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Former Union "niceguy" Folau signs for League Dragons: Trolling begins

  • 28-01-2020 3:59pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,642 ✭✭✭ Cork_exile


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,553 ✭✭✭✭ errlloyd


    In 2020 Sonny Bill Williams the tolerant Muslim will travel from Canada to France to play against Israel Folou the extremist Christian, in the English Super Rugby League. A sport neither of them played a year ago. What a timeline.


  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭ hahashake


    errlloyd wrote: »
    In 2020 Sonny Bill Williams the tolerant Muslim will travel from Canada to France to play against Israel Folou the extremist Christian, in the English Super Rugby League. A sport neither of them played a year ago. What a timeline.

    Umm...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭ Pauliedragon


    It's funny how the gay people I know couldn't give a ****e what he puts on instagram yet my straight friends are in uproar. The more airtime people give it the more he's going to do it. Just ignore him he'll go away.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,642 ✭✭✭ Cork_exile


    It's funny how the gay people I know couldn't give a ****e what he puts on instagram yet my straight friends are in uproar. The more airtime people give it the more he's going to do it. Just ignore him he'll go away.

    Except that there are gay players afraid to come out and allowing this crap will reinforce their belief that they are right to hide it.
    It's us straight players/fans who have the voice and should use it. It may not shut him up (nothing would) but it will make those hiding their sexuality, from fear, realise that most people will not care, at least, and generally be supportive.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,553 ✭✭✭✭ errlloyd


    hahashake wrote: »
    Umm...

    I know both of them had played it (to a v high level). But they weren't playing it a year ago.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭ hahashake


    errlloyd wrote: »
    I know both of them had played it (to a v high level). But they weren't playing it a year ago.

    Ambiguous wording.:p

    They both grew up and went pro playing it, and it will be SBWs 3rd stint. So not that strange.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭ Digifriendly


    errlloyd wrote: »
    In 2020 Sonny Bill Williams the tolerant Muslim will travel from Canada to France to play against Israel Folou the extremist Christian, in the English Super Rugby League. A sport neither of them played a year ago. What a timeline.

    Can you explain the term 'tolerant Muslim' as opposed to 'extermist Christian.'?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,553 ✭✭✭✭ errlloyd


    Can you explain the term 'tolerant Muslim' as opposed to 'extermist Christian.'?

    Sure, but this is horrifically off topic, it was a flippant observation! Simply Sonny Bill Williams is a man of faith and principle, who strictly adheres to personal aspects of his religion (Ramadan and a refusal to accept sponsorship from financial institutions that profit from surety), even when they might hard his career. But seemingly does not apply his religion to others. He's worked with refugees and humanitarian organisations. In some ways he's a model.

    Folou is many of the worst aspects of faith. He applies his dogma without question to others. He only applies the aspects of his faith that work for him. He's unapologetic for the hurt he causes. SBW reaction to the shooting crisis in NZ was to mourn and share the pain. Folous reaction to the bushfires in Australia was to proselytise and blame.

    The reference to Christianity and Islam was merely to point that our western society (and American society in particular) would typically characterise them differently.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 Former Former


    errlloyd wrote: »

    Folou is many of the worst aspects of faith. He applies his dogma without question to others. He only applies the aspects of his faith that work for him. He's unapologetic for the hurt he causes. SBW reaction to the shooting crisis in NZ was to mourn and share the pain. Folous reaction to the bushfires in Australia was to proselytise and blame.

    He would see it differently. He'd say that his faith is a package deal and he has to abide by all of it. He thinks that God dictates that homosexuals are going to hell, and he can't decide off his own bat that this isn't actually the case.

    Compare that with your average Irish Catholic, whose religion says exactly the same thing about gays, but they all choose to simply ignore that bit of it (and other bits they don't like).


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭ ClanofLams


    He would see it differently. He'd say that his faith is a package deal and he has to abide by all of it. He thinks that God dictates that homosexuals are going to hell, and he can't decide off his own bat that this isn't actually the case.

    Compare that with your average Irish Catholic, whose religion says exactly the same thing about gays, but they all choose to simply ignore that bit of it (and other bits they don't like).

