Work issue - advice welcome

Terrontress

I currently work for a large corporate organisation, with rules for everything.

I was in a team in which I was performing, getting good performance reviews and the good bonus and payrise which comes as a result of that.

I had been told that I was on track for promotion by my manager, but there was a change in her remit, someone else came in at the same level as me and was promoted in short time.

As a result, I moved to a different team, in an area in which I have little experience.

My new manager, who is considerably younger than me, had been promoted immediately prior to my arrival and has never managed anyone before. We are a team of two, him and me.

Over the past 9 months, I have complained to him that I have not had enough work to do, that I have not been included in the key decisions going on, that he hasn't taken my skills into account when deciding how things get done.

Our office doesn't have allocated seating and there have been full weeks where he has gone and sat elsewhere as he is too busy. There have been mornings when I have asked to speak to him, he has refused as he has too much on, or he is doing his task list for the day. He would give me a single piece of work to do within a day, whereas I am used to working on a body of work over time.

I feel like I have made some headway in terms of taking on interesting tasks, however performance review period has come and I have been rated as not delivering.

This means I won't get a bonus, roughly €7k post tax. As a single parent one of the impacts will be the difference between a decent summer holiday or none. In three previous years, I have never been denied a bonus.

I have told him that I am not willing to accept that rating, he is confident in it. The next step is to go to his boss and detail why I think I should have been rated differently. She will also have been involved in the rating process. Then after that, I have to raise a formal grievance with HR.

I have a decentish salary, although lots of expenses, good benefits and flexibility. I intend to stay in this company, and think I could enjoy and make a go of this role.

My big problem is probably not raising the issues beyond him during the year, but I guess my confidence has taken a bit of a knock as well.

What are people's opinions on this?

I am going to be going to his boss and my key argument is that I have been mismanaged, which I think I can argue, but she might not change the decision and I have just badmouthed my line manager. She will undoubtedly pass on what I have said and he and I need to continue with our working relationship. I can ask what training he has been given in regards to management, and perhaps suggest he is not personally responsible, but has also been let down.

Then I have the option of launching grievance procedures with HR. I am worried about being seen as a troublemaker, but I feel that I haven't been given the opportunity to deliver or thrive.

I have seen people disappear from this organisation before, and I need to keep paying the bills.

skallywag

I am assuming that the two of you met to discuss the poor rating.

What justification was used for the rating? Could he point to solid examples to back up his opinion?

Terrontress

skallywag wrote: »

I am assuming that the two of you met to discuss the poor rating.

What justification was used for the rating? Could he point to solid examples to back up his opinion?

No, not really. Just a general feeling of dissatisfaction. But I’m dissatisfied as well. Lack of confidence.

As I’ve been given very little to run with, there’s nothing to point to in order to evidence failing to meet requirements.

FFVII

Terrontress wrote: »

Then I have the option of launching grievance procedures with HR. I am worried about being seen as a troublemaker, but I feel that I haven't been given the opportunity to deliver or thrive.

I have seen people disappear from this organisation before, and I need to keep paying the bills.

What do they do to people they don't like?

Manage them out the door in a few months?

If you do launch a grievance don't make it office gossip.

skallywag

If I am giving a poor rating then I will always back it up with solid examples. It is very important to do so, as otherwise the team member will have no realistic chance of improving.

If I was you I would ask my manager once again for concrete evidence for the rating, and then speak to his own boss if you are still not satisfied. You would be completely justified in doing so.

FFVII

skallywag wrote: »

If I was you I would ask my manager once again for concrete evidence for the rating, and then speak to his own boss if you are still not satisfied. You would be completely justified in doing so.

Do this^

Terrontress

FFVII wrote: »

What do they do to people they don't like?

Manage them out the door in a few months?

If you do launch a grievance don't make it office gossip.

Manage them out the door in five days. I’ve seen it three times. A happy smiley announcement on a Monday morning that they are taking redundancy. A colleague with a face like thunder, and off they go on the Friday.

