A-rated wall, drilling into, installing Sky dish

mcbert

Hi,

I'll be moving to an A-rated home soon hopefully in a new estate, and I'm hoping to take my Sky TV subscription with me.

That means installing a satellite dish at the back of the house. I assume the Sky installer will just drill into the main wall. Is that ok on an A-rated house? What else can I do? Or is Sky essentially ruled out on A-rated homes?

Thanks.

awec

Unless you have already asked the electrician to run double-coax cables from outside then you'll have no choice but for them to adrill a hole.

Unless it's a passive house you'll have no issues. The hole is tiny, and will be covered on both ends.

mcbert

awec wrote: »

Unless you have already asked the electrician to run double-coax cables from outside then you'll have no choice but for them to adrill a hole.

Unless it's a passive house you'll have no issues. The hole is tiny, and will be covered on both ends.

I was thinking too about screwing the dish itself to the wall, not just the cable going inside, but yeah, I suppose holes will be very small.

Thanks.

awec

mcbert wrote: »

I was thinking too about screwing the dish itself to the wall, not just the cable going inside, but yeah, I suppose holes will be very small.

Thanks.

Screwing the dish to the wall is no problem, doesn't affect anything.

Gumbo

mcbert wrote: »

Hi,

I'll be moving to an A-rated home soon hopefully in a new estate, and I'm hoping to take my Sky TV subscription with me.

That means installing a satellite dish at the back of the house. I assume the Sky installer will just drill into the main wall. Is that ok on an A-rated house? What else can I do? Or is Sky essentially ruled out on A-rated homes?

Thanks.

Is the house externally insulated?

If not, then the dish will be fixed to the outer leaf.
The insulation layer and Air Tightness layer will be inside the cavity or inside the dwelling so the fixing wont harm this.

Running the cables through is the biggest issue. They will penetrate the air tightness membrane and ideally should be repaired around the cables but this cant be done once built.

Calahonda52

Without knowing the exact wall construction, the OP's question cannot be answered definitively, end of.
It could be EWI
It could be Timber frame, with a ventilated brick/block facade.

Yellow_Fern

As outlined, check if there is an airtightness membrane in the wall. I have seen cases of this when there is no membrane. You can get a sizable cold spot without care. If there is a drywall with double leaf of block you can open up the drywall and fill any gap with cement and sand, ideally with airtightness paint. Even better use a airtightness gasket. I am happy to pm you details of companies that could do this for you if you unsure how to do it yourself to a high standard.

mcbert

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

As outlined, check if there is an airtightness membrane in the wall. I have seen cases of this when there is no membrane. You can get a sizable cold spot without care. If there is a drywall with double leaf of block you can open up the drywall and fill any gap with cement and sand, ideally with airtightness paint. Even better use a airtightness gasket. I am happy to pm you details of companies that could do this for you if you unsure how to do it yourself to a high standard.

Regarding construction, all I can say is the house is part of a small new estate, not a one-off or retrofit/upgrade, and is described as 'standard cavity concrete block construction'. It has a provisional A2 BER. My solicitor is trying to get a better specification now.

So I assume it is not EWI, but I'm no expert. Im pretty sure there is no timber frame involved. I dont know anything about the airtightness membrane, how would I check? I have not moved in yet, it is with our solicitor at the moment. I would not trust the EA that handled the sale to give me accurate answers to technical questions. I really dont want to open up any walls.

So where does that leave me?

Thanks!

Gumbo

mcbert wrote: »

Regarding construction, all I can say is the house is part of a small new estate, not a one-off or retrofit/upgrade, and is described as 'standard cavity concrete block construction'. It has a provisional A2 BER. My solicitor is trying to get a better specification now.

So I assume it is not EWI, but I'm no expert. Im pretty sure there is no timber frame involved. I dont know anything about the airtightness membrane, how would I check? I have not moved in yet, it is with our solicitor at the moment. I would not trust the EA that handled the sale to give me accurate answers to technical questions. I really dont want to open up any walls.

So where does that leave me?

Thanks!

