Cold patch on wall with EWI

s7ryf3925pivug

The top part of my bedroom wall is very cold to the touch. the other external walls are not so cold. The wall is not so cold lower down. The room is difficult to keep warm.
The ceiling above it is not cold. There is no sign of a leak in the attic.
A gas pipe goes up through the soffit outside. Might inspect the hole for that.

Any ideas about what could be the cause, or what to do about it?

listermint

Robert Loose Army wrote: »

The top part of my bedroom wall is very cold to the touch. the other external walls are not so cold. The wall is not so cold lower down. The room is difficult to keep warm.
The ceiling above it is not cold. There is no sign of a leak in the attic.
A gas pipe goes up through the soffit outside. Might inspect the hole for that.

Any ideas about what could be the cause, or what to do about it?

Two things to check.

Is their attic insurance in the spot above that corner. Often the insulation isn't right up to the capping block it's an inch or so back.

Was the EWI fitted right to top of block. Most Irish companies seem to half ass it and stop the EWI at the eve level and call it a job done.

s7ryf3925pivug

listermint wrote: »

Two things to check.

Is their attic insurance in the spot above that corner. Often the insulation isn't right up to the capping block it's an inch or so back.

Was the EWI fitted right to top of block. Most Irish companies seem to half ass it and stop the EWI at the eve level and call it a job done.

Hopefully it's the attic insulation. Last winter I discovered there was a big gap in the insulation in the corner (and a mouldy square underneath). I put insulation down but was cognizant of not blocking the airflow. I probably just didn't put it out far enough.

There isn't a similar issue in other rooms I checked so hopefully it's not an issue with the EWI - but if it is an issue with the EWI what can I do about it?

loyatemu

what type of construction is the house itself?

s7ryf3925pivug

I can't tell if the EWI goes beyond the eaves or not. The plaster on it goes up to the eaves, rather than the eaves being around it, but I don't know if that means the EWI under it does too?

s7ryf3925pivug

loyatemu wrote: »

what type of construction is the house itself?

Block built bungalow constructed in 1979.

listermint

Robert Loose Army wrote: »

I can't tell if the EWI goes beyond the eaves or not. The plaster on it goes up to the eaves, rather than the eaves being around it, but I don't know if that means the EWI under it does too?

Pictures would assist.

Do you know what the fascia etc changed at the same time as EWI ? if not chances are its to the eves and not past it meaning you dont have that continuous join between EWI and attic insulation that you would hope to achieve.

Calahonda52

Pictures, pictures, pictures

s7ryf3925pivug

Pics of same area from within the room, in the attic and outside.

There is clearly a bare patch in the attic insulation. Going to cover that as soon as I've posted this. [I will use recycled bottle top stuff which I think is thicker than I would use otherwise, but I have a wound on my hand and have been advised not to put a glove on it or wash it, so the thinner fibreglass stuff I have isnt an option right now.]
How far should the insulation go? Right to the edge if possible, still leaving a gap between it and the felt if possible?

The inside wall looks like it has been damp. This would probably be condensation. Only thing I'm unsure about is that it looks like it's worst under the bit of insulation in the corner that does go out further.

I put down that bit of insulation at the end of 2018 after exposing crumbling extremely mouldy plaster there behind a fitted wardrobe. That part of the ceiling was a black square of mould and the wall there was bad too. It was replastered soon after that.

Can you tell if the ewi goes up all the way from the pics? I have no idea really but I'd guess it does because I've only observed the cold bit in the one room.

I think the fascias were replaced when the ewi was put up. I don't remember where I heard or read that though. They were definitely replaced at some point and I'd be surprised if that was done separately.

listermint

Robert Loose Army wrote: »

Pics of same area from within the room, in the attic and outside.

