully there wasn't a scratch on me and I wasn't even sore. He ploughed into the front right wheel at about 70km/hr, if he'd have hit the driver door it would have made bits of me!

I'd say his insurance felt they got away with one because it was the type of crash where a lot of people would have put in an injury claim. I have no time for that though.

I detest anybody who makes false injury claims, they're vermin who cost us all and put a lot of stress on people.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Huntergonzo wrote: »

My favourite question though (it's absolutely brilliant) is: 'any accidents regardless of liability'. As if liability doesn't matter, the fact that you were part of the crash means you're guilty

I was told that apparently if you are involved in an accident (even where its 100% no fault) you are deemed to be a bigger insurance risk and more likely to be involved in an accident in future, hence the premium hike.

I moved too after being with the same company for 10+ years and I ended up saving a fortune.

blade1

Fergalicious wrote: »

Wait, what? This is ridiculous. How can they raise your premium even though somebody hit you?

You don't need to have an accident for them to double your insurance.
They've tried doubling mine several times over the years and no accidents.
That's part of the reason I change company every year with the last 20 years.
I think if you've a claim you can't change for at least another year though.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

blade1 wrote: »

You don't need to have an accident for them to double your insurance.
They've tried doubling mine several times over the years and no accidents.
That's part of the reason I change company every year with the last 20 years.
I think if you've a claim you can't change for at least another year though.

As far as I know, if the claim is closed then you're good to go.

blade1

Valeria Brave Gunpowder wrote: »

As far as I know, if the claim is closed then you're good to go.

Yeah I wouldn't be certain on the been stuck with them bit as I haven't had put it to test (touch wood).

As for the accident, it's a pity poor use of indicators isn't punished more.
A lot of people seem not even arsed to put them on when turning (especially at roundabouts).

FishOnABike

Valeria Brave Gunpowder wrote: »

As far as I know, if the claim is closed then you're good to go.

But a significant number of other companies either will not quote or will quote a "we're not interested" premium if you have had an accident or claim in the last X number of years.

Huntergonzo

Huntergonzo wrote: »

I detest anybody who makes false injury claims, they're vermin who cost us all and put a lot of stress on people.

I agree. A good few years ago a Pajero driver drove into the drivers side of my car. Thankfully he mostly hit the engine of my car. My A6 was a write off and although I was forcibly flung sideways I walked away without a scratch, although fairly shook up. His car was wrote off also. I didn't make a PI claim.

But, here's the funny thing, the rear ending I was in back in August had a far less impact and I came out a lot worse. I have put in a personal claim. Ironically against the same insurance company I didn't claim against the first time.

Ironic, because I've had twinges in my back over the years that I suspect may have come from the first crash.

Huntergonzo

Valeria Brave Gunpowder wrote: »

I was told that apparently if you are involved in an accident (even where its 100% no fault) you are deemed to be a bigger insurance risk and more likely to be involved in an accident in future, hence the premium hike.

I moved too after being with the same company for 10+ years and I ended up saving a fortune.

It's completely bs, it's just an excuse to rip you off.

I'm on my 4th insurance company in 4 years. I had stuck with my original insurance company for years and was paying €950 per year.

It was a stupid thing to do that cause I'm now paying €460 per year for the same cover. Amazing what you can get done when you shop around!

Huntergonzo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I agree. A good few years ago a Pajero driver drove into the drivers side of my car. Thankfully he mostly hit the engine of my car. My A6 was a write off and although I was forcibly flung sideways I walked away without a scratch, although fairly shook up. His car was wrote off also. I didn't make a PI claim.

But, here's the funny thing, the rear ending I was in back in August had a far less impact and I came out a lot worse. I have put in a personal claim. Ironically against the same insurance company I didn't claim against the first time.

Ironic, because I've had twinges in my back over the years that I suspect may have come from the first crash.

Well look if you've been injured then you have a legitimate injury claim, no issue there.

If I'd have been injured I would have put in an injury claim, but given the circumstances of my crash I would likely have been badly injured so I'm hugely relieved to have walked away totally unscathed.

malinheader

Valeria Brave Gunpowder wrote: »

When the guy crashed into me I offered him the opportunity to just pay for damage and not involve insurance, I got a quote of €800 from a local business (that was for new electric wing mirror, panel beater for drivers door and respray of three driver side panels plus spray new mirror) which he declined.

He told me he would go through his insurance instead, I was sent a copy of the final bill from insurance for repairs which was €2000.

And that's just the amount before both me and him paid the hiked up premiums.

A good while back the wife was quoted 800 to fix a bit of damage which was done to front bumper of vehicle during frost. She decided to put it through her insurance. Total cost of repairs 1850 .welcome to rip off Ireland.