Driveway ownership

Cazzums

Hello all can anyone help! I am buying a house which I presumed came with the driveway next to it. However on the land registry map it says the next door neighbour owns both driveways (theirs and mine) Can this be right or would I have entitlement to the driveway? The driveway has my house number on it but the neighbour has painted over my number and claims that it is theirs according to the map. The neighbour has only recently purchased the house next door also. My solicitor appears to be struggling with finding out the information for me. Any ideas on what I can do??? Thanks in advance!

Gumbo

Cazzums wrote: »

Hello all can anyone help! I am buying a house which I presumed came with the driveway next to it. However on the land registry map it says the next door neighbour owns both driveways (theirs and mine) Can this be right or would I have entitlement to the driveway? The driveway has my house number on it but the neighbour has painted over my number and claims that it is theirs according to the map. The neighbour has only recently purchased the house next door also. My solicitor appears to be struggling with finding out the information for me. Any ideas on what I can do??? Thanks in advance!

Land Registry trumps it all.
If its registered as there's, then even by mistake, they own it. They could argue they bought it from the developer, builder, foreman etc and have the Legal Maps to confirm.

Get the seller of the house to sort it out or walk away.

Walk away.

cameramonkey

kceire wrote: »

Land Registry trumps it all.
If its registered as there's, then even by mistake, they own it. They could argue they bought it from the developer, builder, foreman etc and have the Legal Maps to confirm.

Get the seller of the house to sort it out or walk away.

Courts have the final say over land registry but maybe this one is a walk away job.

Cazzums

kceire wrote: »

Land Registry trumps it all.
If its registered as there's, then even by mistake, they own it. They could argue they bought it from the developer, builder, foreman etc and have the Legal Maps to confirm.

Get the seller of the house to sort it out or walk away.

Thanks for your reply. Could there be anything in the deeds or From the management company that even if they own it that I am allowed to park there? It’s the only house within the estate in this situation so I reckon it is an error but not sure if there’s anything I can do about it.

Cazzums

cameramonkey wrote: »

Courts have the final say over land registry but maybe this one is a walk away job.

Thanks for your reply. Could there be anything in the deeds or From the management company that even if they own it that I am allowed to park there? It’s the only house within the estate in this situation so I reckon it is an error but not sure if there’s anything I can do about it.

cameramonkey

Cazzums wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. Could there be anything in the deeds or From the management company that even if they own it that I am allowed to park there? It’s the only house within the estate in this situation so I reckon it is an error but not sure if there’s anything I can do about it.

How old is the house? Is it new? have you talked to the neighbour or neighbours about the situation?

endacl

Is this a neighbour you’d want to live beside? Even if it was sorted?

TheW1zard

If you pm me the ad i can take a look at the folio. It might shed some light on it.

Id walk though

amadangomor

Your neighbour sounds like a right knob. If it was someone reasonable that you could work with I'm sure it would be possible to get the mistake if it is one rectified.

endacl

endacl wrote: »

Is this a neighbour you’d want to live beside? Even if it was sorted?

Agree with this...doesn’t sound like a neighbour I’d want to have even if the driveways sorted ...I’d walk

Cazzums

cameramonkey wrote: »

How old is the house? Is it new? have you talked to the neighbour or neighbours about the situation?

No it was built around 2004. Yes tried to speak to them but all I was told was that it is theirs and to check the maps. Each driveway holds three cars and I’m baffled that another house would be given the two driveways. It’s a row of 4 houses and 4 driveways and my house is the only one with this issue. The estate itself has over 100 houses and each house has a driveway.

Victor

Cazzums wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. Could there be anything in the deeds or From the management company that even if they own it that I am allowed to park there? It’s the only house within the estate in this situation so I reckon it is an error but not sure if there’s anything I can do about it.

That it might be an error is largely irrelevant. It will ultimately be down to what contracts say. Developer can't sell you a space they have already sold to someone else.