There is clearly a bare patch in the attic insulation. Going to cover that as soon as I've posted this. [I will use recycled bottle top stuff which I think is thicker than I would use otherwise, but I have a wound on my hand and have been advised not to put a glove on it or wash it, so the thinner fibreglass stuff I have isnt an option right now.]
How far should the insulation go? Right to the edge if possible, still leaving a gap between it and the felt if possible?

The inside wall looks like it has been damp. This would probably be condensation. Only thing I'm unsure about is that it looks like it's worst under the bit of insulation in the corner that does go out further.

I put down that bit of insulation at the end of 2018 after exposing crumbling extremely mouldy plaster there behind a fitted wardrobe. That part of the ceiling was a black square of mould and the wall there was bad too. It was replastered soon after that.

Can you tell if the ewi goes up all the way from the pics? I have no idea really but I'd guess it does because I've only observed the cold bit in the one room.

I think the fascias were replaced when the ewi was put up. I don't remember where I heard or read that though. They were definitely replaced at some point and I'd be surprised if that was done separately.

There's a concerning drain pipe inside that facia board. That's non normal.id check there for leaks . It may be overflowing back behind the ewi and on to the wall behind. Meaning it's defeating the ewi and creating damp.

s7ryf3925pivug

listermint wrote: »

There's a concerning drain pipe inside that facia board. That's non normal.id check there for leaks . It may be overflowing back behind the ewi and on to the wall behind. Meaning it's defeating the ewi and creating damp.

It looks like a drain pipe in that pic but it is actually a cover for a gas pipe.

That was installed a few months ago. We needed to get all the gas lines replaced because there were loads of leaks.

My best guess is that the insulation I put down in the corner has a gap between it and the attic floor that is being hit by a draft. The corner is very hard to reach and I had to kinda shove it into place rather than place it, so it strikes me as probable that I left a gap. I'll try to improve it once my hand has healed enough to use gloves and be able to rinse it.

s7ryf3925pivug

Might the roof be leaking? Water running down the top of the felt and into the wall? How do I tell? Nothing obvious by looking at it from the outside...

listermint

Robert Loose Army wrote: »

Might the roof be leaking? Water running down the top of the felt and into the wall? How do I tell? Nothing obvious by looking at it from the outside...

Looking at condition of your felt I'd be surprised tbh. I think your on the right path with the insulation. It only takes a lift of an inch or so for the wall to be cold and condensation gather. It's been colder recently too which will show up small gaps more clearer than normal

s7ryf3925pivug

I think it might be the gutters. I'll clean them and run a hose to see if the water is going anywhere it shouldn't.

GreeBo

Robert Loose Army wrote: »

I think it might be the gutters. I'll clean them and run a hose to see if the water is going anywhere it shouldn't.

Run the hose before cleaning, always easier to fix something that you can recreate!

MicktheMan

Robert Loose Army wrote: »

1. Any ideas about what could be the cause, 2. or what to do about it?

1. Your ewi does not go past the soffit board.

2. Extend the ewi past the soffit to meet the attic insulation

s7ryf3925pivug

MicktheMan wrote: »

1. Your ewi does not go past the soffit board.

2. Extend the ewi past the soffit to meet the attic insulation

Can you tell that from the photos? Or are you suggesting what the cause might be from reading the first post?

MicktheMan

Robert Loose Army wrote: »

Can you tell that from the photos?

Yes

loyatemu

MicktheMan wrote: »

1. Your ewi does not go past the soffit board.

2. Extend the ewi past the soffit to meet the attic insulation

I was looking at the houses on my road that have EWI and I don't think any of them have the insulation continuing above the soffits (and there's another house in the process of having it done now and they definitely haven't removed the soffits).

Other than the risk of condensation, how much is that likely to reduce the effectiveness of the EWI; presumably they're still seeing most of the benefits?

My impression is that most EWI companies are not following the recommended installation process. (also the gables of these houses are pebbledashed and for the 2 houses where I've seen the EWI being installed, they definitely haven't done anything to smooth/remove the dash either.)

