Whats happening in your school with correcting mocks

Jane98

Just wondering what is happening in other schools regarding mock corrections.

In my school, we have been directed that from this year payment for mocks corrections must go through the school office so that tax, paye etc can be paid. As a result many teachers who may have corrected them themselves and charged €4 or €5 per paper, now have to charge €10 or are choosing to send them away to be corrected (and possibly badly). As a result, payment doesn't seem to be flying in the door from parents.

With one week to go to our mocks I have yet to receive payment from 2/3 of my students. Our Principal this week addressed the whole staff and informed us that he had received a phonecall from a parent who questioned what would happen if they didnt pay and he informed them that they would still be corrected. He then went on to tell the staff that they would have to correct any papers themselves if students didn't pay.

I'm a Maths teacher with 60 students between JC and LC, each of those sitting 2 papers. Our parents requested the timing of our mocks to be brought forward in recent years so that the students could have their midterm break off but now it seems those same parents don't believe that I and my fellow teachers deserve any midterm break.

I have always chosen to send papers away, for my own wellbeing as I do put a huge effort into my teaching, which I feel would be physically and mentally impossible if I was expected to correct 120 papers.


Any thoughts?

Purefrank128

Why are students expected to privately pay their teachers to mark their mocks? These are not state exams, they are house exams like Christmas tests or class tests and - like every other house exam - if a school decides to have them, then teachers must mark them as part of their normal quotient of non-contact work.

If a teacher has a particularly high number of JC and LC classes, then clearly marking these mocks will take some time and effort - but that same teacher will then not have to mark any Summer exams for those classes later in the year.

Schools choose to run these mocks - they are not recommended by the DES and have no official status. It is bad enough that (most) teachers don't write their own exam papers for the mocks, relying instead on the shoddy products of a couple of companies, but the idea that students should have to pay to have this work marked is astonishing.

Assessing students is a significant aspect of teaching, it is core to the job, and it is a part of what a teacher is paid by the state to do. If you don't want to mark student work, including house exams, including the mocks, then you are always free to leave that school or, if you prefer, leave the profession entirely.

km79

Jane98 wrote: »

Just wondering what is happening in other schools regarding mock corrections.

In my school, we have been directed that from this year payment for mocks corrections must go through the school office so that tax, paye etc can be paid. As a result many teachers who may have corrected them themselves and charged €4 or €5 per paper, now have to charge €10 or are choosing to send them away to be corrected (and possibly badly). As a result, payment doesn't seem to be flying in the door from parents.

With one week to go to our mocks I have yet to receive payment from 2/3 of my students. Our Principal this week addressed the whole staff and informed us that he had received a phonecall from a parent who questioned what would happen if they didnt pay and he informed them that they would still be corrected. He then went on to tell the staff that they would have to correct any papers themselves if students didn't pay.

I'm a Maths teacher with 60 students between JC and LC, each of those sitting 2 papers. Our parents requested the timing of our mocks to be brought forward in recent years so that the students could have their midterm break off but now it seems those same parents don't believe that I and my fellow teachers deserve any midterm break.

I have always chosen to send papers away, for my own wellbeing as I do put a huge effort into my teaching, which I feel would be physically and mentally impossible if I was expected to correct 120 papers.


Any thoughts?

The whole point of mocks is that they are a mock state exam . So should be corrected independently
Defeats the whole purpose and completely devalues them if teachers correct their own

What happens to those that have paid ? Will hey be sent away ?
If not does the school keep the money

Sounds like a mess that has been needlessly created

Caryatnid

Agree with PureFrank! I would have thought it is part of the job description. And when I say that, I mean.... It is for anyone I know working in higher education. Is it in your job description?

I do empathise with the time it takes you to correct, it's not fun, and can be extremely time consuming.

To answer your question about being entitled to a break over midterm - to me, the answer would be no, if you are getting paid for that week, and yes if you don't get paid.

I also think the previous poster made an excellent point regarding the fact that JC and LC teachers don't have summer exams to correct. Do other classes (e.g. 2nd year or 5th year) pay you extra to correct their summer exams?