    No bible expert but doesn’t it also forbid many activities he engages in, tattoos, alcohol etc?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,599 ✭✭✭✭ stephen_n


    He would see it differently. He'd say that his faith is a package deal and he has to abide by all of it. He thinks that God dictates that homosexuals are going to hell, and he can't decide off his own bat that this isn't actually the case.

    Compare that with your average Irish Catholic, whose religion says exactly the same thing about gays, but they all choose to simply ignore that bit of it (and other bits they don't like).

    Well he chooses to ignore all the bits about love, compassion, charity and most of all not judging people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,103 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye


    Folau just has to play well and say nothing for one season and he'll have a big fat Union contract in France or somewhere else in Europe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    He would see it differently. He'd say that his faith is a package deal and he has to abide by all of it. He thinks that God dictates that homosexuals are going to hell, and he can't decide off his own bat that this isn't actually the case.

    Compare that with your average Irish Catholic, whose religion says exactly the same thing about gays, but they all choose to simply ignore that bit of it (and other bits they don't like).

    Odd he's no issue working on a Sunday and mixing his fabrics.

    He's oddly a fan of shellfish too
    https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelFolau/comments/bc9rwo/israel_folau_needs_to_repent_for_eating_shellfish/

    It gets odder and odder....


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,103 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye


    stephen_n wrote:
    Well he chooses to ignore all the bits about love, compassion, charity and most of all not judging people.
    All he did was post a Bible quote. This is what caused the furore.
    Since then he spoke about the bush fires which for me was much more alarming but it's not considered important because it's not anti-gay.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 Former Former


    ClanofLams wrote: »
    No bible expert but doesn’t it also forbid many activities he engages in, tattoos, alcohol etc?

    There is a difference between something being in the bible and it being part of your religion though.

    I'm no expert either but I would imagine there is a whole lot of contradictory stuff in there, ie is it even possible to obey it all? I'd struggle to see how Christianity would forbid alcohol though.


  • Subscribers Posts: 36,254 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat


    There is a difference between something being in the bible and it being part of your religion though.

    I'm no expert either but I would imagine there is a whole lot of contradictory stuff in there, ie is it even possible to obey it all? I'd struggle to see how Christianity would forbid alcohol though.

    any book written in three different languages, over the length of 1,500 years by about 40 different people is bound to have contradictions

    ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,308 ✭✭✭✭ prawnsambo


    eagle eye wrote: »
    All he did was post a Bible quote. This is what caused the furore.
    Since then he spoke about the bush fires which for me was much more alarming but it's not considered important because it's not anti-gay.
    I thought he said it was God's punishment for the legalisation of same-sex marriage?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub


    There is a difference between something being in the bible and it being part of your religion though.

    I'm no expert either but I would imagine there is a whole lot of contradictory stuff in there, ie is it even possible to obey it all? I'd struggle to see how Christianity would forbid alcohol though.

    You were just giving out about a la cart Catholics in Ireland now your saying you can pick and choose ? You can't have it both ways


  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭ hahashake


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Folau just has to play well and say nothing for one season and he'll have a big fat Union contract in France or somewhere else in Europe.

    As I mentioned in the general thread, SBW is on the biggest contract ever for either code playing for the Toronto Wolfpack, so it's possible Folau is earning a very competitive amount playing for the Catalan Dragons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭ Digifriendly


    I am both a rugby fan and a Christian and I do not wish to enter into a theological debate in what is a rugby forum but for those who have time this video gives an interesting perspective from another Christian and former rugby international Nick Farr Jones - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqeI9RgKLmg


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,308 ✭✭✭✭ prawnsambo


    You were just giving out about a la cart Catholics in Ireland now your saying you can pick and choose ? You can't have it both ways
    He was talking about a la carte religions though. And there are plenty of them around.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭ Richie_Rich89


    ClanofLams wrote: »
    No bible expert but doesn’t it also forbid many activities he engages in, tattoos, alcohol etc?