Calahonda52

My 2 pence worth, in addition to the expertise above

1. Hipped corners are notorious for this sort of stuff, especially if the north east corner
2. Soffit does not look ventilated
3. The brown insulation at the hip seems to be out over the wall plate and blocking any air that might be getting into the soffit space and its chilling the wall/ceiling slab
4. the downpipe over the gas pipe may be the source of a lot of cold air, getting in under the aforementioned brown insulation.
5. If this was my gaff, I would strip off the tiles etc at the hip and work at it from that side: extending the ewi will be messy and you could work from above, with just the soffit board as small thermal bridge
6. .

As an aside, should the downpipes not be yellow as per gas regs?

s7ryf3925pivug

1. NW corner in this case. The insulation in the east side of the attic has a second layer though.
2. There are vents (just not in the first pic) l'll attach a pic of one.
3. So I should check if the brown insulation nights be sticking out beyond the surface it is on, as well as making sure there are no gaps underneath it (as well as maintaining a gap between it and the felt)? [This is something I can't do until my hand has healed.]
4. Shove a bit of insulation into it?
5. Any idea of how much it would cost to get this done? [I had to get the garage roof rebuilt because of a sh!t diy job that was done on it by a previous owner, so I don't want to risk the same with the house itself.]

No idea about the colour of the cover for the gas pipes. There is an exposed section with the valves lower down that makes it obvious what it is though. Inspector didn't care anyway.

Calahonda52

Thanks,
The exposed piece in the pipe, unless the top is sealed, will be a 24/7/365 chimney, especially if its windy with negative pressure across the house
google ventilation baffles..
you really need to do the work from the outside
is it a bungalow?

the brown stuff may be blocking the air from getting up into the attic space so it will chill the wall/ceiling

no need for any more pictures, until job is done!

s7ryf3925pivug

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Thanks,
The exposed piece in the pipe, unless the top is sealed, will be a 24/7/365 chimney, especially if its windy with negative pressure across the house
google ventilation baffles..
you really need to do the work from the outside
is it a bungalow?

the brown stuff may be blocking the air from getting up into the attic space so it will chill the wall/ceiling

no need for any more pictures, until job is done!

Bungalow, yes.
Thanks I’ll google that.

listermint

loyatemu wrote: »

I was looking at the houses on my road that have EWI and I don't think any of them have the insulation continuing above the soffits (and there's another house in the process of having it done now and they definitely haven't removed the soffits).

Other than the risk of condensation, how much is that likely to reduce the effectiveness of the EWI; presumably they're still seeing most of the benefits?

My impression is that most EWI companies are not following the recommended installation process. (also the gables of these houses are pebbledashed and for the 2 houses where I've seen the EWI being installed, they definitely haven't done anything to smooth/remove the dash either.)

The whole point of EWI is that it meets the insulation layer in the attic. If you look through any of the manufacturer materials spec drawings and designs it's meant to be a continuous unbroken layer between the ewi and the attic. With area for ventilation to rafters above that join of EWI and attic insulation.

It's just simply not done right in this country. You wouldn't get away with it on the continent but it's grand here because... Well it's grand.

Considered this you have nearly two blocks worth of wall uninsulated above your very expensive ewi wall. Then you have a load of expensive attic insulation not meeting that all around the extremities of the house.

There's a reason manufacturers go to the expense of doing spec docs. And there is a reason installers take easy routes.

Calahonda52

Thanks Lister for that.
I will grant you you are 100% spot on

listermint

This is my insulation running right to the top of the block with soffit removed


All fascia soffit and gutters were then replaced.

listermint

listermint wrote: »

This is my insulation running right to the top of the block with soffit removed


All fascia soffit and gutters were then replaced.

And closer detail. Just about see either side of rafter

listermint

listermint wrote: »

And closer detail. Just about see either side of rafter

Finally below ground . The path was cut up to go down to foundation level.

Sorry for multi post..on phone can't edit fully