Markcheese

My last house had the access to my neighbours back garden ( all off set gardens ) attached to it on the deeds, not sure if our solicitor did it in 07, or was done 15 years previous ... We were happy to change it ,even though the owner of the neighbouring house was a total b ..
Depending on the age of the house ,what'd the story be with vacant possession ? ( Squatters rights ) , the current owner could have had the driveway ( what he thought was/is his driveway ) fenced and gated for 15 years or more ... Or
The driveway could have been on his map till recently ..
Either way not your problem ..

jrosen

This is something your solicitor should have picked up on. I would contact land registry yourself, the developer and see what feedback you can get there.
I would imagine its some sort of clerical error as it makes no sense otherwise but still doesnt make life easy for you. Its also going to affect your resale.

cameramonkey

Cazzums wrote: »

No it was built around 2004. Yes tried to speak to them but all I was told was that it is theirs and to check the maps. Each driveway holds three cars and I’m baffled that another house would be given the two driveways. It’s a row of 4 houses and 4 driveways and my house is the only one with this issue. The estate itself has over 100 houses and each house has a driveway.

If the land registry man says it is his land then the only way it can be changed is either him voluntary signing it over to you or you going to court to get the land. You need to go back to the vendor of the house and find out his understanding of what is going on.

There is no way you should continue with the house purchase until this is sorted out.

cameramonkey

Markcheese wrote: »

My last house had the access to my neighbours back garden ( all off set gardens ) attached to it on the deeds, not sure if our solicitor did it in 07, or was done 15 years previous ... We were happy to change it ,even though the owner of the neighbouring house was a total b ..
Depending on the age of the house ,what'd the story be with vacant possession ? ( Squatters rights ) , the current owner could have had the driveway ( what he thought was/is his driveway ) fenced and gated for 15 years or more ... Or
The driveway could have been on his map till recently ..
Either way not your problem ..

Adverse possession(squatters rights) dosnt come into it for the neighbour as it means possession of land inconsistent with the title of the true owner.In this case the neighbour may have title through the land registry maps.

Iodine1

You're lucky you noticed it before closing. Get it sorted or walk. If you don't be prepared to pay big to the neighbours or get used to having their cars parked in "your" drive. And you will have a house you will never be able to sell! Sorting will cost and take time but is a job for the seller.

chooseusername

My solicitor was dragging his heels over something boundary related,
so I contacted land-registry (Waterford office) myself
and asked them to check if there was a mapping error when maps were digitised .
They came back within 2 weeks with reply.
That might be worth a try.

TheW1zard

Cazzums wrote: »

No it was built around 2004. Yes tried to speak to them but all I was told was that it is theirs and to check the maps. Each driveway holds three cars and I’m baffled that another house would be given the two driveways. It’s a row of 4 houses and 4 driveways and my house is the only one with this issue. The estate itself has over 100 houses and each house has a driveway.

Is the driveway within your front wall boundary?

Cazzums

TheW1zard wrote: »

Is the driveway within your front wall boundary?

No it’s an open area with 4 lanes (one for each of the 4 houses) there are two houses either side of the lanes.

Plumbthedepths

Cazzums wrote: »

No it’s an open area with 4 lanes (one for each of the 4 houses) there are two houses either side of the lanes.

I am involved with an issue on my property, it requires a deed of rectification. To be signed by myself and another party. There is no benefit to the other party not signing but we have been trying to get this sorted since September '18. I suspect it will have to a court date, expensive but the stress it has caused is even more damaging. My advice to you, if you have no contracts signed walk away. It really is not worth it, life is hard enough without taking on a known problem.

mlem123

I'm curious is the house ad mentioned the driveway.. If they did then you could use that as a reason to back out

TheW1zard

What estate is it?

Victor

mlem123 wrote: »

I'm curious is the house ad mentioned the driveway.. If they did then you could use that as a reason to back out

Property advertising is not binding - only the contract matters.

Cazzums

So I went to my local council and the original building plans show each house has an allocated driveway and that this driveway belongs to my property. I am awaiting the management company to confirm same before I approach land registry. Surely if the building plans and management company state it is my driveway then there must be something I can do to get it rectified on land registry???

Markcheese

If the neighbouring property ( the guys claiming the extra drive ) was only purchased recently could there have been a minor cock up then either with land registry or their engineer ...
But they seem Keen to take advantage of the situation so it may not be quick ,cheap or simple ...

