2020 Kia Niro PHEV - opinions?

Pique

I'm seriously considering going for one of these and would like to hear opinions of owners/experts.

It'll be a move from a 2L diesel. Predominantly town driving with some occasional long journeys, so it seems like it's a perfect match. It's well specced with leather, active cruise, lane departure etc and will be a big step up in driver comfort from the last vehicle so that's all good. What is the real-world range of the pure-EV on it. Anything close to the 58km claimed around town? Any major flaws or drawbacks that I mightn't be aware of with the Niro in particular over other competitors?

The test drive was with a flat battery unfortunately (yeah, I know!} although a bit of regen did allow some EV exposure, but not much. I'll ask for a drive with a fully charged battery to get a better feel for it.

How is the at-home charging though? I understand Kia do not recommend using the 3-pin adapter much. Is there a recommended charging unit over others that I should know about? EI offer a 7kW charger for only €150 + grant but I expect/intend to go fully electric in a few years so am I foolish not to go for a more powerful charger now rather than upgrade in 3 years or so, and if yes, what ones should I be looking at in particular?

Cheers guys.

Black_Knight

Pique wrote: »

I'm seriously considering going for one of these and would like to hear opinions of owners/experts.

It'll be a move from a 2L diesel. Predominantly town driving with some occasional long journeys, so it seems like it's a perfect match. It's well specced with leather, active cruise, lane departure etc and will be a big step up in driver comfort from the last vehicle so that's all good. What is the real-world range of the pure-EV on it. Anything close to the 58km claimed around town? Any major flaws or drawbacks that I mightn't be aware of with the Niro in particular over other competitors?

The test drive was with a flat battery unfortunately (yeah, I know!} although a bit of regen did allow some EV exposure, but not much. I'll ask for a drive with a fully charged battery to get a better feel for it.

How is the at-home charging though? I understand Kia do not recommend using the 3-pin adapter much. Is there a recommended charging unit over others that I should know about? EI offer a 7kW charger for only €150 + grant but I expect/intend to go fully electric in a few years so am I foolish not to go for a more powerful charger now rather than upgrade in 3 years or so, and if yes, what ones should I be looking at in particular?

Cheers guys.

7kW is the max you'll be able to run from your home, unless you're wired up for 3 phase (unlikely). You could use a 3pin, but 1. It's slow. 2. You'd need a waterproof external socket, 3. The wiring for that socket would want to be good (it'd be drawing 2kW for the duration of the charge), 4. There's a grant for the charger so why not.

IMO, get only what you currently need. Tech will charge and get cheaper in a few years time. If you have an electric shower, you'd need to get a priority switch, or a charger which can load balance (more expensive). There's a charger thread you should check out.

If you're mostly town driving, with some longer range, what range are you talking? Have you considered fully electric. ENiro would have about 400km range. Could be worth doing the math. What's the cost difference between phev and EV? What annual milage you do?

FYI, I don't own a niro, so I can't give user/owner opinions on it.

KCross

Pique wrote: »

What is the real-world range of the pure-EV on it. Anything close to the 58km claimed around town?

40-50km is the range.

Is your daily driving under that?
What is your total yearly mileage?

Pique wrote: »

Any major flaws or drawbacks that I mightn't be aware of with the Niro in particular over other competitors?

It runs the engine to heat the cabin. So you could have a full battery and only doing a short run, it will still fire up the engine to give you heat. Not the end of the world I guess.

Pique wrote: »

How is the at-home charging though? I understand Kia do not recommend using the 3-pin adapter much. Is there a recommended charging unit over others that I should know about? EI offer a 7kW charger for only €150 + grant but I expect/intend to go fully electric in a few years so am I foolish not to go for a more powerful charger now rather than upgrade in 3 years or so, and if yes, what ones should I be looking at in particular?

The PHEV only pulls 16A but install a 32A type-2 tethered charge point to future proof for BEV down the road.

Any of the charge points really will do, unless you have an electric shower which complicates the answer a little bit.

Pique

Full EV isn't an option atm really so PHEV is where I'm at.

What is the story with public charging stations? Is there a single point of contact (account-wise) that covers all chargers in Ireland, or are we like the UK with multiple different companies running disparate disconnected incompatible systems?