Jane98

"If a teacher has a particularly high number of JC and LC classes, then clearly marking these mocks will take some time and effort - but that same teacher will then not have to mark any Summer exams for those classes later in the year.

Schools choose to run these mocks - they are not recommended by the DES and have no official status. It is bad enough that (most) teachers don't write their own exam papers for the mocks, relying instead on the shoddy products of a couple of companies, but the idea that students should have to pay to have this work marked is astonishing."

120 papers could take 120 hours to correct well. Just wondering where you think that time should come from PureFrank128?

Schools run the mocks at the request of parents and students. Most teachers I know would prefer to be in the classroom teaching.

km79

Jane98 wrote: »

"If a teacher has a particularly high number of JC and LC classes, then clearly marking these mocks will take some time and effort - but that same teacher will then not have to mark any Summer exams for those classes later in the year.

Schools choose to run these mocks - they are not recommended by the DES and have no official status. It is bad enough that (most) teachers don't write their own exam papers for the mocks, relying instead on the shoddy products of a couple of companies, but the idea that students should have to pay to have this work marked is astonishing."

120 papers could take 120 hours to correct well. Just wondering where you think that time should come from PureFrank128?

Schools run the mocks at the request of parents and students. Most teachers I know would prefer to be in the classroom teaching.

Don’t bother engaging Jane
Different Franks appear from time to time
But their message are always the same
Funny that

Moody_mona

km79 wrote: »

The whole point of mocks is that they are a mock state exam . So should be corrected independently
Defeats the whole purpose and completely devalues them if teachers correct their own

What happens to those that have paid ? Will hey be sent away ?
If not does the school keep the money

Sounds like a mess that has been needlessly created

I disagree. I think teachers can learn a lot about what needs to be revised, from mocks.

Plus if they were actually mock state exams then the marking would be monitored constantly, and that's not what happens anyway.

Corkgirl18

Only English is sent away in my school. Everyone else corrects their own. I've 3 groups this year, one with two papers so should be fun! I also agree that teachers can learn a lot by correcting their own.

Millem

We have to correct our mocks ourselves. I disagree with it. I have corrected plenty of their tests/homework to know where they are at.
I would much prefer an outsider to correct them. I feel they would take more heed of what now has to be done.

In my own subject we have just finished the CBA which is the first time it has been completed. I would say half of the class have “yet to meet expectations”. It is worth 0%.
I am waiting for the fallout at the parent teacher meeting. If it had been the old junior cert....the same project would of been completed but worth 15% and externally marked.

r93kaey5p2izun

I'm not teaching anymore, but we always had to correct our own mocks. It's a DEIS school so charging was not an option. The principal also banned teachers from paying themselves to send them away due to poor quality corrections and it taking too long. I would regularly correct 100-150 papers and yes, it took up my whole midterm. 100 papers would generally have taken min 40 hours to correct. Mocks held before midterm, with results due the Tuesday we came back.

It was an ordeal, but at the same time I think the students have a right to have them corrected without charge unless we make it optional for them to sit them, which would be a logistical nightmare. But I didnt feel any benefit to my teaching from doing corrections, as I would already know well what standard they were at from class tests and assessments. As for not having summer exams to correct, it lightens the load but is not comparable. A summer test is nothing like correcting a full exam paper.

Dr Turk Turkelton

Just a quick one- are you saying that before this year your school were facilitating widespread tax evasion by making cash payments for correcting mock exams?

Treppen

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

Just a quick one- are you saying that before this year your school were facilitating widespread tax evasion by making cash payments for correcting mock exams?

No.
From a schools perspective it was always the case that outsiders took care of their own tax affairs, when you hire a plumber and you hand over the cash, could you be "facilitating tax evasion"¿???
Hire a builder in the school, pay em and let them do whatever they need to do with their books.
However now there's been a clampdown on ANY monies transferring out of a school.

Just do a web search for " school meals financial irregularities Ireland" and that's the tip of the iceberg.

