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Wrong name on fine

  • 21-01-2020 12:37am
    #1
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭


    Hi

    Received a fine from the Guards. The name on the form is incorrect. Just wondering if this makes the fine void or do I still have to pay it?


Comments

  • #2
    Still waters
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    In what way was it different, is it much different from the name on your licence


  • #3
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Still waters wrote: »
    In what way was it different, is it much different from the name on your licence

    They reversed my surname and name. Basically they think I'm a man, because my surname is one of those ones that could be a first name too.


  • #4
    Qrt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭Qrt


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    They reversed my surname and name. Basically they think I'm a man, because my surname is one of those ones that could be a first name too.

    So your name is Taylor Jack?


  • #5
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Qrt wrote: »
    So your name is Taylor Jack?

    Something like that. Do you have advice, or just being smart?


  • #6
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    They reversed my surname and name. Basically they think I'm a man, because my surname is one of those ones that could be a first name too.

    Pay it. Probably easy enough for the guard to apply to the judge to change it anyway.


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  • #7
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    smelly sock wrote: »
    Pay it. Probably easy enough for the guard to apply to the judge to change it anyway.

    Yes, maybe. But as it stands it's erroneous. Not my name, and so I am wondering if it's valid as stands, not as it may be after he changes it.

    if they change it. Cool, I'll pay.


  • #8
    MMXX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 193 ✭✭MMXX


    Did you commit an offense? If you did, don't you think you should pay the fine?


  • #9
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Should clarify: it's not a speeding fine. Drunk and disorderly charge


  • #10
    Still waters
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    They reversed my surname and name. Basically they think I'm a man, because my surname is one of those ones that could be a first name too.

    Is the name correct if it was the other way around, as in opposite of what it says on the fine


  • #11
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    Yes, maybe. But as it stands it's erroneous. Not my name, and so I am wondering if it's valid as stands, not as it may be after he changes it.

    if they change it. Cool, I'll pay.

    Solicitor?


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  • #12
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    smelly sock wrote: »
    Solicitor?

    I'm going to speak to legal aid in the next day or so. Might get a solicitor if they think I have a case. May not be worth the stress though.


  • #13
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Still waters wrote: »
    Is the name correct if it was the other way around, as in opposite of what it says on the fine

    Yes


  • #14
    Still waters
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    I'd pay the fine if that's the case, all the guard has to do is testify that you're the person involved, I'd be very surprised if something like this was taken seriously by a judge


  • #15
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Still waters wrote: »
    I'd pay the fine if that's the case, all the guard has to do is testify that you're the person involved, I'd be very surprised if something like this was taken seriously by a judge

    Thanks. I'll probably do that. Will seek legal aid just to be sure.


  • #16
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,407 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Probably falls into ‘was the guard wearing his hat’ territory...


  • #17
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,825 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Look up the phonebook for someone who has that exact name and send it to them by registered post.


  • #18
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Look up the phonebook for someone who has that exact name and send it to them by registered post.

    I never thought I'd say this, but thanks, Donald Trump. Great advice :pac:


  • #19
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,989 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    Should clarify: it's not a speeding fine. Drunk and disorderly charge
    There was an actual court hearing here, and a conviction?


  • #20
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    There was an actual court hearing here, and a conviction?

    No, no court case. Straight up fine. No name of any guard on the notice, just two separate fines delivered in the post for the same night.


  • #21
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,989 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Even if your name was correctly shown, you'd be under no obligation to pay the fine. But this might not be a good idea.

    Basically, if you pay the fine, they don't charge you, there's no trial, and there's no conviction. But if you don't pay, you'll be charged and tried and (possibly) convicted, in which case you can expect a larger fine (plus a criminal record). So the usual reason for refusing to pay the fine is a wish to contest the charge and (hopefully) secure an acquittal.

    So, in this case, if you don't pay, you'll be charged. At that point they may notice the error and issue the charge in your proper name. Or, they may not, but when you object to the proceedings on the grounds that you are not the named defendant, the judge will simply order your name to be rectified in the proceedings.

    So, no, I don't see that there is much milage for you in this. The error in setting out your name may be embarrassing to the guards, but it won't be fatal to a successful prosecution.

    Unless you think that you have substantive grounds for contesting the charge, and want to contest it on those grounds, you're probably better to cut your losses and pay the fine.


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  • #22
    JackTaylorFan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭JackTaylorFan


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Even if your name was correctly shown, you'd be under no obligation to pay the fine. But this might not be a good idea.

    Basically, if you pay the fine, they don't charge you, there's no trial, and there's no conviction. But if you don't pay, you'll be charged and tried and (possibly) convicted, in which case you can expect a larger fine (plus a criminal record). So the usual reason for refusing to pay the fine is a wish to contest the charge and (hopefully) secure an acquittal.

    So, in this case, if you don't pay, you'll be charged. At that point they may notice the error and issue the charge in your proper name. Or, they may not, but when you object to the proceedings on the grounds that you are not the named defendant, the judge will simply order your name to be rectified in the proceedings.

    So, no, I don't see that there is much milage for you in this. The error in setting out your name may be embarrassing to the guards, but it won't be fatal to a successful prosecution.

    Unless you think that you have substantive grounds for contesting the charge, and want to contest it on those grounds, you're probably better to cut your losses and pay the fine.


    Much appreciated. Thanks.


  • #23
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,983 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    JackTaylorFan wrote: »
    Much appreciated. Thanks.

    Yes that was good advice, if you do not pay it will go to court.

    Also read this:
    Mistakes or errors on the summons
    The court will rarely dismiss a case because of an error or omission in a summons. Differences between the facts on the summons and the facts presented to the court by the prosecuting Garda about the time and place of the incident, do not normally prevent the case from being prosecuted. In fact, the District Court has discretion to amend a defective summons under Rule 38 of the Distric Court Rules.

    However, a fundamental mistake on the summons, such as not including the location of the District Court, or the identity of the District Court Clerk to whom the complaint was made, means proceedings will not go ahead.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_trial/summons.html


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