God's plan is to unite all things in Christ

theological

Another thought, another thread.


Last week at church we were looking at Ephesians as we were beginning to launch our 10 year vision for ministry in our area. Ephesians is a wonderful letter where Paul reminds the church in Ephesus about who they are and what that means practically for their lives.

I want to look at a bit in chapter 1 and a small bit of chapter 2.

Ephesians 1:3-10 wrote:

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

You can see from the bolded section that God's will is to unite all things in Christ as the Lord of all creation. Not only that, He chose us from the foundation of the world (vs 4) to be His. He has adopted us (vs 5), it wasn't a human right to be chosen by Him, and He has forgiven our trespasses and sins.

I'm going to make a controversial claim this morning. True unity comes through faith in Jesus Christ. As we repent of our sins and come to Him, He is creating a new people in the church to serve Him. All other unity on this earth is superficial and won't last.

Faith in Jesus helps us to see that following Christ is more important than our background, our identity, our sexuality, our culture, or even our religion.

Ephesians 2:11-16 wrote:

Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

At the time when Paul was writing this letter Jews and Gentiles (non-Jews) basically had a mutual hatred to each other. As Christianity spread, Christianity spread to the Gentiles and as the Gentiles discovered Jesus, and as the Jewish people in the church discovered Jesus they were able to lay aside their differences and see that Jesus is more important than their differences. Thus creating one united people in Him.

Questions for Christians:
How does it make you feel to be chosen from the foundation of the world to serve God?


Do you think Jesus brings unity? (why or why not?)


How should we understand denominational groupings given this passage in Scripture?


Questions for non-Christians:
Where do you think that lasting unity comes from?


Do Christians seem united to you? (Why or why not?)

For everyone:
What are the areas of true division in our world today?

antiskeptic

theological wrote: »

How does it make you feel to be chosen from the foundation of the world to serve God?

I don't think I was chosen from the foundation of the world. I think what was chosen from the foundation of the world was what would be applied to those who would become the 'us in hims' (a.k.a. Christians). They would, for example, be made holy and righteous in his sight. He chose that that's what he would do with such people.

It doesn't take away from the magnitude of what being saved means. But if God chose this one and not that one for salvation then it does raise a question about the nature of God. And so our response to being saved.

I don't think 'to serve' is a primary motivation for God setting about saving that which fell. Children of God is the status. And the child/father relationship isn't primarily about service.

Do you think Jesus brings unity? (why or why not?)

I think that is his work direction, whether between believers and believers or believers and unbelievers or unbelievers and unbelievers. He is the light of the world afterall. And all men have access to the light (e.g. conscience).

He works that his kingdom (his optimal way) come and his (optimal) will be done.

Disunity arises out of sin, of course. But also, I think, because the Christian life is a path to progress along, a race to be run. A process.

And because we are in process and not complete and without complete sight(we see through a glass but darkly) we can't hold the final, clear view. And so denominations. Its not necessarily sinful to hold differing views: you are as far along as you are and this theology or that theology describes things best at that point in time.

That said, I think there's a tendency for some to rest in a theology or let others do their thinking for them. Is that sinful (that is, not obeying the exhortation to endeavour to run your best race)? I don't know. Perhaps it is...

smacl

theological wrote: »

Questions for non-Christians:
Where do you think that lasting unity comes from?

Tolerance, fairness, and an acceptance of the diverse nature of humanity.

Do Christians seem united to you? (Why or why not?)

Not really. Christianity is very factional with different factions in constant conflict with one another throughout the course of history. Even in the microcosm of this forum we regularly see individuals who identify as Christian at pains to explain why other people who identify as Christian are not really Christian. This is nothing new, starting with the apostle's creed essentially put in place to mark Gnostic Christians as not really Christian, the great schism, the protestant reformation, and various sectarian feuds that continue to this day. On that basis, I'd suggest Christianity is fractious.

For everyone:
What are the areas of true division in our world today?

Wealth, both within society and between societies in different countries. Discrimination, based on religious belief, gender, race and sexual identity.

one world order

The core is turning away from our sinful nature by turning to Christ. The Holy Spirit works within us to change our heart and bring better intentions. However as the Devil tempts us, it is therefore a constant battle.

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antiskeptic wrote: »

I don't think I was chosen from the foundation of the world. I think what was chosen from the foundation of the world was what would be applied to those who would become the 'us in hims' (a.k.a. Christians). They would, for example, be made holy and righteous in his sight. He chose that that's what he would do with such people.

It doesn't take away from the magnitude of what being saved means. But if God chose this one and not that one for salvation then it does raise a question about the nature of God. And so our response to being saved.

I don't think 'to serve' is a primary motivation for God setting about saving that which fell. Children of God is the status. And the child/father relationship isn't primarily about service.




I think that is his work direction, whether between believers and believers or believers and unbelievers or unbelievers and unbelievers. He is the light of the world afterall. And all men have access to the light (e.g. conscience).