Where is it?
Do you have a planning ref?

mcbert

https://plan.galwaycity.ie/?file_number=18127

Gumbo

mcbert wrote: »

https://plan.galwaycity.ie/?file_number=18127

The planning means nothing but with the reference I can check what they actually lodged to Building Control as construction drawings.

I’ll post up tomorrow.

Yellow_Fern

mcbert wrote: »

Regarding construction, all I can say is the house is part of a small new estate, not a one-off or retrofit/upgrade, and is described as 'standard cavity concrete block construction'. It has a provisional A2 BER. My solicitor is trying to get a better specification now.

So I assume it is not EWI, but I'm no expert. Im pretty sure there is no timber frame involved. I dont know anything about the airtightness membrane, how would I check? I have not moved in yet, it is with our solicitor at the moment. I would not trust the EA that handled the sale to give me accurate answers to technical questions. I really dont want to open up any walls.

So where does that leave me?

Thanks!

Id say there is no membrane from what you say. It might be visible if you poke around enough in the loft but it could be hard to spot. BTW I was not prescribing a different course of action if it is present but I that just have not dealt with that.

I am not sure how Sky installers work but if you don't want to touch the drywall I think it is hard to avoid any negative impact. If the installers drills a hole close to the size of the cable there wont be a huge problem. Even if they drill a large hole it wont make your house a cold house and you could seal it even years later although it is easier to do it now. If you are reluctant to touch the drywall, I would definitely add it to the to do list. It will add up over the years.

mcbert

kceire wrote: »

The planning means nothing but with the reference I can check what they actually lodged to Building Control as construction drawings.

I’ll post up tomorrow.

That is very generous of you! Thanks!

awec

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Id say there is no membrane from what you say. It might be visible if you poke around enough in the loft but it could be hard to spot. BTW I was not prescribing a different course of action if it is present but I that just have not dealt with that.

I am not sure how Sky installers work but if you don't want to touch the drywall I think it is hard to avoid any negative impact. If the installers drills a hole close to the size of the cable there wont be a huge problem. Even if they drill a large hole it wont make your house a cold house and you could seal it even years later although it is easier to do it now. If you are reluctant to touch the drywall, I would definitely add it to the to do list. It will add up over the years.

Sky installer will connect to existing cabling if it's in place and accessible from outside, or they'll drill a hole through the wall. They don't really mess about with anything elaborate, they are only given a very short window of time to complete each install.

The hole they drill is just the right size for the cable. They'll usually put a waterproof cover on the outside for sealing and a wiring grommet inside to seal it.

Gumbo

mcbert wrote: »

That is very generous of you! Thanks!

According to the Pre-Lim BER Report, its a Timber Frame with 300mm filled cavity. So it will deffo contain membranes.

A2 Rated home.

According to the drawings submitted its painted nap render on 100mm blockwork with 160mm cavity pumped with Graphite Bonded Bead with 100mm block inner leaf.


So 2 conflicting build ups. You need to confirm with the builder what actually is happening on site.

Yellow_Fern

awec wrote: »

Unless you have already asked the electrician to run double-coax cables from outside then you'll have no choice but for them to adrill a hole.

Unless it's a passive house you'll have no issues. The hole is tiny, and will be covered on both ends.

OP, do not trust all posters on this forum! A hole in the wall letting is a hole wall whether its a passive or G rated regardless and the negative impact is the same regardless. Just because you dont aim for perfection doesnt mean you should aim for shoddy.

mcbert

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

OP, do not trust all posters on this forum! A hole in the wall letting is a hole wall whether its a passive or G rated regardless and the negative impact is the same regardless. Just because you dont aim for perfection doesnt mean you should aim for shoddy.

Ok, fair enough, but how do I avoid a hole in the wall to pass the cables through? Or how do I seal the hole so it is not 'shoddy' ? I'm not going to take the wall apart to get a perfect seal.

I'm trying now to get a definitive answer on how exactly it has been constructed...

awec

mcbert wrote: »

Ok, fair enough, but how do I avoid a hole in the wall to pass the cables through? Or how do I seal the hole so it is not 'shoddy' ? I'm not going to take the wall apart to get a perfect seal.

I'm trying now to get a definitive answer on how exactly it has been constructed...