    It's strange. The people who bang on about Jesus the most and being "saved" and what not are also the ones who most espouse Old Testament fire and brimstone stuff and seem to reject the concept of 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'. Like, if Jesus was around today would he really be against homosexuality?
    errlloyd wrote: »
    Sure, but this is horrifically off topic, it was a flippant observation! Simply Sonny Bill Williams is a man of faith and principle, who strictly adheres to personal aspects of his religion (Ramadan and a refusal to accept sponsorship from financial institutions that profit from surety), even when they might hard his career. But seemingly does not apply his religion to others. He's worked with refugees and humanitarian organisations. In some ways he's a model.

    Folou is many of the worst aspects of faith. He applies his dogma without question to others. He only applies the aspects of his faith that work for him. He's unapologetic for the hurt he causes. SBW reaction to the shooting crisis in NZ was to mourn and share the pain. Folous reaction to the bushfires in Australia was to proselytise and blame.

    The reference to Christianity and Islam was merely to point that our western society (and American society in particular) would typically characterise them differently.

    Or maybe SBW is just more media savvy? I'd imagine his views are fairly similar to Folau's https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/88724462/sonny-bill-williams-bmw-sponsorship-reviewed-over-links-to-muslim-extremists

    text of linked article:

    Sonny Bill Williams' friendship with a radical preacher has drawn complaints from community groups and forced his sponsor to respond. Morgan Tait reports.

    BMW is "re-looking" at its ambassador deal with Sonny Bill Williams after complaints about the rugby star's association with controversial Muslim clerics.

    Williams' appointment as one of BMW New Zealand's brand ambassadors was highly publicised in October, but soon after drew an influx of complaints from BMW customers and the LGBT and Jewish communities about Williams' association with two Muslim clerics and a photo in which he is using a salute associated with Isis.

    Articles appeared on Gay Express, on the Whale Oil blog and in motoring publications about the Williams' links to Mufti Ismail Menk and Erbrahim Bham, but it can now be reported that BMW is taking action over the men's links.

    It is understood that a senior BMW manager travelled from Australia to New Zealand to address the issue, and that customers who have complained were told a decision would be reached by the end of January.


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    This story first appeared on Newsroom.co.nz and is republished with permission.
    READ MORE:
    * Sonny Bill Williams putting the hard yards in as he recovers from achilles injury
    * Sonny Bill Williams signs for three years
    * Sonny Bill Williams left starstruck by 'Lightning Bolt' in Rio


    BMW New Zealand's head of corporate communications, Paul Sherley, told Newsroom that Williams' original contract remained unchanged. However, he said the luxury vehicle brand was taking the complaints seriously and "re-looking" at Williams' role.

    Despite widespread publicity from BMW when Williams was appointed as ambassador, there is no mention of him on the company's website alongside other brand ambassadors, shoe designer Kathryn Wilson and chef Josh Emmet. Critical comments about Williams have also been removed from BMW New Zealand's Facebook page, while those comments supporting him remain.

    The controversy stems from Williams' support of Zimbabwe-born Menk who was banned from six UK universities in 2013 for his extreme anti-homosexual views. He described same-sex acts as, "filthy", "wrong" and "acts of immorality".

    Menk was recorded as saying: "With all due respect to the animals, [homosexuals] are worse than those animals".

    While he lives in South Africa, Menk travels the world teaching his religious views and his visits to countries, especially those in the West, are often met with controversy.

    Supporting Menk by re-tweeting and praising his comments saw Australian navy Captain Mona Shindy last year forced to shut down the social media account she ran to promote Islam in the navy.

    The friendship between Williams and Menk has been well documented on social media. The closeness of this relationship has caused complainants to questions whether Williams endorses Menk's homophobic beliefs.

    In a now deleted comment on the BMW New Zealand Facebook page, Greg Woolley said:

    "Seriously guys?! Why would you have SBW as an ambassador?"

    In 2007, Williams was dropped by the brand for off-field behaviour in a bar. Woolley, in his comment, described that behaviour as being "a lot less offensive to the vast majority of mainstream New Zealand than endorsing people…who say gay people are worse than animals. Is your marketing department really that stupid?"

