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First day of Spring

  • 31-01-2020 10:07am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭ oriel36


    Tomorrow is the first day of Spring if humanity so chooses to break the annual circuit of the Earth into 4 divisions just as it breaks the day into sunrise/noon/sunset including the temperature fluctuations. There is no astronomical noon vs meteorological noon based on the temperature lag post noon and neither did our ancestors on this island celebrate their festivals in any other fashion than midwinter on the December Solstice.

    Six weeks either side of the Solstice roughly puts the dates as November 1st as the beginning of winter and January 31st as the end of winter within the four division framework.

    https://prairieecosystems.pbworks.com/f/1179343887/crerar%20temperature%20variation.jpg


    At 12 noon, a person's location is midway to the circle of illumination with sunrise where their location exits the circle of illumination (sunrise) is symmetrical from noon with sunset when a location re-enters the circle of illumination at sunset.

    https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/ireland/dublin



    On the December Solstice, the North and South Poles are midway to the circle of illumination -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OgLCH7jYp8&t=40s

    Much like the daily rotation cycle, temperatures tend to fall after the December Solstice in the Northern hemisphere and continues to rise in the Southern hemisphere -

    https://weather-and-climate.com/uploads/average-temperature-tasmania-hobart.png


    It is crucial to put all this in context as the indulgence of creating the astronomical seasons vs meteorological seasons is losing cause and effect in areas such as Arctic sea ice evolution or hurricane season.

    When tv meteorologists show up and announce that March 1st is the start of Spring, they are doing their viewers no favours and at variance with the stable principles of what is midwinter/midsummer on this island.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,556 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk


    It isn't spring until March 1st ffs


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,665 ✭✭✭✭ JCX BXC


    At this stage I can actually predict the posts that come up everywhere. And exactly when they'll come too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,560 ✭✭✭✭ sryanbruen


    JCX BXC wrote: »
    At this stage I can actually predict the posts that come up everywhere. And exactly when they'll come too.

    Certainly far easier to predict than the weather and that’s an understatement.

    Weather and climate site - https://www.ukandirelandclimate.com/ (advised to view on PC, not optimised for mobile)

    Photography site - https://www.sryanbruenphoto.com/



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,852 ✭✭✭ pauldry


    Theres a tornado blowing here...did you predict that?

    Anyways 12c in January is pretty Springlike but then again 12c in June wont be


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭ hawkwing


    Was wondering what temperature range you could possibly have here at 2pm on any day of the year? 9c-15c possibly?? We seem to be getting 13c for example in both Dec/Jan and June recently..


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,952 ✭✭✭ $hifty


    It isn't spring until March 1st ffs

    Yep, we were taught in school:

    Winter: Dec / Jan / Feb
    Spring: Mar / Apr / May
    Summer: Jun / Jul / Aug
    Autumn: Sep / Oct / Nov


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,240 ✭✭✭✭ Cee-Jay-Cee


    $hifty wrote: »
    Yep, we were taught in school:

    Winter: Dec / Jan / Feb
    Spring: Mar / Apr / May
    Summer: Jun / Jul / Aug
    Autumn: Sep / Oct / Nov

    Yeah but typically, at least in the last decade or two, May has been the best month of the year which would indicate it should be a summer month. At the end of the day it doesn’t really make any difference as we can get 4 seasons in the space of a week at any time of year here in Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭ oriel36


    Unlike other undisciplined approaches which create silly indulgences of astronomical seasons vs meteorological seasons, this is precise and the future standard for discussing the topic.

    The astronomical framework for the cyclical seasonal points in the Northern hemisphere is the March Equinox, the June Solstice and the September Equinox reflecting the position of the North Polar latitude with respect to the circle of illumination. In terms of the Polar day/night cycle this is represented as polar sunrise (March Equinox) polar noon (June Solstice) and polar sunset (September Equinox). The daily cycle imitates the larger cycle with a sunrise/noon/sunset each 24 hour day with the familiar rise in temperature past noon and declining thereafter around 3 PM, after all, temperatures rise past the June Solstice and start to decline a number of months later.


    The stylish people who once lived on this island created midwinter on the December Solstice and both winter and Solstice are locked together both as a meteorological term (Winter) and an astronomical term (Solstice).