Now at least there is a paper trail.

Big problems for some folk who do a little bit of after school activities or Ty coaching modules etc. But I suppose they have to pay their taxes too.

(Apple anyone?)

doc_17

We correct our own. Our parents wouldn’t be able to afford it.

Treppen

I don't agree with charging pupils for mocks against their will. However, I always put it too the class that if they want, they can have it marked independently ,( has to be over a certain number to make it correctors worthwhile) , if there's a student/parent who refuses and wants me to correct I'm fine with that. I see the setting and correcting of exams is my job.

Quality of exam paper company I find is very good quality and it is the first time they'll get a complete runthrough, with proper listening cd. But again, if they refuse to pay then I'll have to come up with my own (but they never do).

120 papers is a lot though. So really in May you should be pushing for alternating exam years with other teachers... If possible.

The CBAs were supposed to replace Summer exams no?.... Didn't think so.

Millem

Treppen wrote: »

I don't agree with charging pupils for mocks against their will. However, I always put it too the class that if they want, they can have it marked independently ,( has to be over a certain number to make it correctors worthwhile) , if there's a student/parent who refuses and wants me to correct I'm fine with that. I see the setting and correcting of exams is my job.

Quality of exam paper company I find is very good quality and it is the first time they'll get a complete runthrough, with proper listening cd. But again, if they refuse to pay then I'll have to come up with my own (but they never do).

120 papers is a lot though. So really in May you should be pushing for alternating exam years with other teachers... If possible.

The CBAs were supposed to replace Summer exams no?.... Didn't think so.

Our CBA has just been completed so they will have a defo have summer test. The new Jc in my subject is beyond a joke.
Even the correcting of the CBA....at least with the old junior cert project they had a marking scheme eg 5 marks for x 10 marks for y total = 15 or whatever.

I have 2 junior cert class groups. I will give them a mock cookery plus a mock written paper plus mark their craft project. Thankfully I don’t have a 6th year group but have reduced my hours this year....usually I would have a 6th year group.

TheValeyard

What is the position of the Unions in regard to Mocks?

Dont see why teachers should have to correct any mocks. Not part of the official job description and takes away time from actual teaching. Fine if a school wishes to send them away and have someone else correct them. But expecting staff to correct during their own free time just isnt going to happen anymore.

Moody_mona

Millem wrote: »

We have to correct our mocks ourselves. I disagree with it. I have corrected plenty of their tests/homework to know where they are at.
I would much prefer an outsider to correct them. I feel they would take more heed of what now has to be done.

I suppose when I say it gives me a better idea of where they're at, obviously sitting an exam that has two or three years worth of work on it will tell you more than a test on coordinate geometry etc.

I do think students would take more heed from independent corrections though, but I suppose you have to trust that the corrector are putting adequate effort in. Has anyone ever tried swapping with another teacher? We have two junior science classes, we could correct each others?

joebloggs32

Treppen wrote: »

I don't agree with charging pupils for mocks against their will. However, I always put it too the class that if they want, they can have it marked independently ,( has to be over a certain number to make it correctors worthwhile) , if there's a student/parent who refuses and wants me to correct I'm fine with that. I see the setting and correcting of exams is my job.

Quality of exam paper company I find is very good quality and it is the first time they'll get a complete runthrough, with proper listening cd. But again, if they refuse to pay then I'll have to come up with my own (but they never do).

120 papers is a lot though. So really in May you should be pushing for alternating exam years with other teachers... If possible.

The CBAs were supposed to replace Summer exams no?.... Didn't think so.

The CBA does replace house exams.....that is once you stand your ground. I will not be correcting summer exams for second years.

I am correcting mocks for free.
Principal will not let mocks out even if a teacher wanted to pay for it themselves. Not a deis school but not a particularly affluent area either with some feeder schools being deis. It's a struggle for some families just to make the payment to purchase the papers.
As others said it's a pain but gives you a good insight into how they're getting on.

joebloggs32

Millem wrote: »

Our CBA has just been completed so they will have a defo have summer test. The new Jc in my subject is beyond a joke.
Even the correcting of the CBA....at least with the old junior cert project they had a marking scheme eg 5 marks for x 10 marks for y total = 15 or whatever.