You can't. Either they drill a hole in the wall or you don't get Sky. This is the only installation method Sky will entertain.

For what it's worth I got Sky installed in my A2 rated gaff. While I'm sure if you did some thermal testing you'd find the wall around the hole is a colder, I do not notice any difference at all in the room.

BryanF

mcbert wrote: »

I'm trying now to get a definitive answer on how exactly it has been constructed...

Sure we’ll park it there until you know..

fits

I had a dish put up on my house last year. It’s a self build with an airtightness membrane and a lot of insulation. ( didn’t get it rated as has older wing) I asked the installer to run the cable around the outside of the house to where we have a service duct and he could connect it from there and that was fine. However he drilled a really deep hole to hang the dish and that room with the drilled wall is definitely affected as a result.

gabe1977

Also, doesn't the sky engineer drill a quite big hole to anchor his ladder which is filled with silicon after.
I think it's something like a 12mm hole.
Wouldn't fancy that in an A rated house

awec

fits wrote: »

I had a dish put up on my house last year. It’s a self build with an airtightness membrane and a lot of insulation. ( didn’t get it rated as has older wing) I asked the installer to run the cable around the outside of the house to where we have a service duct and he could connect it from there and that was fine. However he drilled a really deep hole to hang the dish and that room with the drilled wall is definitely affected as a result.

Yea this is the only non-invasive method of installation as far as I am aware, but you would need to have a double coax cable run through this service duct. Sky engineers won't do that during an install, generally you'd need to ask your electrician during first fix.

BTW OP I am not an expert here, just giving my experience as I did the same thing within the last year.

If you don't fancy it, I think Sky are (or were) trialing a dish-less setup in the UK, but I don't think it'll be available in Ireland any time soon.

mcbert

Ok, I've asked my solicitor to get to the bottom of the house's construction.

But ignoring that for a moment, the brochure says 'All houses are wired for EIR and Virgin', so either that is a service duct that can also be used for the SKy cables, or a hole will have to be drilled.

But regarding the installation of the dish itself and fastening the ladder, I was already planning to install it at head height at the back of the house where it is single story, so I wonder could I put in a solid 2m ground mount balcony pole into the concrete that is already there, will a sky engineer install dish onto that if I ask, instead of the wall? Also means no drilling the ladder into the wall either.

sydthebeat

does "wired for eir and virgin" not just mean a fibreoptic cable brought internally?

mcbert

sydthebeat wrote: »

does "wired for eir and virgin" not just mean a fibreoptic cable brought internally?

Maybe, but didnt think so. Thought Virgin was coax and there is no Eir FTTH around here yet.

keepalive213

mcbert wrote: »

Ok, I've asked my solicitor to get to the bottom of the house's construction.

But ignoring that for a moment, the brochure says 'All houses are wired for EIR and Virgin', so either that is a service duct that can also be used for the SKy cables, or a hole will have to be drilled.

But regarding the installation of the dish itself and fastening the ladder, I was already planning to install it at head height at the back of the house where it is single story, so I wonder could I put in a solid 2m ground mount balcony pole into the concrete that is already there, will a sky engineer install dish onto that if I ask, instead of the wall? Also means no drilling the ladder into the wall either.

It all depends which sky 'engineer' you get on the day, if its too much hassle they will not have the time as they do not have very good employment conditions.
Id try a local independent installer, better quality work and equipment. Theres almost always a work around.
They could have it ready for the sky guy to just set up the box.

Gumbo

mcbert wrote: »

Ok, I've asked my solicitor to get to the bottom of the house's construction.

But ignoring that for a moment, the brochure says 'All houses are wired for EIR and Virgin', so either that is a service duct that can also be used for the SKy cables, or a hole will have to be drilled.

But regarding the installation of the dish itself and fastening the ladder, I was already planning to install it at head height at the back of the house where it is single story, so I wonder could I put in a solid 2m ground mount balcony pole into the concrete that is already there, will a sky engineer install dish onto that if I ask, instead of the wall? Also means no drilling the ladder into the wall either.

Forget about the solicitor.
Talk to the site foreman.

awec

mcbert wrote: »

Ok, I've asked my solicitor to get to the bottom of the house's construction.