He works that his kingdom (his optimal way) come and his (optimal) will be done.

Disunity arises out of sin, of course. But also, I think, because the Christian life is a path to progress along, a race to be run. A process.

And because we are in process and not complete and without complete sight(we see through a glass but darkly) we can't hold the final, clear view. And so denominations. Its not necessarily sinful to hold differing views: you are as far along as you are and this theology or that theology describes things best at that point in time.

That said, I think there's a tendency for some to rest in a theology or let others do their thinking for them. Is that sinful (that is, not obeying the exhortation to endeavour to run your best race)? I don't know. Perhaps it is...

My Bible says I was chosen in Himbefore the foundation of the world, that Jesus was the lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. That He knew me in my mothers womb. That all the fullness of the Godhead dwells In Him and that I'm complete in Him.
It also says I have everything I need for life and godliness.
Either the Word of God is true or we are the most miserable of people.

Drakus

How is it an imaginery being has a plan, is it an imaginery plan???

theological wrote: »

Another thought, another thread.


Last week at church we were looking at Ephesians as we were beginning to launch our 10 year vision for ministry in our area. Ephesians is a wonderful letter where Paul reminds the church in Ephesus about who they are and what that means practically for their lives.

I want to look at a bit in chapter 1 and a small bit of chapter 2.



You can see from the bolded section that God's will is to unite all things in Christ as the Lord of all creation. Not only that, He chose us from the foundation of the world (vs 4) to be His. He has adopted us (vs 5), it wasn't a human right to be chosen by Him, and He has forgiven our trespasses and sins.

I'm going to make a controversial claim this morning. True unity comes through faith in Jesus Christ. As we repent of our sins and come to Him, He is creating a new people in the church to serve Him. All other unity on this earth is superficial and won't last.

Faith in Jesus helps us to see that following Christ is more important than our background, our identity, our sexuality, our culture, or even our religion.



At the time when Paul was writing this letter Jews and Gentiles (non-Jews) basically had a mutual hatred to each other. As Christianity spread, Christianity spread to the Gentiles and as the Gentiles discovered Jesus, and as the Jewish people in the church discovered Jesus they were able to lay aside their differences and see that Jesus is more important than their differences. Thus creating one united people in Him.

Questions for Christians:
How does it make you feel to be chosen from the foundation of the world to serve God?


Do you think Jesus brings unity? (why or why not?)


How should we understand denominational groupings given this passage in Scripture?


Questions for non-Christians:
Where do you think that lasting unity comes from?


Do Christians seem united to you? (Why or why not?)

For everyone:
What are the areas of true division in our world today?

antiskeptic

Emerald Damp Catamaran wrote: »

My Bible says I was chosen in Him before the foundation of the world

So does mine. It does, of course, depend on how you read your bible.

4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ..

I'm not quite sure what syntax-sense someone choosing someone in someone makes. Whereas, us-in-him (or we (who are) in him) is a term describing status.

Thus, God choose (before the foundation of the world) that people with this status would be made holy and blameless. Similarily, he predestined us (the 'us in hims' that is) for adoption.

These foundation of the world actions (chose and predestining) are applied to the us in hims. Whoever the us in hims would be.

I don't see any need to suppose God chose, from the foundation of the world, who would be put into Christ though. Since the text doesn't say that he chose to put us in Christ.

, that Jesus was the lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. That He knew me in my mothers womb. That all the fullness of the Godhead dwells In Him and that I'm complete in Him.

None of which impacts on whether or not God chose to put certain people into Christ.

It also says I have everything I need for life and godliness.
Either the Word of God is true or we are the most miserable of people.

Having it and availing of/applying it are two different things.

antiskeptic

Emerald Damp Catamaran wrote: »

My Bible says I was chosen in Him before the foundation of the world

So does mine. It does, of course, depend on how you read your bible.

4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ..

I'm not quite sure what syntax-sense someone choosing someone in someone makes. Whereas, us-in-him (or we (who are) in him) is a term describing status.

Thus, God choose (before the foundation of the world) that people with this status would be made holy and blameless. Similarly, he predestined us (the 'us in hims' that is) for adoption. Its about choosing what to do with a people of certain status (us in him > Christians). Not choosing who would be given that status in the first place.

These foundation of the world actions (chose and predestining) are applied to the us in hims. Whoever the us in hims would be.

I don't see any need to suppose God chose, from the foundation of the world, who would be put into Christ though. Since the text doesn't say that he chose to put us in Christ.

, that Jesus was the lamb slain from before the foundation of the world. That He knew me in my mothers womb. That all the fullness of the Godhead dwells In Him and that I'm complete in Him.

None of which impacts on whether or not God chose to put certain people into Christ.

It also says I have everything I need for life and godliness.
Either the Word of God is true or we are the most miserable of people.

Having it and availing of/applying it are two different things.