And there's likely to be resentment on their part if it doesn't end in their favour .. do you really want to live next to that ..
Unless it turns out a very simple error/ misunderstanding ,Try somewhere else ,and put it down to expierience..

Cazzums

Markcheese wrote: »

If the neighbouring property ( the guys claiming the extra drive ) was only purchased recently could there have been a minor cock up then either with land registry or their engineer ...
But they seem Keen to take advantage of the situation so it may not be quick ,cheap or simple ...

And there's likely to be resentment on their part if it doesn't end in their favour .. do you really want to live next to that ..
Unless it turns out a very simple error/ misunderstanding ,Try somewhere else ,and put it down to expierience..

Yes was also recently purchased. Is the land registry edited each time a house is sold?

Apiarist

Cazzums wrote: »

...Is the land registry edited each time a house is sold?

No.

TheW1zard

Land reg takes a few months, in my case 8 months.

But yes it doesnt change outlines.
If you check the folio there might be an addition to it?

cameramonkey

I think its a tricky situation. The land registry is not the final arbitrator of who owns land in Ireland. However if your neighbour has a land registry map with the disputed parking spots on it then it seems that it is his unless you go to court and can prove that that is not the case. If the land registry people have made a mistake then the following. might be of interest.

"When Title is accepted by the Land Registry for registration the original Title Deeds submitted to them as evidence of your ownership of the property are retained and a Folio is produced. A Folio is conclusive evidence of ownership of a property and it is guaranteed by the State to be a true record of the Title to the property. Therefore, the State is bound to indemnify any person who suffers a loss through a mistake made by the Land Registry."

http://brophysolicitors.ie/the-difference-between-registered-and-unregistered-title/

I have been dealing with a situation with a disputed boundary on property that I have bought and unless there is good will on both sides to solve the problem it will takes years to resolve. Ask the vendor to sort the problem out before you buy, its his land and his problem, not yours.
Walk away unless they fix it.

JustAThought

management company has no say in this matter and you have already a prick of a neighbour who seems to know (how?) AND be taking advantage of this situation -they would be within their rights to extend their house or build another onto this (‘your’) driveway and you would be left with nowhere to park your car and an unsellable house.If the land is registered in his folio he owns it. I had similar doubts and solicitor problems eith them fobbing me off when I expressed concerns over parking and driveway ownership/rights and I allowed myself to be fobbed off with promises of management company and sure it’llbe fine...it has been a 14 year nightmare.Fix it or walk away -its not worth it and only when you have lived alongside a knacker of a neighbour will you ever understand what a horrorshow it can be.Fix it legally before you pay or walkaway.Your solicitor should be fighting on your behalf & not fobbing you off to get their payment and leaving you high and dry. I’d walk away from that house.There may even be other houses on the estate still for sale - with a legal driveway.

jonny_b

Cazzums wrote: »

So I went to my local council and the original building plans show each house has an allocated driveway and that this driveway belongs to my property. I am awaiting the management company to confirm same before I approach land registry. Surely if the building plans and management company state it is my driveway then there must be something I can do to get it rectified on land registry???

Even if this is fixed, I wouldn't want to live with the stress this neighbour will cause you in resentment, loud music banging walls, barking dogs etc. I would walk away.
Ask around if you know any locals to find out why the current owner is selling. Could be that it's mainly due to the stress of this situation. Don't make your life a living hell, that's one hell of alot of money to pay for that misery of a life you will receive from it, sorted or not.
Think about your mental health, if you are married and/or with kids think of the affect this could have on your marriage and/or family life.

Edit: find out how long the current owner has had the property, how many owners since it was build. That could tell you something. Also how long has the property been on the market.

Graham

Do nothing. Tell your solicitor to do nothing other than revert to the vendors solicitor to ask them to clarify the ownership of the driveway.

Not your circus, not your monkeys.

mad m

One thing finding a property you like, but an old saying is you can’t pick your neighbours. This neighbour seems a right Prick so will only cause you headaches down the road.

Mickeroo

Seriously do not buy that house. Neighbour sounds like a sociopath. At least you have found this out before living there, consider it a bullet dodged.