I do have an electric shower, but I presume the EI installer will be able to cope. Do you mean that charging the car and having a shower at the same time is not possible on a home electric setup? If the car is charging does that prevent the shower from pulling the necessary current or is there a choice to charge, automatically switch to shower when required, then automatically return to charge after shower? Not that it really should be an issue I suppose with a 2-3h charge time on a 7kW Type 2 charger.

Mileage is low in general (12k km pa) but with occasional 200+km journeys (~6-7 times a year). Majority of journeys are <10km and next most common would be ~40-50km.

KCross

Pique wrote: »

What is the story with public charging stations? Is there a single point of contact (account-wise) that covers all chargers in Ireland, or are we like the UK with multiple different companies running disparate disconnected incompatible systems?

Nearly all PHEVs only charge on AC so the rapid DC chargers won’t be relevant to you. The AC charge points around the country are predominantly operated by eCars so that’s all you’d need.

I do have an electric shower, but I presume the EI installer will be able to cope. Do you mean that charging the car and having a shower at the same time is not possible?

If you install a 32A charge point you need to ensure it and the shower don’t exceed your house fuse limit. There are options but they cost extra money.

Mileage is low in general (9k pa) but with occasional 200+km journeys (~6-7 times a year). Majority of journeys are <10km and next most common would be ~40-50km.

Your mileage is low so your savings will be low but your daily driving is suited to PHEV.

Is your motivation money or environment or a combination of things?

Pique

KCross wrote: »

Is your motivation money or environment or a combination of things?

I suppose it's a combination. Diesel is a bad choice given circumstances. Mileage has changed a fair bit since that was bought.

Environment is a pretty big factor and now is the first opportunity to contribute to a cleaner vehicle choice. EV would be ideal but again not a runner right now cos of reasons (including cost).

The savings aren't just in fuel but in the combination of factors. Maintenance of diesel with town driving is problematic (and tbh someone is gonna get a great second hand car that they actually need), EV for town and auto box is simply easier, trade in value of current car is only going down and this is an opportune time, the adaption to a greener life (including that of the whole EV world and the learning curve of that) and the fact that it's affordable to do all those things while driving a vehicle that is so much more technologically advanced in features, comfort and active safety kinda make it an obvious move.

judgefoozle

Niro phev owner here - picked up last week so still getting to grips with best way to drive it.

Would have also considered the full ev version but range not suitable for work - I might drive 300-400km on both Friday and Saturday and would not have been able to fully charge in between days. So until a 1000km range ev comes out or work changes, this suited best.

You can switch between auto / hybrid / full ev. Fully ev still draws on petrol engine to heat but not loads.

During the week days I normally drive between 20-40km per day so will be using ev much as possible.

On a 110km trip yesterday I got 120+mpg using a mix of battery and hybrid. And that's carrying 3 passengers with all heated seats on and nice toasty aircon.

We already have an EV in the house so can't get another outdoor charger grant - but have been using outdoor plug and granny cable which works fine for me - and is totally ok to use according to Kia. Also using slow chargers whenever they're available - local shopping centre has them.

As for driving, I love it and all the comforts having come from a basic enough spec 10 year old car.

Have another out of the norm week day trip today - 200km ish there and back with a mix of motorway and national roads. Looking forward to seeing how it does on motorways.

Overall very happy with it and could justify the expense of a brand new one. Plan on keeping for 5 year's minimum.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask anything else

Alun

Picking mine up today hopefully. Don't have a charger yet, but I can live with the granny cable for now. Really looking forward to it.

What colour is everyone going for? Mine is metallic red.

Pique

Alun wrote: »

Picking mine up today hopefully. Don't have a charger yet, but I can live with the granny cable for now. Really looking forward to it.

What colour is everyone going for? Mine is metallic red.

Horizon Blue for me I reckon.

Alun

Pique wrote: »

Horizon Blue for me I reckon.

Have you seen it "in the flesh", as it were? The one I test drove was that colour, and to me it looks a bit, well, nondescript. The other metallic blue, Gravity Blue, is so dark it's almost black, and judging by the one I saw, shows up the dirt really badly.

My current car is white, and I was going to go with that too for the Niro, but I don't think it would go well with the light grey leather, so went for a darker, more contrasting colour.

Pique

Alun wrote: »

Have you seen it "in the flesh", as it were? The one I test drove was that colour, and to me it looks a bit, well, nondescript.

Actually no I haven't. I saw the Grey and the Red. Grey looks nice but to borrow your phrase, a bit nondescript. Just another grey car.