    The penchant of intellectual thugs to create unnecessary astronomical vs meteorological seasons is in defiance of the traditions of this island which remain accurate and precise. If people attempt to dislodge midwinter from the Solstice they are no better or worse than vandals who are unable to appreciate how Irish society once presented their knowledge of the seasons in an astronomical framework. I love what our ancestors did albeit in this crude world -

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listoghil


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,370 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    Just took a little walk out there and its very pleasant in the sunshine today.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭ victor8600


    oriel36 wrote: »
    The stylish people who once lived on this island created midwinter on the December Solstice and both winter and Solstice are locked together both as a meteorological term (Winter) and an astronomical term (Solstice).

    Are you not contradicting your own OP then and announcing the change of seasons a bit too early? If the 21st of December is midwinter, then the spring is starting on the 5th of February.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭ oriel36


    victor8600 wrote: »
    Are you not contradicting your own OP then and announcing the change of seasons a bit too early? If the 21st of December is midwinter, then the spring is starting on the 5th of February.

    The Solstices of midwinter and midsummer have always been celebrated on this island for while weather changes from year to year, the anchor for the annual festivals always recognised the astronomical components based on daylight/darkness asymmetries. If you can extract midwinter from the Solstice then be my guest, the only way such vandalism could occur was if a meteorological vs astronomical seasons could be conjured up within living memory.

    It demonstrates that people neither know nor care how and why temperature responds daily and annually for the daily 24 hour cycle mirrors the annual cycle with a temperature lag after daily noon until around 3 PM or after Solstice noon (midsummer) into July and August.

    The calendar of January,February, March... is an approximation of the annual cycle not a dictator of it so the anchor for Winter always coincides with the December Solstice in the Northern hemisphere with the closest calendar month representing the start and end of Winter, in this case November 1st and February 1st .

    Let's invent meteorological noon vs astronomical noon if that's the case but that sounds so ridiculous, it is beneath the dignity of people on this island to contemplate. Yet they invented the astronomical seasons vs meteorological seasons like intellectual thugs who never think things through.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,560 ✭✭✭✭ sryanbruen


    hawkwing wrote: »
    Was wondering what temperature range you could possibly have here at 2pm on any day of the year? 9c-15c possibly?? We seem to be getting 13c for example in both Dec/Jan and June recently..

    Coincidentally enough, I recently did an exercise on Casement Aerodrome's record high and low maximum temperatures for every month of the year which gives a good idea of the kind of daytime temperature range that we can get at a particular point in the year although of course, records are always there to be broken.

    These were the results:

    January; -3.8 to 15.4C
    February; -1.0 to 17.2C
    March; -0.7 to 21.0C
    April; 3.3 to 22.7C
    May; 5.4 to 24.9C
    June; 8.2 to 27.6C
    July; 10.6 to 31.0C
    August; 12.0 to 30.5C
    September; 9.7 to 25.4C
    October; 5.2 to 21.3C
    November; -1.1 to 17.7C
    December; -3.6 to 15.4C

    Data from Met Éireann.

    These ranges only take max temperatures into account, not mins, and is only one station. Inland stations will have bigger ranges than coastal stations for self explanatory reasons but the spread should be similar through the year for whatever station you look at.

    Weather and climate site - https://www.ukandirelandclimate.com/ (advised to view on PC, not optimised for mobile)

    Photography site - https://www.sryanbruenphoto.com/



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,971 ✭✭✭ Assetbacked


    I don't recall winter happening yet. Dublin location.


  • Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭ oriel36


    It isn't spring until March 1st ffs

    That 'give me spuds,bacon and cabbage and enough of this midwinter shyte' response is what I would expect from those who have no respect for the great astronomical traditions on this island that stretch back to remote antiquity.

    People once lived with nature on this island and represented their knowledge in the most exquisite form built into their monuments including the midwinter point.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.2913468.1482572627!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/ratio_4x3_w1200/image.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭ hawkwing


    sryanbruen wrote: »
    Coincidentally enough, I recently did an exercise on Casement Aerodrome's record high and low maximum temperatures for every month of the year which gives a good idea of the kind of daytime temperature range that we can get at a particular point in the year although of course, records are always there to be broken.