But ignoring that for a moment, the brochure says 'All houses are wired for EIR and Virgin', so either that is a service duct that can also be used for the SKy cables, or a hole will have to be drilled.

But regarding the installation of the dish itself and fastening the ladder, I was already planning to install it at head height at the back of the house where it is single story, so I wonder could I put in a solid 2m ground mount balcony pole into the concrete that is already there, will a sky engineer install dish onto that if I ask, instead of the wall? Also means no drilling the ladder into the wall either.

Virgin use a single coax cable. This is no good for Sky, who need 2 coax cables. Also, if you get Virgin internet they'll use this cable for internet services.

Eir is the wrong cable entirely.

As for using that ducting, I doubt you can get a cable through it at this stage. Do you know where the cable comes out at the other side?

In terms of mounting on a pole, Sky will not recommend this as it will sway in the wind and cause signal issues. They won't need to drill a hole for the ladder if you are mounting on a single story.

My own dish is actually mounted on my boundary wall rather than my house, that may be an option for you if your wall is tall enough and close enough to the house?

sydthebeat wrote: »

does "wired for eir and virgin" not just mean a fibreoptic cable brought internally?

It might, but also the Virgin and Eir cabling will come from outside the house through a small duct. "Wired for Virgin" usually means that Virgin Media engineers have been in the house and installed their kit, and the house is on their systems ready for someone to set up an account.

blast06

So Sky engineer will drill a 12mm hole and back fill it with silicon. Big deal.
Consequence .... you will behave a cold spot on the section of wall but it will not impact your comfort in the house 1 iota and you won't ever notice it. It might add a fiver a year to your annual heating bill and yet you are spending endless hours trying to figure out how to do something better.

You remind me of myself when i was building my A2 rated house 7 years ago ..... the amount of time i wasted trying to figure out optimum solutions for an attic shaft doorway and whether to go with dearer wall-ties to reduce thermal bridging and a 101 other things. I only realised all this was a waste of time and money about a year after i moved in when i calculated my annual heating bill (2750 sq ft) to be €293 (20 degrees 24/7/365 with fresh air feel). I could have spent many thousands more on the optimal solutions during construction to reduce my heating bill by another maybe €50-€100 per year.

I know there are plenty here that will accuse me of heresy but i can only relate my experience.

Toby22

Hi,

I had my house retrofitted with external insulation. I moved tv within the house and in an effort to eliminate internal wires called Sky to move the connecting outside point. They point blank refused to drill into the external wall as it would “break the seal”.

mcbert

Toby22 wrote: »

Hi,

I had my house retrofitted with external insulation. I moved tv within the house and in an effort to eliminate internal wires called Sky to move the connecting outside point. They point blank refused to drill into the external wall as it would “break the seal”.

So what did you do? Cancel, get a different installer, or fit it to a pole or something?

EDIT: Ah I see, you left the dish where it was...

metricspaces

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

OP, do not trust all posters on this forum! A hole in the wall letting is a hole wall whether its a passive or G rated regardless and the negative impact is the same regardless. Just because you dont aim for perfection doesnt mean you should aim for shoddy.

What is the impact of a small hole for a TV cable in an A2 rated house? In terms of heat loss it's going to be negligible I'd imagine if it's sealed up again completely inside and outside.

If it's timber frame there's a risk of moisture getting from inside the house to the timber frame as you've cut through the membrane right? I'd imagine even new builds will not have a completely flawless membrane envelope...in theory maybe but in practice I'd doubt it.

If it is timber frame the membrane is right behind the plasterboard. So if you're really concerned just cut open a square of the plasterboard to get access to the membrane. Reseal the membrane using airtightness tape, put the square of plasterboard you cut out back in and plaster over?

If you wanted to put a conduit through the wall you can get sleeves to fit around them tightly and the sleeve is then taped to the membrane. https://database.passivehouse.com/en/components/details/airtightness_system/pro-clima-moll-bauokologische-produkte-gmbh-pro-clima-kaflex-und-roflex-1168ap03

Toby22

I tried other suppliers and was told the same story so just hid the cable behind the skirting board

Yellow_Fern

metricspaces wrote: »

What is the impact of a small hole for a TV cable in an A2 rated house? In terms of heat loss it's going to be negligible I'd imagine if it's sealed up again completely inside and outside.