There was a dark blue Sorrento there and it reminded me of the kind of colour you saw on Corollas in the 80s & 90s. Ugh.

I was hoping the Horizon Blue would be a bit 'fresher'. It looks nice in the brochure haha.

Pique

judgefoozle wrote: »

On a 110km trip yesterday I got 120+mpg using a mix of battery and hybrid. And that's carrying 3 passengers with all heated seats on and nice toasty aircon.

Nice. Nothing to be sniffed at. What's the overtaking power like at 100kph? Coming from a torquey diesel I'm expecting a fair drop in oomph (which I'll adapt to, you can't have everything!)

judgefoozle wrote: »

We already have an EV in the house so can't get another outdoor charger grant - but have been using outdoor plug and granny cable which works fine for me - and is totally ok to use according to Kia.

According to Kia " It is only recommended in urgent cases, with caution and consultation with electricity providers."

judgefoozle wrote: »

As for driving, I love it and all the comforts having come from a basic enough spec 10 year old car.

What did you come from?

zg3409

In terms of public charging there is not much point public charging if 99% of your trips can be done on home charging, and long trips adding 50/60km here and there won't make much if a saving. If you have work charging or are staying overnight where there happens to be a free charger then it may be worth the hassle. All the esb public chargers will be okay to use by end if 2020, so not worth paying and waiting for that.

In terms if chargers, if you have an instant shower and you can install a home charger apply for 600 euro grant as it may not be available forever and install the maximum 7.2 kW home charger. As you have an instant shower only certain types of charger will work. If car is charging full and instant shower like triton t90 us on the house will overload and esb main fuse inside Meyer box will blow. You need a charger with a sensor. Typically people go for a Zappi, but it's about 1200 installed less 600 grant. You can also get an Garo brand with optional "Modbus energy meter" . Any good installer should be able to do this. So budget for roughly 600 on top of grant.

You can use a 3 pin socket, but you would need an outdoor socket, and then are you going to leave the charging cable at home all the time or unplug it and bring it with you? Fine for first few weeks, but a proper charger with dedicated cable located next to parking spot us better. In terms if fuel savings your trios are so short there may be no savings. In fact a hybrid may cist you more than similar non hybrid petrol only in terms if initial cost, first year depreciation etc. Buying a brand new car is not that eco and not that cost saving, particularly for very short commutes.

Alun

Pique wrote: »

I was hoping the Horizon Blue would be a bit 'fresher'. It looks nice in the brochure haha.

In my opinion it looks a lot "bluer" in the brochure than in real life.

judgefoozle

Pique wrote: »

Nice. Nothing to be sniffed at. What's the overtaking power like at 100kph? Coming from a torquey diesel I'm expecting a fair drop in oomph (which I'll adapt to, you can't have everything!)

You can boost the power if you need it for overtaking - doesn't feel lacking at all. Had it at motorway speeds for 100km distance today and was great. Adaptive cruise control, auto lights...

Pique wrote: »

According to Kia " It is only recommended in urgent cases, with caution and consultation with electricity providers."

What did you come from?

Ask Kia Ireland directly about this if you're worried - there's no issue using granny cable as long as you've a properly wired socket.

I came from a Prius which the last while was averaging 45-50mpg so this is a big improvement

judgefoozle

Still figuring out which way to drive for best mpg - the 2x 100km trips today were both motorways at 120km per hour

judgefoozle

Alun wrote: »

In my opinion it looks a lot "bluer" in the brochure than in real life.

I went with Gravity Blue - its very dark and has a nice metallic navy shine to it.

judgefoozle

Pic of gravity blue

judgefoozle

zg3409 wrote: »

You can use a 3 pin socket, but you would need an outdoor socket, and then are you going to leave the charging cable at home all the time or unplug it and bring it with you? Fine for first few weeks, but a proper charger with dedicated cable located next to parking spot us better. .

The granny cable is waterproof/ip55 and im using it with an outdoor socket with a lockable cover. This is my permanent charging setup for the Niro.

This setup might work fine for others too - but if you can get the grant then go for it. We can't as already have zappi and its one grant per household

Pique

judgefoozle wrote: »

The granny cable is waterproof/ip55 and im using it with an outdoor socket with a lockable cover. This is my permanent charging setup for the Niro.