    These were the results:

    January; -3.8 to 15.4C
    February; -1.0 to 17.2C
    March; -0.7 to 21.0C
    April; 3.3 to 22.7C
    May; 5.4 to 24.9C
    June; 8.2 to 27.6C
    July; 10.6 to 31.0C
    August; 12.0 to 30.5C
    September; 9.7 to 25.4C
    October; 5.2 to 21.3C
    November; -1.1 to 17.7C
    December; -3.6 to 15.4C

    Data from Met Éireann.

    These ranges only take max temperatures into account, not mins, and is only one station. Inland stations will have bigger ranges than coastal stations for self explanatory reasons but the spread should be similar through the year for whatever station you look at.
    Brilliant stuff-cheers:) Surprised the August min is as high as 12c,so that means historically if someone told you it was between 12-15.4c and you didn't know the date it could be any of the 365 days of the year in Ireland.Often thought on days about 13-14 in January that it could almost be any day of the year and it's true:o


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,852 ✭✭✭ pauldry


    These are Irelands seasons

    Jan to Dec bar one week and a day Autumn
    One week in May Summer
    A Day Winter (was last Monday)

    Spring a day in December that's milder than normal with daffodils growing


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,952 ✭✭✭ $hifty


    Yeah but typically, at least in the last decade or two, May has been the best month of the year which would indicate it should be a summer month. At the end of the day it doesn’t really make any difference as we can get 4 seasons in the space of a week at any time of year here in Ireland.

    Crazy talk. For one, June/July/August are almost always better in terms of weather since time immemorial. Secondly, you can't just arbitrarily move the seasons based on localised weather patterns, that's just bananas. If we had a heatwave in February would you be calling it summer time?


  • Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭ oriel36


    Oriel, post your nonsense somewhere else. You've already hijacked the CC3 thread with repeated trolling posts based on medieval gibberish. Go and get some help.

    Considering you unfortunates fell for a solar vs sidereal day conjured up by the 17th century Brits, you would now challenge the ancient heritage of this island as to when midwinter is by conjuring up astronomical winter vs meteorological winter.

    It is impossible to extract midwinter from the Solstice observation for then you are challenging the normal rise and fall in temperatures after the June and December Solstices but it doesn't stop these thugs from trying.


    People of common sense know it can't be done for the simple reason that there is no astronomical vs meteorological noon due to normal daily temperature responses and there sure isn't meteorological vs astronomical seasons on the same account.

    Being a disgrace on account of Royal Society academics is not a crime but neither is it anything only vandalism in the face of all that is great and good on this island. You are the unionists of the astronomical and Earth science world by not knowing what is important for people of this land and its remarkable heritage stretching back thousands of years

    Who would destroy the links between the motions of the planet and its Solstice/Equinox milestones with the seasonal fluctuations in temperatures corresponding to those points ?.

    All too small for me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭ oriel36


    $hifty wrote: »
    Crazy talk. For one, June/July/August are almost always better in terms of weather since time immemorial. Secondly, you can't just arbitrarily move the seasons based on localised weather patterns, that's just bananas. If we had a heatwave in February would you be calling it summer time?

    Crazy talk indeed - well then create astronomical noon vs meteorological noon using the same 'thinking', if it can be dignified as such.

    The 4 seasons are identified by the location of the North and South Poles in relation to the circle of illumination and the stationary Sun with polar noon, the Solstice and midwinter occurring when the North Pole is located midway to the circle of illumination on the December Solstice.

    All temperatures follow in the same way temperatures rise past noon while temperatures rise past the June Solstice otherwise linking planetary motions to temperature responses on the surface becomes impossible !.

    People are being far too careless with material they should handle with care and consideration. When a tv meteorologist shows up on March 1st and declares Spring has arrived using reasoning no human being with common sense would accept I cringe as I have since it started to emerge in recent memory.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,468 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Meteorite58


    Mod Note: This thread is locked and under review until further notice.




    After review this thread shall remain closed as it serves only to goad and troll others as per the thread 'CC3 -- Why I believe that a third option is needed for climate change '



    Moderator Warning : oriel36 your aggressive and trolling posting style, demeaning references to other members, and the repeated soap boxing of your ideas are not welcome. If you persist, you may be carded and banned.


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