If it's timber frame there's a risk of moisture getting from inside the house to the timber frame as you've cut through the membrane right? I'd imagine even new builds will not have a completely flawless membrane envelope...in theory maybe but in practice I'd doubt it.

If it is timber frame the membrane is right behind the plasterboard. So if you're really concerned just cut open a square of the plasterboard to get access to the membrane. Reseal the membrane using airtightness tape, put the square of plasterboard you cut out back in and plaster over?

If you wanted to put a conduit through the wall you can get sleeves to fit around them tightly and the sleeve is then taped to the membrane. https://database.passivehouse.com/en/components/details/airtightness_system/pro-clima-moll-bauokologische-produkte-gmbh-pro-clima-kaflex-und-roflex-1168ap03

If it is not sealed it is not going to be an enormous impact. hence I said its something you could ignore for a few years and come back to fix later. I dont think it has no impact tho. I have looked at such holes behind drywall with thermal cameras. You will have a spot on your wall that stays at 14c or so while the rest of the house is warm and this doesnt take into draughts and the cold, air also cooling surrounding drywall. Those sleeves are are as good as solution as is possible.

metricspaces

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

If it is not sealed it is not going to be an enormous impact. hence I said its something you could ignore for a few years and come back to fix later. I dont think it has no impact tho. I have looked at such holes behind drywall with thermal cameras. You will have a spot on your wall that stays at 14c or so while the rest of the house is warm and this doesnt take into draughts and the cold, air also cooling surrounding drywall. Those sleeves are are as good as solution as is possible.

If the hole is sealed with airtightness foam, or even silicone, inside and outside, there won't be any draughts right? So the only concern is insulation and airtightness membrane?

You can't do much about the insulation as you need the hole to get the wire through? So that leaves the hole in the membrane which is easily addressed as I mentioned above.

Even if you are still left with a cold spot, it is tiny. It's a tiny percentage of the overall surface area of house walls/roof. A new build A2 house will have some cold spots as no house is constructed to perfection. The house may have trickle vents in windows or hole-in-the-wall vents.

So whilst you may still have a tiny cold spot... what is the consequence in the overall scheme of things? If the membrane is sealed we're just talking about heat loss which I'd imagine is negligible.

metricspaces

Some airtight foam here. I guess it would be better than silicone. https://www.prodomo-ireland.com/buy-online-1/#!/Air-Tight-Foam/c/34921443/offset=0&sort=normal

Yellow_Fern

metricspaces wrote: »

If the hole is sealed with airtightness foam, or even silicone, inside and outside, there won't be any draughts right? So the only concern is insulation and airtightness membrane?

You can't do much about the insulation as you need the hole to get the wire through? So that leaves the hole in the membrane which is easily addressed as I mentioned above.

Even if you are still left with a cold spot, it is tiny. It's a tiny percentage of the overall surface area of house walls/roof. A new build A2 house will have some cold spots as no house is constructed to perfection. The house may have trickle vents in windows or hole-in-the-wall vents.

So whilst you may still have a tiny cold spot... what is the consequence in the overall scheme of things? If the membrane is sealed we're just talking about heat loss which I'd imagine is negligible.

I meant if not sealed. I doubt Sky installers would properly seal it.

metricspaces

Another option...if you have existing openings in your roof, for ventilation, could you run the cable through them? So take it in through the attic and down through attic floor? If your airtightness membrane is on the attic floor, then it'll be very easy to reseal the membrane and if you have rockwool insulation in the attic it'll be easy to cover the cable to avoid a cold spot?

awec

metricspaces wrote: »

Another option...if you have existing openings in your roof, for ventilation, could you run the cable through them? So take it in through the attic and down through attic floor? If your airtightness membrane is on the attic floor, then it'll be very easy to reseal the membrane and if you have rockwool insulation in the attic it'll be easy to cover the cable to avoid a cold spot?

He'd have to somehow get the cable from the attic to wherever his Sky box is. Be pretty awkward I'd think.