This setup might work fine for others too - but if you can get the grant then go for it. We can't as already have zappi and its one grant per household

I'll use the grant alright and in the meantime I've a socket in the garage (junk storage) beside the door that I can use.

judgefoozle

Takes a bit of figuring out how to get best mpg but got 2.9l / 97.5mpg driving 100km of motorway today.

Alun

judgefoozle wrote: »

Takes a bit of figuring out how to get best mpg but got 2.9l / 97.5mpg driving 100km of motorway today.

Just did a round trip from Bray out to the Wicklow Gap (lots of hills, and one use of Sport mode to get past a couple of dawdlers) then back to Annamoe, to the M11 via Devil's Glen and Ashford (nice steep downhill to recharge) then a trip to Vartry Garage south of Wicklow to pick up a rubber boot mat, and then back home via M11/N11 using SCC and LFAS which worked much better than expected. I only had about 30% charge when I left and it went down to about 8% at one point but is now at 13%. Just over 111km at 3.9l/100km, not as good as yours, but there were plenty of steep uphill sections where the engine kicked in. The fuel gauge still hasn't budged from the full mark from when I picked it up on Monday though.

The only thing that really bugs me is the active LKAS, which might be OK on good roads with clear line markings but is a PITA on windy back R roads with badly faded markings. I've switched off the active correction part of it and just kept the audible warning.

I'm also not sure why Auto Hold isn't on by default, it's extremely useful, and even beeps to remind you that the car in front has started moving off if you haven't reacted quickly enough

KCross

Alun wrote: »

The only thing that really bugs me is the active LKAS, which might be OK on good roads with clear line markings but is a PITA on windy back R roads with badly faded markings. I've switched off the active correction part of it and just kept the audible warning.

Kia LKAS is crap. It’s just about usable on motorway. It needs LFA really.

Alun

KCross wrote: »

Kia LKAS is crap. It’s just about usable on motorway. It needs LFA really.

It does have it, and it works quite well.

Pique

Well I took the plunge. Order in for Horizon Blue and due in a couple of weeks.

KCross

Alun wrote: »

It does have it, and it works quite well.

The PHEV has it now?

That’s good, they didn’t have it in the PHEV originally. When did they introduce it?

Alun

KCross wrote: »

The PHEV has it now?

That’s good, they didn’t have it in the PHEV originally. When did they introduce it?

Not sure if the pre 2020 facelift model had it or not, to be honest.

Alun

Grrrr, just discovered that if I go all the way through the settings menu to the Lane Departure section and change it to just warn me (LDW) instead of jerking the steering wheel (LKA) that it reverts back to the default, i.e. LKA, the next time I start the car

zg3409

Alun wrote: »

Grrrr, just discovered that if I go all the way through the settings menu to the Lane Departure section and change it to just warn me (LDW) instead of jerking the steering wheel (LKA) that it reverts back to the default, i.e. LKA, the next time I start the car

is there no dash button to disable lka like:

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hyundai.news%2Ffileadmin%2Feu%2Ftechnology%2F20180717_how_to_use_hyundais_smartsense_safety_tech%2Flane-keeping-assist.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hyundai.news%2Feu%2Fstories%2Fhow-to-use-hyundais-smartsense-safety-tech%2F&docid=G_T25bhW-wyvSM&tbnid=mJmBeYlt5fB0fM%3A&vet=1&w=1600&h=1000&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim

I am 99% sure the Ioniq has this, not sure about niro

Alun

zg3409 wrote: »

is there no dash button to disable lka like:

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hyundai.news%2Ffileadmin%2Feu%2Ftechnology%2F20180717_how_to_use_hyundais_smartsense_safety_tech%2Flane-keeping-assist.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hyundai.news%2Feu%2Fstories%2Fhow-to-use-hyundais-smartsense-safety-tech%2F&docid=G_T25bhW-wyvSM&tbnid=mJmBeYlt5fB0fM%3A&vet=1&w=1600&h=1000&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim

I am 99% sure the Ioniq has this, not sure about niro

Yes, there is, but you have to do it every single time you start the car, and it disables it completely.

There's a menu option in the setup to switch the LKA response between active, LDW which is just a beep, and Off. Now considering how awkward it is to get to this menu, it's not something you'd want to do every time you get in the car, and definitely not something you'd want to do while driving along, so you'd assume this would be a one off and it would retain the settings but no.

There's a few complaints on various Kia Niro forums about the same thing, so it's not just me.

Pique

I suppose safety features are on by default. There's probably legal liability potential if the possibility to disable it was there.