I have 2 junior cert class groups. I will give them a mock cookery plus a mock written paper plus mark their craft project. Thankfully I don’t have a 6th year group but have reduced my hours this year....usually I would have a 6th year group.

Why dont you use the autonomy you now have in scheduling the CBA and leave it until close to the summer break. This way it easily can be seen to replace your house exam.

RealJohn

I’ve read through the whole thread and I’m still trying to get my head around the OP’s notion that you should be getting paid to mark your own students’ work. I’ve been teaching for fifteen years. It never once occurred to me that I should be getting paid extra for marking the mocks. They’re in house exams.

Thinking back to when I was in school myself, I know we had to pay for our mock papers alright, and some teachers gave us the option (as a class) to pay extra to have them marked externally, with most of them recommending against this as they would be going over the papers themselves when they came back anyway.
I genuinely can’t believe people are getting paid extra to mark their own classes’ mocks. Must be nice to be in a school like that.

I have an objection to giving students long in-house exams in the style of mocks in 2nd year and 5th year (for a few reasons), but I even then, the notion of getting paid extra to mark them never crossed my mind. Marking mocks is very much part of the job. If you’re getting paid extra, shut up and enjoy your free money. If you used to and aren’t anymore, spare a thought for those of us who never have, and don’t moan about it.

Treppen

RealJohn wrote: »

I’ve read through the whole thread and I’m still trying to get my head around the OP’s notion that you should be getting paid to mark your own students’ work. I’ve been teaching for fifteen years. It never once occurred to me that I should be getting paid extra for marking the mocks. They’re in house exams.

Thinking back to when I was in school myself, I know we had to pay for our mock papers alright, and some teachers gave us the option (as a class) to pay extra to have them marked externally, with most of them recommending against this as they would be going over the papers themselves when they came back anyway.
I genuinely can’t believe people are getting paid extra to mark their own classes’ mocks. Must be nice to be in a school like that.

I have an objection to giving students long in-house exams in the style of mocks in 2nd year and 5th year (for a few reasons), but I even then, the notion of getting paid extra to mark them never crossed my mind. Marking mocks is very much part of the job. If you’re getting paid extra, shut up and enjoy your free money. If you used to and aren’t anymore, spare a thought for those of us who never have, and don’t moan about it.

Op here, don't think I mentioned getting paid to mark your own students. I doubt there are any teachers who charge their own students. I totally agree with you, exam setting and correcting is part of your job!

My question was more in relation to why do schools oblige all their teachers to stick with one company?
Not in my school, but I've seen a good few teacher p posts saying same.

Purefrank128

Treppen: "Op here, don't think I mentioned getting paid to mark your own students."

You are not the OP! (I think you are thinking of a different thread.)

The OP did mention correcting her own students work and charging them for it, which, to repeat, is astonishing.

Treppen

Purefrank128 wrote: »

Treppen: "Op here, don't think I mentioned getting paid to mark your own students."

You are not the OP! (I think you are thinking of a different thread.)

The OP did mention correcting her own students work and charging them for it, which, to repeat, is astonishing.

:pac::pac:Totally got my wires crossed sorry.

Charging students to correct their own work yourself is a bit nuts.

RealJohn

Treppen wrote: »

Op here, don't think I mentioned getting paid to mark your own students. I doubt there are any teachers who charge their own students. I totally agree with you, exam setting and correcting is part of your job!

My question was more in relation to why do schools oblige all their teachers to stick with one company?
Not in my school, but I've seen a good few teacher p posts saying same.

You had me confused for a minute there.
As for why schools insist on sticking to one company, I imagine these days, if it’s an ETB school anyway, it’ll be to do with ‘preferred suppliers’ and all of that business. Or many (some?) principals get kick backs from the companies, and therefore favour their own pocket? The former seems likely. I hope the latter isn’t.