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Electric moped or petrol?

  • 28-01-2020 10:00am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭ Blue Badger


    Hi All,

    I'm looking into purchasing a moped or similar in the next while for use in Dublin instead of the car and tbh only realised just how many electric options are coming to the market.

    In terms of mopeds especially I cannot get over how efficient the small engines are (I've seen up to 188mpg listed!); the efficiencies are incredible to me.

    Which led me to wondering if there's a general cut-off point whereby if the mpg is beyond a certain point it renders the petrol engine as having a lower carbon footprint than whatever the electric would have commanded.

    Does anyone have any notion on this?

    Or, like the increased efficiencies of running a small engine do you see commensurate increases when running electric?

    Cheers,

    Blue


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭ Joe1919


    [IMG]https://cyclingcommentary.typepad.co...1f158ce970c-pi[/IMG]
    Hi All,

    .....In terms of mopeds especially I cannot get over how efficient the small engines are (I've seen up to 188mpg listed!); the efficiencies are incredible to me......

    What often makes a small engine more efficient (in terms of energy used over a given distance) is because the small engine is slower, so the energy required is less. That's because the energy required to overcome air resistance rises considerably with speed.

    https://cyclingcommentary.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83452fe4f69e2015431f158ce970c-pi


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭ Joseph SEE


    Hi All,

    I'm looking into purchasing a moped or similar in the next while for use in Dublin instead of the car and tbh only realised just how many electric options are coming to the market.

    In terms of mopeds especially I cannot get over how efficient the small engines are (I've seen up to 188mpg listed!); the efficiencies are incredible to me.

    Which led me to wondering if there's a general cut-off point whereby if the mpg is beyond a certain point it renders the petrol engine as having a lower carbon footprint than whatever the electric would have commanded.

    Does anyone have any notion on this?

    Or, like the increased efficiencies of running a small engine do you see commensurate increases when running electric?

    Cheers,

    Blue

    There really is such a large choice of different electric options when you start looking at the offerings available in Europe that's it's hard to know which is best.

    As Joe1919 says, speed is going to determine your consumption figures. Electric motors are already efficient (about 4 times that of a petrol engine) that it doesn't matter if the scooter is that much heavier.

    I've read that even the BMW Evolution C Evolution (the Maxi scooter class) is apparently giving figures of 12.4km per kWh on mixed roads. That's a large bike by any metric, weighing in at 275kg.

    Electricity typically costs less than 20 cent per kWh - half that again for night rate. That's 1.6 cent per km (using the 20 cent figure) for the C Evolution.

    I believe that the efficient 50cc fossil scooters use 2.3 litres of petrol to get 100km. At 1.44 Euro per litre that works out at 3.3 cent per km.

    Even the electric maxi scooter is more than twice as cheap to run compared to the most efficient of 50cc fossil scooters. The small electric scooter will do better again. Those 45kph moped scooters can do less than 0.8 cent per km at those lower speeds.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators Posts: 81,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭ biko


    To clarify this thread isn't about the stand-up scooters with questionable legality I have changed the title to moped


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭ zilog_jones


    Real mopeds have bicycle pedals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moped

    A motorbike with a step-through frame is a "scooter", or maybe "motor scooter". This usage of "moped" in the UK and Ireland only comes from arguably incorrect terminology used in legislation for restricted <50cc motorcycles.

    The other things are "kick scooters", though now they're also motorised for extra complication...


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,759 ✭✭✭ MrMusician18


    Surely no one is going to buy an electric scooter over a petrol one based on running costs - both cost a pittance to fuel.

    The real questions are over the initial outlay costs of the respective bikes, range and comfort.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭ koutoubia


    MODS: sorry for resurrecting a zombie thread. If a new thread is needed then no issue.


    I am looking at starting at new job with split shift. The commute is 25km each way so 25 x 4 = 100kms per day.
    I was thinking of the idea of an electric moped like the Artisan but it looks like that may not have the range for one day. The option to recharge may not be available during the day!
    Is an electric moped really not suitable for the distance I will need it for?
    Ta


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭ krissovo


    koutoubia wrote: »
    MODS: sorry for resurrecting a zombie thread. If a new thread is needed then no issue.


    I am looking at starting at new job with split shift. The commute is 25km each way so 25 x 4 = 100kms per day.
    I was thinking of the idea of an electric moped like the Artisan but it looks like that may not have the range for one day. The option to recharge may not be available during the day!
    Is an electric moped really not suitable for the distance I will need it for?
    Ta

    My rule of thumb is to add 25/30% to your range requirements to factor cold/wet weather efficiency reduction and to cover a sidetrack errand or anything like that. You should be looking at a minimum of 130km's of range in the real world.

    Do not factor on unreliable charging for your daily needs to meet your range or you will be disappointed.

    I was looking at the EV200r a few weeks ago as I am ex scooter boy from the 80's and Vespa was my weapon of choice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭ koutoubia


    where were you looking at the EV200?
    Just watched a video review and it looks like it has decent range.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭ krissovo


    One of the lads at my sons GAA club bought one from retro bikes in Dublin. He loves it, I had a quick spin and it brought a big smile to my face.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,995 ✭✭✭ Sabre Man


    Here's one with 80 km range, which could work if you're able to charge it in between your journeys.

    https://electriccarsales.ie/autos/electric-scooter-elon-one/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭ crunchy62


    Any developments on this ... did you buy?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭ koutoubia


    No I didnt buy as I dont think the range is enough at the moment.
    I am now deciding on whether to go for a 50 cc or 125cc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭ crunchy62


    Sort of in the same boat. I'm looking for something for short Sunday spins in the countryside or to tip into the nearest town. I've looked at the Artisan scooters but they seem very expensive. Also looked at www.electriccarsales.ie . The Elon one seems interesting and good spec. but they also do a scooter like the Artisan EV2000r which has a 300 watt motor which seems good value. Other than that, petrol scooters like the Lexmoto Milano or AJS Modena seem to be quite popular but they don't do a 50 cc model any longer I think. Also anyone I've asked seems to think 50 cc is too slow or possibly dangerous on today's roads. I'm on an AM licence so the 125 cc is not a runner. I looked into doing an IBT course but you have to do a theory test before. All this seems too much trouble for a few spins in the country. Hard to know what to do if anything!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭ koutoubia


    Yeah pretty much the same boat.
    I would like to get a Lexmoto Milano 125 but will need to do IBT which adds to the start up cost etc etc.
    I have an AM and A but the A is limited to a 3 wheeler.
    So am now wondering will an IBT free me up to drive a 125 two wheeler.


  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭ crunchy62


    Yep, IBT would allow you drive a 125 with L plates I think but what puts me off is having to study for and take the driver theory test again, then do the IBT, then pass a driving test just to ride a 125 without L plates ... better to de-restrict a 50 cc or electric equivalent to a get a few more mph


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭ koutoubia


    So just doing the IBT will free me up to drive the 125cc with 'L' plates.


  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭ crunchy62


    Yes, I think it will but you must complete the driver theory test to get your Learner Permit before you can complete the IBT


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭ koutoubia


    ok Thanks.
    even though my licence shows A with a code beside it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭ crunchy62


    I probably can't answer this reliably. As far as I knew an "A" licence covered you to ride any motorcycle of any cc. I am not aware of any other category of "A" licence. Also codes added, as far as I'm aware are added conditions to the "A" licence, which may be on medical grounds etc. Beyond this I don't know anymore


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭ koutoubia


    Thanks.
    Appreciate your input.


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