    Another comment on the same page, that has also been deleted, said Williams was making a one fingered "Isis salute" in a photo. The symbol is a long-standing Muslim gesture, but has been widely adopted by Isis soldiers.


    Sonny Bill Williams

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    Always a good night out in Sydney with my brother.

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    When contacted by Newsroom, Sherley said the company was "re-looking" at its agreement with Williams as a result of the complaints.

    "We are certainly very mindful of the complaints around him and we are just re-looking at how we can integrate him.

    "We take all of the complaints very seriously and if there is public opinion that suggests we need to re-look at, or how we are using someone, we will do it."

    Sherley said there had not been a change to the original agreement, and could not confirm when a decision on any changes would be made.

    According to BMW's publicity when it announced Williams' new role with the brand, he was given a $160,000 BMW X5 xDrive 50i in exchange for appearing at sports and social events to promote the BMW lifestyle brand. It is understood that even though the arrangement has been diluted, Williams can continue to use the car.

    Sherley said Williams' absence from BMW's website was because the site had not been updated yet and that he did not attend the ASB Classic, of which BMW is a key sponsor, because none of the brand's ambassadors did.

    He said he did not know why the Facebook comments have been deleted.

    When asked if taking action over the complaints could be seen as anti-Muslim, Sherley said:

    "If there is criticism or complaints made against [any ambassador] we will obviously look to work in a way where we minimise any problems, that goes for our brand and our ambassadors themselves."

    In response to further questions, Sherley said: "The utilisation of representatives in this programme is subject to availability and affinity and is a matter of internal management."

    Williams' manager Khoder Nasser was also contacted by Newsroom. He told a reporter he had a "big fight coming up in Australia and that's what I am concentrating on," before hanging up his phone.

    Federation of Islamic Associations New Zealand (FIANZ) president Haizan Arafeh said there was "no way on earth" that Williams would support hate speech. He said he did not know enough about Menk and Bham to comment on their ideologies, and it would be premature to comment on BMW's stance as no action had been confirmed by the company.

    The one finger salute was a universal Islamic gesture and should not be associated with Isis, he said.

    "Everybody is entitled to their sexual orientation and religious beliefs and I don't see that having Sonny Bill Williams as a BMW ambassador could drive people away from driving BMWs."

    Williams could not be reached for comment.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,308 ✭✭✭✭ prawnsambo


    Could you not have edited that a bit instead of just cutting and paste-dumping it all in here? Including the ads. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭ Richie_Rich89


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Could you not have edited that a bit instead of just cutting and paste-dumping it all in here? Including the ads. :rolleyes:

    I left the ads in specially for you.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,138 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Zzippy


    Pub rules lads. No politics, no religion. You don't want to get barred. Thanks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27 ✭✭✭ TeddyTedhead


    The guy is a bigot and his actions were indefensible.
    He misquoted the Bible and added his own self serving reactionary tripe.

    Galations 5:19-21 has no mention whatsoever of homosexuality..

    He should have been banned from Rugby altogether, permanently.
    It sums up his personality that he knowingly let his Australia team mates down just before the World Cup.

    There is not much between those ears, so stop defending his actions. He's a disgrace to the game, and to himself, and people who defend him only make themselves out to be idiots also.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,743 ✭✭✭✭ Faugheen


    But but free speech!!

    Free speech works both ways.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,454 ✭✭✭✭ salmocab


    Faugheen wrote: »
    But but free speech!!

    Free speech works both ways.

    The problem is people don’t know what free speech is, no where in the world is there consequence free free speech.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,642 ✭✭✭ Cork_exile


    salmocab wrote: »
    The problem is people don’t know what free speech is, no where in the world is there consequence free free speech.

    You are free to say what you want
    I am free to react to it how ever I want, within the law. If I am your employer, this is going to be troublesome

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,454 ✭✭✭✭ salmocab


    Cork_exile wrote: »
    You are free to say what you want
    I am free to react to it how ever I want, within the law. If I am your employer, this is going to be troublesome

    Yes but lots of people don’t need understand that, they think free speech means you can say anything and there be no consequences.


This discussion has been closed.
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