FFVII

Terrontress wrote: »

Manage them out the door in five days. I’ve seen it three times. A happy smiley announcement on a Monday morning that they are taking redundancy. A colleague with a face like thunder, and off they go on the Friday.

Ooh, thats different...seems flimsy though, how would that stand up at the WRC?

My place treats people they don't like so badly, they leave. Sometimes this ends up in WRC.

You're in a tough spot so there. Do as suggested above but potentially alot of headache going further.

facehugger99

Terrontress wrote: »

No, not really. Just a general feeling of dissatisfaction. But I’m dissatisfied as well. Lack of confidence.

As I’ve been given very little to run with, there’s nothing to point to in order to evidence failing to meet requirements.

Unless the company have set you clearly defined performance goals that can be accurately assessed as part of your rating, they are on extremely dodgy-grounds giving you a poor rating.

I would write down your reasons as to why you think the rating was unfair.

Maybe attempt to discuss it with your manager again.

It's better to have it all written down.

Terrontress

FFVII wrote: »

Ooh, thats different...seems flimsy though, how would that stand up at the WRC?

My place treats people they don't like so badly, they leave. Sometimes this ends up in WRC.

You're in a tough spot so there. Do as suggested above but potentially alot of headache going further.

That’s what I’m worried about. I can make enemies to get my bonus, but is it worth it long term?

As regards people going, I guess there is some element of consent. As I understand it, the typical payoff is 10% of current wage and they pay out your three month notice period.

Batgurl

Terrontress wrote: »

That’s what I’m worried about. I can make enemies to get my bonus, but is it worth it long term?

They probably have more at stake than you do. Their reputation is worth a lot more to them than you.

On top of that, people move on. Your manager/his manager/HR rep may not be there in 6/12 months time so who cares what they think of you?

Mrs OBumble

skallywag wrote: »

If I was you I would ask my manager once again for concrete evidence for the rating, and then speak to his own boss if you are still not satisfied. You would be completely justified in doing so.

Do this.

Plus look for a job in another team yourself. Build your relationship with that manager. You should have started doing this when the problems became apparent, but it's almost never too late to start.

Terrontress

I’ve got my 121 with the Director next Wednesday. I’m going to formulate some thoughts over the weekend and will post them here for some feedback, if that is ok.

Should this be in Work problems instead? I didn’t realise such a board existed until after I posted it.

screamer

Very unfair to give you that rating out of the blue, being honest, do you have emails of asking him for more work, of asking for meetings etc?
I’m going to be brutally honest here, a lot of the first part of your email sounds like sour grapes. Don’t bring up the he’s younger than you, he doesn’t sit near you, stick to the facts. Refer to yourpast performance, the lack of work given to you, lack of regular meetings and feedback ( therefore a lack of opportunity for you to do something differently to improve) and an out of the blue under performance rating.
Your boss will already have his boss on side so if you have emails to back up what happened then just pull them into a folder on your computer and tell his boss that you’re very happy to share those communications where you sought additional work/ meetings etc if he/ she would like to see them. What I mean is, don’t go in guns blazing with emails printed out, but let them know you have them.

myshirt

I was with you until you said you did not have enough work to do. That was the killer blow.

I can tell you straight out you don't deserve a promotion. To get a promotion you have to stop sitting on your hands and be proactive in resolving issues for the company and increasing the organisations capability. You have a production line mentality, one that traces back to the master and servant era. You only see this in the public service today, or in junior staff with limited capability for progression. I work in Corporate Finance and buy and sell companies all the time, scrub them down, remove the deadwood, and reorganise them for operational efficiency. You would be the exact type of person of target to remove immediately, especially if you are getting a 7k bonus. It is way too high for a lower ranking employee level like that. Whomever is signing off on that incentive compensation would be out on their ear too in any well run organisation.

To give you some advice as other posters have said, cut the sour grapes and really have a think on how you can develop yourself. Don't worry about other people and how it's all unfair. Life is unfair and it will be swings and roundabouts, but persevere. However right now, I'd tighten the lips as it really looks like you are nicking a living.

Blingy

At no stage should someone get a poor performance review without some prior notice that it was coming. If your boss was dissatisfied with your work then you should have been notified of it throughout the year. also since you moved to a new team/new position then you should have time for a learning curve. You would not be expected to be up to speed immediately.
You need evidence to back up your side of the story. Personally I would not take this lying down. Never mind the bonus part of it this goes on your record. Have you ever got this poor performance notice previously?

FFVII

myshirt wrote: »

I was with you until you said you did not have enough work to do. That was the killer blow.

I can tell you straight out you don't deserve a promotion. To get a promotion you have to stop sitting on your hands and be proactive in resolving issues for the company and increasing the organisations capability. You have a production line mentality, one that traces back to the master and servant era. You only see this in the public service today, or in junior staff with limited capability for progression. I work in Corporate Finance and buy and sell companies all the time, scrub them down, remove the deadwood, and reorganise them for operational efficiency. You would be the exact type of person of target to remove immediately, especially if you are getting a 7k bonus. It is way too high for a lower ranking employee level like that. Whomever is signing off on that incentive compensation would be out on their ear too in any well run organisation.

To give you some advice as other posters have said, cut the sour grapes and really have a think on how you can develop yourself. Don't worry about other people and how it's all unfair. Life is unfair and it will be swings and roundabouts, but persevere. However right now, I'd tighten the lips as it really looks like you are nicking a living.

Reading the OP, only option she had left was going over this guy's head for more work to do.

Then she's in to trouble maker territory again and the redundancy sh1t show they have going on.


You know, you're a bit blinkered, you went straight for the bonus in your search for operational efficiency. My crowd get in auditors looking for effeciencies and that's the sort of crap they come up with aswell. The glaringly obvious messed up everyday operational stuff that would save huge time and money stays the same, year in year out.

I could tell you alot of what you do wrong but this ain't the place.

HildaOgdenx

Blingy wrote: »

At no stage should someone get a poor performance review without some prior notice that it was coming. If your boss was dissatisfied with your work then you should have been notified of it throughout the year. also since you moved to a new team/new position then you should have time for a learning curve. You would not be expected to be up to speed immediately.
You need evidence to back up your side of the story. Personally I would not take this lying down. Never mind the bonus part of it this goes on your record. Have you ever got this poor performance notice previously?

100% this. A poor rating should not come at anyone, at review time. Your manager has a duty to convey to you during the year, that he is not satisfied with your work, and provide some guidance/ goals in terms of improvement.

I would definitely challenge it. Otherwise, IMO, things will continue as they are, and you will be looking at a similar scenario next time around and in future, supposing that they don't manage you out, in the long term.

forgottenhills

myshirt wrote: »

I was with you until you said you did not have enough work to do. That was the killer blow.

I can tell you straight out you don't deserve a promotion. To get a promotion you have to stop sitting on your hands and be proactive in resolving issues for the company and increasing the organisations capability. You have a production line mentality, one that traces back to the master and servant era. You only see this in the public service today, or in junior staff with limited capability for progression. I work in Corporate Finance and buy and sell companies all the time, scrub them down, remove the deadwood, and reorganise them for operational efficiency. You would be the exact type of person of target to remove immediately, especially if you are getting a 7k bonus. It is way too high for a lower ranking employee level like that. Whomever is signing off on that incentive compensation would be out on their ear too in any well run organisation.

To give you some advice as other posters have said, cut the sour grapes and really have a think on how you can develop yourself. Don't worry about other people and how it's all unfair. Life is unfair and it will be swings and roundabouts, but persevere. However right now, I'd tighten the lips as it really looks like you are nicking a living.

I'm going to generalise here and say that your work sounds like all the worthless reorg work that all those pompous consulting firms carry out for large clients. I have seen it carried out several times and every time it was pretty much valueless, despite the enormous self-belief of the consultants and firms involved.

Often what happens is that consulting companies come in, identify some of the higher earners in the client and force them out, often replacing with consultant staff. Perhaps cheaper in the short term (ignoring redundancy costs) but client performance typically suffers in the medium term. After a few years some of the original staff often have to be hired back as contractors. After a few more years another reorg takes place and the cycle starts again.

In the case that the OP outlined, you and your firm would be actually of more value if instead of getting rid of the OP, you managed to get rid of, or demote, her line manager who seems to have been promoted to a level above their ability to manage staff. If you could do that and get rid of other poor management practices then your company might be worth your fees.

Terrontress

Hi folks, I met my director, expressed my concerns with how I am being managed, and how the past year had proceeded.

She agreed to increase my performance rating from 'met most' to 'met all'. 3 out of 5 instead of 2.

This has a positive outcome in terms of bonus and my pay rise for the next twelve months. Also, the rating isn't on my record, so won't have a negative impact on looking for a new role internally.

I think the director, in an attempt not to undermine my manager, is phrasing it that she feels procedures weren't followed and, as a result, is happy to increase the rating due to that, which means she does not undermine my boss's decision either. I said that I am not happy with this, as I do not feel I deserved the rating, but that as there is no financial or reputational impact, I will not continue to push it.

My intention is to keep my head down, do what I am told and apply for something else prior to the next review.

forgottenhills

Terrontress wrote: »

Hi folks, I met my director, expressed my concerns with how I am being managed, and how the past year had proceeded.

She agreed to increase my performance rating from 'met most' to 'met all'. 3 out of 5 instead of 2.

This has a positive outcome in terms of bonus and my pay rise for the next twelve months. Also, the rating isn't on my record, so won't have a negative impact on looking for a new role internally.

I think the director, in an attempt not to undermine my manager, is phrasing it that she feels procedures weren't followed and, as a result, is happy to increase the rating due to that, which means she does not undermine my boss's decision either. I said that I am not happy with this, as I do not feel I deserved the rating, but that as there is no financial or reputational impact, I will not continue to push it.

My intention is to keep my head down, do what I am told and apply for something else prior to the next review.

Hi OP. You achieved a positive result there.

Your post suggested that you will be looking to move away from the company. That's fair enough but keep in mind that you were happy with the company and benefits and the grass may not be greener elsewhere. If you are underworked at present why not look around in your present company for some other work to do, make yourself known as willing and available to other team managers so that you might get an opportunity to move into a different team and away from you current manager? As the saying goes people often leave managers, not companies...

Jim Root

what relevance is it that the manager is younger than you?

Blingy

Probably the best outcome you could ask for. Any grievances about not being given enough work etc in the future put into an email to your boss so you have an email trail. But looks like you have a good plan in place anyway.

Terrontress

forgottenhills wrote: »

Hi OP. You achieved a positive result there.

Your post suggested that you will be looking to move away from the company. That's fair enough but keep in mind that you were happy with the company and benefits and the grass may not be greener elsewhere. If you are underworked at present why not look around in your present company for some other work to do, make yourself known as willing and available to other team managers so that you might get an opportunity to move into a different team and away from you current manager? As the saying goes people often leave managers, not companies...

Sorry, I meant get something internally. It’s a very large multinational and possible to move from area to area.

stoneill

Terrontress wrote: »

Hi folks, I met my director, expressed my concerns with how I am being managed, and how the past year had proceeded.

She agreed to increase my performance rating from 'met most' to 'met all'. 3 out of 5 instead of 2.

This has a positive outcome in terms of bonus and my pay rise for the next twelve months. Also, the rating isn't on my record, so won't have a negative impact on looking for a new role internally.

I think the director, in an attempt not to undermine my manager, is phrasing it that she feels procedures weren't followed and, as a result, is happy to increase the rating due to that, which means she does not undermine my boss's decision either. I said that I am not happy with this, as I do not feel I deserved the rating, but that as there is no financial or reputational impact, I will not continue to push it.

My intention is to keep my head down, do what I am told and apply for something else prior to the next review.

Also if I were you I would have regular 1:1 meeting during the year to discuss performance, and document everything.